[Class A]

The video behaviour is a bit weird, like you don't get focus peaking when it starts recording, the image still crops when you turn off the software SR, the image is generally soft, the low bitrate can't handle busy scenes, limited framerates etc.

I'm pretty sure all that is due to Ricoh saving money on the Fujitsu chip they are using.
The model they are using is most likely not capable of doing all these things at the same time.

It seems like Ricoh are prioritising a competitive price for a stills camera over having great video capabilities.
Personally, I don't fault them.

Ideally, they'd offer a stills photographer only camera (without a mic and headphone jack and the corresponding electronics) and a video-capable model as an alternative. Then the people interested in video could sponsor all the investment that is necessary to support good video. Note that Panasonic are charging for the firmware upgrade that makes the S1 more capable in terms of video specs, so it's not like anyone hasn't thought of such a two-tiered approach before.

Just because other manufacturers let everyone pay for video specs that some don't use at all, shouldn't mean that Ricoh has to play the same game.

BTW, I guess that limited processing power is also the reason why SR isn't available during video anymore.
I think the explanation given by Ricoh that the movement is audible is pretty terrible. Serious video users employ external mics anyhow and at worst one could just dub the footage with a soundtrack and only use the SR for such shots.

Since SR appears to be working fine during live view, it probably isn't a matter of SR working well only for "one time shot actuation", hence my assumption that there isn't enough processing power to handle video recording and SR at the same time.

... so it would be nice to see it get some imporved AF tracking. Must be some reason to add a thumbstick control?

The joystick is probably there to support navigation to a larger number of AF areas. There is a wider "intake" for the AF module which suggests that AF coverage of the frame will be much larger than usual (there is no reason it couldn't be as large as the AF coverage of the K-1 in APS-C mode). It would make sense to accompany such an upgrade with an increase of AF areas.

This does not necessarily imply better AF tracking (AF-C) performance. However, one would hope that they were able to make advances in that area.

My only issue with it would be the number of times I've taken group photos and found the hedge in the background is in focus and the people I aimed at are not.

Have you tried using the "Spot AF" mode? It uses a smaller AF area than the "Single AF point" mode (although it doesn't look like that in the viewfinder). This may help with precisely aiming at a person.

Just not sure how you bring these mirrorless/mobile phone type smarts to the DSLR focussing system approach?

The Nikon D500 already supports face detect while one uses the optical viewfinder. They are employing a metering chip that has a higher resolution than what is needed for metering alone. The current 86K metering chip in recent Pentax cameras won't do the trick but the D500 chip only has ~1.5 more resolution and there are cameras with even better resolving metering chips, so it seems at least possible from a technical point of view for Ricoh to support face detection (even when not using live view).

[BROO]

if audible noise is the only reason it was removed during video, I'd much prefer this to be a menu option I could then re enable.

My gut feeling is it may be more to do with heat generation. Basically the IBIS would need to be active for the entirety of the video. Possibly this could effect the heat build up within the camera which may be considered unacceptable for quality and longevity of the components?

[richandfleur]

My gut feeling is it may be more to do with heat generation. Basically the IBIS would need to be active for the entirety of the video. Possibly this could effect the heat build up within the camera which may be considered unacceptable for quality and longevity of the components?

Agree. That’s my thought too, although it’s worth mentioning that everyone else seems to be able to get this to work, and it’s probably working in live view already? Pentax did have this working on the K-5 but may have changed the SR mechanism in subsequent models.

[Class A]

Pentax did have this working on the K-5 but may have changed the SR mechanism in subsequent models.

Did you read my previous post in full?
You may have stopped after I suggested that video users should pay for the hardware necessary.

I included a tip for potentially improving your AF results at the end, so perhaps read at least that bit.

[richandfleur]

I'm pretty sure all that is due to Ricoh saving money on the Fujitsu chip they are using.

