New K-series DSLR under development to be exhibited

lhsms2 · 09-26-2019, 07:15 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by alfa75ts

Same provisos as to scale, much easier on a cutaway.

This version of a hybrid viewfinder doesn't seem to fit.

Usually, these drawings are drawn with magnification or exaggeration of key points.

The important point is that the previous indicators were straight, but the hybrid viewfinder did not come out in front of the condenser lens.

This is consistent with the new body's head not sticking out more than before.

---------- Post added 09-26-19 at 07:22 PM ----------

Originally posted by BROO

Thanks lhsms2

Would you be able to summarize some of this and explain how it relates to the new ASP-C flagship?

1. Contrast af patent using light meter

2. Patent of pentaprism with small phase difference between s-polarized light and p-polarized light with large incident angle
-Patent for 1

3. Patented matte screen that can increase the amount of light by applying a specific pattern
-Patent for 1

4. Half mirror device patent with little color change

5. Patent to simplify and miniaturize quick return mirror shock absorber

6. Patented modified mirror structure to reduce mirror driving speed

I don't know which of these apply~~

Zephos · 09-26-2019, 07:26 PM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by PJ1

We will just have to agree to disagree on that.

Not sure how you disagree with it right here in the picture. See the curved lip? The notch you are seeing is just the inside surface of the lip. It can't possibly curve out like this AND notch inward. Pretty hard evidence if you ask me. I mean seriously, where did all these blind photographers come from?

**alfa75ts** · 09-26-2019, 07:35 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by Zephos

The notch

We can always add eyewitness testimony:

Originally posted by Albert Siegel

I can confirm that the little notch in the photo is an illusion due to the angle and light. It's actually going out rather than in and under the screen (the right panel extends out). This in-develpment model does not have an articulating screen. Yes, I have seen this in up close in person. Please note that this does not mean the final version will not have it.

**alfa75ts** · 09-26-2019, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by lhsms2

Usually, these drawings are drawn with magnification or exaggeration of key points.

Yes, certainly. Only we don't know what is or isn't exaggerated.

I would say:

The important point is that the previous focus point indicators were straight, the new body's head not sticking out more than before is consistent with their removal.

The shape of the new body does not confirm or deny a hybrid viewfinder.

BROO · 09-26-2019, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by alfa75ts

The shape of the new body does not confirm or deny a hybrid viewfinder.

Yes but it is sufficient to raise ones curiosity?

**alfa75ts** · 09-26-2019, 07:59 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BROO

Yes but it is sufficient to raise ones curiosity?

Yes, but if not for the hybrid viewfinder patent the change would be sufficiently explained by an LCD overlay and GPS.

At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder.

BROO · 09-26-2019, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by alfa75ts

At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder.

I couldn't agree more.

stevebrot · 09-26-2019, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by alfa75ts

Yes, but if not for the hybrid viewfinder patent the change would be sufficiently explained by an LCD overlay and GPS.

At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder.

Agreed...

Note too that the patent concerns both an overlay behavior (mirror down) as well as as a mirror-up behavior. My feeling is that we may see the overlay to support focus point selection (note there is another patent for enhanced presentation of such).

It should also be noted that most patents are protective in nature toward potential development and are not indicative of proven concept. A replacement display such as described would come at a price, that of having a partially silvered surface on the prism with resultant decrease in performance as an OVF. Whether the result is satisfactory is hard to envision.

Steve

**PJ1** · 09-26-2019, 08:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zephos

See the curved lip?

Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round. It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen.

The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough.

Fogel70 · 09-26-2019, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by PJ1

Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round.

You will see the same shape on the top too, but the image would have to be captured from below for you to see it. And then you would not see the shape at the bottom instead.

Quote:

It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen.

The thing is that they did not reshape the back, they re-used much of it from tbe K3 design, which explains why it looks like it do.

Quote:

The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough.[

There us a simple explanation for this. The design is like this because they re-used much of the design on the back from K3, but the prototype has a wider screen than on K3. So to be able to fit the screen they choosed this design.

There is no air gap between screen and body it is just the the screen is flush with the back. So it looks worse than it is.