Have you tried using the "Spot AF" mode? It uses a smaller AF area than the "Single AF point" mode (although it doesn't look like that in the viewfinder). This may help with precisely aiming at a person.


The Nikon D500 already supports face detect while one uses the optical viewfinder. They are employing a metering chip that has a higher resolution than what is needed for metering alone. The current 86K metering chip in recent Pentax cameras won't do the trick but the D500 chip only has ~1.5 more resolution and there are cameras with even better resolving metering chips, so it seems at least possible from a technical point of view for Ricoh to support face detection (even when not using live view).

Agree re older/lower cost chipset. I would hope this has improved a bit in a 2020 release camera though. Two different camera models (just one with mic input / headphone jacks and one without costs more than including it all in one). Don’t mind paying for pro video capability upgrades separately, but you’ll find all cameras base video specs are now far ahead of what Pentax is offering (almost unchanged from 2012!) in 2019/2020

Yes I always use single centre spot focus for this type of shot. I only use continuous AF and extended auto segment tracking when I’m shooting action like runners.

Sounds like a smart approach there from Nikon. Cool to see this type of feature ported to a DSLR one way or another.

[Class A]

Yes I always use single centre spot focus for this type of shot.

Just to make sure: We are not taking about the "single point" focus mode with the centre point selected, right?
There is a specific "spot" mode that won't let you move the AF area around but supports a narrower AF area.

[richandfleur]

Just to make sure: We are not taking about the "single point" focus mode with the centre point selected, right?
There is a specific "spot" mode that won't let you move the AF area around but supports a narrower AF area.

Can you point me to an example somewhere, so we’re both on the same page?

Cheers

[Class A]

Two different camera models (just one with mic input / headphone jacks and one without costs more than including it all in one).

Of course there is added cost to maintaining two different models but there can also be no doubt that there is a cost to developing great video specs and there may even be licensing fees for some of the formats.

The "one camera for all" approach necessarily increases the price for those who do not need the video features. It may also mean that they have to suffer from compromises necessary for good video, e.g., higher noise levels because faster read out speeds are required for video, or striping and banding because people like to see AF supported during video.

As a result, I don't think it is neither fair nor optimal to sell a "one size fits all camera". At the very least, some of the cost associated with video should be retrieved from video users only (e.g., through respective paid firmware versions) but ideally there shouldn't be hardware compromises in still photography cameras just because some use them for video purposes.

I do not agree with DPReview's approach of expecting video from every camera. It makes as much sense as adding "We didn't like the default JPEG settings." to the cons list of a $1000+ camera (in particular while conceding that great options exist to adjust the JPEG settings).

[Class A]

Can you point me to an example somewhere, so we’re both on the same page?

On page 52 of the K-1 manual you'll find that the last AF mode ("Spot") is different to the third ("Select") mode.

Sadly the manual doesn't explain the advantages of choosing "Spot" over "Select" but I'm positive that I've read somewhere that the former implies a smaller AF area.

[richandfleur]

Of course there is added cost to maintaining two different models but there can also be no doubt that there is a cost to developing great video specs and there may even be licensing fees for some of the formats.

The "one camera for all" approach necessarily increases the price for those who do not need the video features. It may also mean that they have to suffer from compromises necessary for good video, e.g., higher noise levels because faster read out speeds are required for video, or striping and banding because people like to see AF supported during video.

As a result, I don't think it is neither fair nor optimal to sell a "one size fits all camera". At the very least, some of the cost associated with video should be retrieved from video users only (e.g., through respective paid firmware versions) but ideally there shouldn't be hardware compromises in still photography cameras just because some use them for video purposes.

I do not agree with DPReview's approach of expecting video from every camera. It makes as much sense as adding "We didn't like the default JPEG settings." to the cons list of a $1000+ camera (in particular while conceding that great options exist to adjust the JPEG settings).

I think you’re over complicating the requirements for base level video capabilities.