Don't forget that this is a prototype, so the design may not be finished, and there may be many details they need to fine tune before the production of the camera start.

Zephos · 09-26-2019, 10:40 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PJ1

Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round. It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen.

The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough.

You are still looking at the image that is misleading, because of the perspective. It is an optical illusion, but all you are seeing is the horizontal surface inside the curve. This image is more clear:

**PJ1** · 09-27-2019, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Zephos

It is an optical illusion

We see it differently. That's all. Personally, I don't care how anyone else views it. I have no more to say.

Kunzite · 09-27-2019, 02:03 AM - **8 Likes**

One can stubbornly argue that the water is dry. Just don't blame the water company for delivering wet water.

**Serkevan** · 09-27-2019, 02:12 AM - **2 Likes**

The model they have shown evidently has a fixed screen as there is no mechanically sound way to make it pivot (unless it's spring loaded but that would be awkward to say the least). However, I'm still irked by the the top and back plates *clearly* not being flush with each other at the left back corner. There's a ledge there ~~for picking up grub~~ that is most likely indicative of the good old "one piece is final, the other is not". I'm betting on some changes to the outer shell from now to final production.

I still think that until we see the final product any and all discussions here are academic at best.

**gaweidert** · 09-27-2019, 04:56 AM - **4 Likes**

This camera is, no doubt, and engineering model. Probably custom made in a model shop. Since everyone knows how to make a flip out screen it is not necessary to have one on an early engineering model. They are testing other technologies and are more interested in that than a flippy screen. In another life in the ancient days I used to test engineering models for a living so this is where I am coming from.

FWIW, I even see a crack in the body in the area that everyone is speculating about. What is the significance of that?

09-26-2019, 08:16 PM	#1178
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by alfa75ts Yes, but if not for the hybrid viewfinder patent the change would be sufficiently explained by an LCD overlay and GPS. At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder. Agreed... Note too that the patent concerns both an overlay behavior (mirror down) as well as as a mirror-up behavior. My feeling is that we may see the overlay to support focus point selection (note there is another patent for enhanced presentation of such). It should also be noted that most patents are protective in nature toward potential development and are not indicative of proven concept. A replacement display such as described would come at a price, that of having a partially silvered surface on the prism with resultant decrease in performance as an OVF. Whether the result is satisfactory is hard to envision. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 09-27-2019 at 10:57 AM.

09-26-2019, 09:31 PM	#1180
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by PJ1 Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round. You will see the same shape on the top too, but the image would have to be captured from below for you to see it. And then you would not see the shape at the bottom instead. Quote: It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen. The thing is that they did not reshape the back, they re-used much of it from tbe K3 design, which explains why it looks like it do. Quote: The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough.[ There us a simple explanation for this. The design is like this because they re-used much of the design on the back from K3, but the prototype has a wider screen than on K3. So to be able to fit the screen they choosed this design. There is no air gap between screen and body it is just the the screen is flush with the back. So it looks worse than it is. Don't forget that this is a prototype, so the design may not be finished, and there may be many details they need to fine tune before the production of the camera start. Last edited by Fogel70; 09-26-2019 at 09:58 PM.

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09-26-2019, 07:15 PM - 4 Likes	#1171
lhsms2 New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 20	Originally posted by alfa75ts Same provisos as to scale, much easier on a cutaway. This version of a hybrid viewfinder doesn't seem to fit. Usually, these drawings are drawn with magnification or exaggeration of key points. The important point is that the previous indicators were straight, but the hybrid viewfinder did not come out in front of the condenser lens. This is consistent with the new body's head not sticking out more than before. ---------- Post added 09-26-19 at 07:22 PM ---------- Originally posted by BROO Thanks lhsms2 Would you be able to summarize some of this and explain how it relates to the new ASP-C flagship? 1. Contrast af patent using light meter 2. Patent of pentaprism with small phase difference between s-polarized light and p-polarized light with large incident angle -Patent for 1 3. Patented matte screen that can increase the amount of light by applying a specific pattern -Patent for 1 4. Half mirror device patent with little color change 5. Patent to simplify and miniaturize quick return mirror shock absorber 6. Patented modified mirror structure to reduce mirror driving speed I don't know which of these apply~~

09-26-2019, 07:26 PM - 5 Likes	#1172
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341	Originally posted by PJ1 We will just have to agree to disagree on that. Not sure how you disagree with it right here in the picture. See the curved lip? The notch you are seeing is just the inside surface of the lip. It can't possibly curve out like this AND notch inward. Pretty hard evidence if you ask me. I mean seriously, where did all these blind photographers come from?