Dragging the current 2012 offering up to 2016 specs should not be that hard. Frame rates to support 1080p at 60fps and an increase in bitrate like the KP received.

Has anyone with a K-70 experienced negative effects that they’re deeply disappointed about by the inclusion of Pentax on sensor AF points?

---------- Post added 09-30-19 at 05:04 PM ----------

On page 52 of the K-1 manual you'll find that the last AF mode ("Spot") is different to the third ("Select") mode.

Sadly the manual doesn't explain the advantages of choosing "Spot" over "Select" but I'm positive that I've read somewhere that the former implies a smaller AF area.

Thanks; I’ll go and check it out and see if it’s available on my K-3.

[reh321]

Another side conversation, but Pentax focus is actually pretty good. They may sacrifice some speed but the end result is bang on. My only issue with it would be the number of times I've taken group photos and found the hedge in the background is in focus and the people I aimed at are not. Some smarts in these types of situations would be appreciated. Just not sure how you bring these mirrorless/mobile phone type smarts to the DSLR focusing system approach?

Did you look at the scene before you pressed the shutter? On very rare occasion my Pentax camera has focused on background instead of a substantial subject, but every time I've been able to adjust it so that it sees things my way.

[richandfleur]

Did you look at the scene before you pressed the shutter? On very rare occasion my Pentax camera has focused on background instead of a substantial subject, but every time I've been able to adjust it so that it sees things my way.

I’ve not found the APS-C viewfinder very clear for this sort of thing. Not sure what the K-1 viewfinder is like, but I hope it’s glorious.

[repaap]

I’ve not found the APS-C viewfinder very clear for this sort of thing. Not sure what the K-1 viewfinder is like, but I hope it’s glorious.

I have created technique on this. How to make people in focus, and just because I know how it behaves(k-1/-3). Continuoisly move the camera a bit just in order to make sure it lock focus(yes you should see it) and focus on the person you focuse at. Small movement. When it ’finds’ the person it will lock, untill they move.

It seems that with tighter focus area, old system(K-1 included) focuses: a) brighters source b) towards infinity. With larger groups of focuspoints default is to focus closer up. Bizengineer brought this up.

Niw what class A says it is different thing all together. I’v used spot focuspoint too, but that moving camera about and making sure that you have right thing in focus, is needed. For example I have taken lot of pictures of my daughter. She still has the ’peacemaker’ in her mouth time to time. My K-1 love to focus on that, because it is brighter than her face. There is clear contrast too.

Other thing would be that you use button to accuiere focus, not by halfpress. My k-7 was unusable with out that technique, K-3 was okayish but K-1 is working quite well with halfpress. If you know what to keep an eye on, where it usually ’fails’. Good technique is the way to go

[Rondec]

With regard to video, I think it is clear that there have been a couple of issues. One of the big ones is that Pentax uses older sensors that don't have the read out speeds necessary for higher levels of video performance and their processing engine is pretty old too and probably can't handle high bit rate of video either. As to the whole issue with mechanical IBIS in video, it is hard to say. Certainly it could be added noise. I noticed it on the K5 when shooting video with it on and using the internal mic. It could be heat, although I sort of doubt it. The thing is that you can use live view with IBIS on for extend lengths of time without shutting things down due to excessive heat.

I think the one thing that we can safely say is that video has not been a priority for Pentax and while they will continue to include it in their cameras, I doubt it will become a priority for them in the future. They make still cameras that happen to shoot video. They are OK for short clips but I wouldn't shoot a production video with one.

As far as getting people in focus, one option is really to use live view with the face recognition focus. It really does work well and doesn't grab the background. I know a lot of people don't like to use live view, but it is a tool that can be helpful sometimes.

[MarkJerling]

I’ve not found the APS-C viewfinder very clear for this sort of thing. Not sure what the K-1 viewfinder is like, but I hope it’s glorious.

The K-1's viewfinder is, indeed, very clear and, in my view, a big step up from the APS-C viewfinders.