09-26-2019, 07:35 PM - 4 Likes	#1173
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by Zephos The notch We can always add eyewitness testimony: Originally posted by Albert Siegel I can confirm that the little notch in the photo is an illusion due to the angle and light. It's actually going out rather than in and under the screen (the right panel extends out). This in-develpment model does not have an articulating screen. Yes, I have seen this in up close in person. Please note that this does not mean the final version will not have it.

09-26-2019, 07:44 PM	#1174
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by lhsms2 Usually, these drawings are drawn with magnification or exaggeration of key points. Yes, certainly. Only we don't know what is or isn't exaggerated. I would say: The important point is that the previous focus point indicators were straight, the new body's head not sticking out more than before is consistent with their removal. The shape of the new body does not confirm or deny a hybrid viewfinder.

09-26-2019, 07:51 PM	#1175
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655	Originally posted by alfa75ts The shape of the new body does not confirm or deny a hybrid viewfinder. Yes but it is sufficient to raise ones curiosity?

09-26-2019, 07:59 PM - 1 Like	#1176
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by BROO Yes but it is sufficient to raise ones curiosity? Yes, but if not for the hybrid viewfinder patent the change would be sufficiently explained by an LCD overlay and GPS. At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder.

09-26-2019, 08:15 PM	#1177
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655	Originally posted by alfa75ts At this point it is my firm opinion that there may or may not be a hybrid viewfinder. I couldn't agree more.

09-26-2019, 08:47 PM - 1 Like	#1179
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,484	Originally posted by Zephos See the curved lip? Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round. It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen. The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough.

09-26-2019, 10:40 PM - 1 Like	#1181
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341	Originally posted by PJ1 Exactly. The same curve is at the top, but they didn't re-shape the screen surround there. It just curves down cleanly to meet the screen with a small air gap (as it does all the way round. It would do the same at the bottom but they chose to reshape the back plate and reshape the base plate as well. It looks to me like there is a air gap between the screen and the body. How deep that goes, I wouldn't know. But it would not seem a smart design for a fixed screen. The image below is the evidence I see with eyes. I don't know why they chose to design the bottom right corner this way. But they did. And all I know is what I can see. I don't think it is worth debating further. We will know soon enough. You are still looking at the image that is misleading, because of the perspective. It is an optical illusion, but all you are seeing is the horizontal surface inside the curve. This image is more clear:

09-27-2019, 01:14 AM	#1182
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,484	Originally posted by Zephos It is an optical illusion We see it differently. That's all. Personally, I don't care how anyone else views it. I have no more to say.

09-27-2019, 02:03 AM - 8 Likes	#1183
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	One can stubbornly argue that the water is dry. Just don't blame the water company for delivering wet water.

09-27-2019, 02:12 AM - 2 Likes	#1184
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	The model they have shown evidently has a fixed screen as there is no mechanically sound way to make it pivot (unless it's spring loaded but that would be awkward to say the least). However, I'm still irked by the the top and back plates clearly not being flush with each other at the left back corner. There's a ledge there ~~for picking up grub~~ that is most likely indicative of the good old "one piece is final, the other is not". I'm betting on some changes to the outer shell from now to final production. I still think that until we see the final product any and all discussions here are academic at best.

09-27-2019, 04:56 AM - 4 Likes	#1185
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	This camera is, no doubt, and engineering model. Probably custom made in a model shop. Since everyone knows how to make a flip out screen it is not necessary to have one on an early engineering model. They are testing other technologies and are more interested in that than a flippy screen. In another life in the ancient days I used to test engineering models for a living so this is where I am coming from. FWIW, I even see a crack in the body in the area that everyone is speculating about. What is the significance of that?