[stevebrot]

Well, bummeroony! The picture shows the truth of the "notch".

It looks like it might catch dirt.


Steve

[Larrymc]

That's sorta the plan... but what if I did something really crazy and sell my K-3 ii and legacy glass and go all-in with the new Pentax + DFA 150-450 + 100 Macro - I have all the DA Ltd primes - and roll with that?

It actually is a thought.

Sounds like a plan!

[stevebrot]

Good summary, Steve.

I'll add that it also appears to have an IR sensor at the rear...

Oh! I see it now! I will edit!


Steve

[stevebrot]

To quote (with a few liberties) a statement from a famous U.S. bureaucrat:

Quote:
Reports regarding new product features are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our great brand and other great brands, it is always the known knows of those others that has vexed us more acutely.

There is an additional category not included in the quote, but which is pertinent to this discussion:

Unknown knowns: Those things which are known or knowable, but which are intentionally or subconsciously ignored because they are unthinkable, inconvenient, or contrary to prevailing doctrine or desire.*

Steve

* I know, probably best stated as "what we do not like to know".

---

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-22-2019 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Correction of term

[Zivelot]

Smart move to use the K-1's proven ergonomic design with their flagship APS-C camera. Hopefully they use the time and money saved from design to improve AF.

[Winder]

It would seem to me that macro shooters would favor APS-C for the same reason birders or sports/action shooters would too. That being able to fill the image/sensor with more of subject without losing pixels by cropping the final image. Macro shooters will probably agree what a godsend flippy/articulated screens are. Lack of a movable screen would probably more a weight/size/cost decision rather than intended market.

M4/3 would be even better. The Olympus OMD EM-1 II has in camera focus stacking for some great macro work.





---------- Post added 09-22-19 at 02:26 PM ----------

Smart move to use the K-1's proven ergonomic design with their flagship APS-C camera. Hopefully they use the time and money saved from design to improve AF.

AF is the million dollar question mark. Ricoh solves that and they are golden.

[reh321]

No firm timeline given and I would not trust one if they did as they never seem to meet their timelines. :-) I will just trust them at their word of it being worth the wait. They really seem super excited about it, so I have a good feeling that those of us waiting to upgrade will be rewarded.

Any idea what kind of people you were talking to - the 'excited' people?

[reh321]

Smart move to use the K-1's proven ergonomic design with their flagship APS-C camera. Hopefully they use the time and money saved from design to improve AF.

I've been hoping they would use the same general design - the same 'look' - for all their cameras. Good marketing to have a family resemblance.

[TwoUptons]

The known knowns are as follows:

• It has buttons and dials, many of which are familiar
• Some buttons which we also know are not there
• It has a K-mount (physically, KAF2)
• It has a mirror and a focus screen
• It also has unfamiliar somethings under the mirror and reflected in the mirror
• It is fat under the mount
• It is fat in the prism housing
• There is very little projection of the prism housing at the front
• It is deep in the eyepiece area
• It has an unlabeled button
• The screen is flat with no obvious frame or provision for pop-out
• There is no obvious built-in flash
• We can't see the bottom
• The viewfinder eyepiece reflects yellowish in one picture, but not in others
• The body is similar in size to the K-3/K-3II
• It has an APS-C sensor
• It has fittings for HDMI, microphone, headphone, USB, wired remote, and PC sync
• It has the standard Pentax digital protocol hot shoe
• It has apparent AF assist lamp
• There is no obvious evidence of support for an apparent IR remote sensor on the rear and possible on the front (shared with the self-timer LED as on the K-3)
• There is an apparent joystick
• There is an sensor of some sort below the eyepiece

Everything else...we don't know; regardless of how important, needed, essential, hoped for, must have, foolish not to have, or obvious-to-anyone-with-a-brain a feature might seem.


Steve

We can’t see the bottom because that would reveal the film door.

Pentax is taking us retro...
It will shoot APS-C, APS-H, and panoramic, perhaps...

But don’t ask me who will be making the APS film for them...


-Eric

[Zivelot]

I've been hoping they would use the same general design - the same 'look' - for all their cameras. Good marketing to have a family resemblance.

My would-be brother in law is an established wedding and state event photorgapher in Hungary. He uses a Canon EOS 1D mkII and a 6D. When he picked up my K-1 the first time all he said was: Bloody hell mate, it is a solid beast. (He never had a chance before to handle a Pentax camera).
He also said that it is an unusual design in a good way and makes a lot of sense.

[teiki arii]

My would-be brother in law is an established wedding and state event photorgapher in Hungary. He uses a Canon EOS 1D mkII and a 6D. When he picked up my K-1 the first time all he said was: Bloody hell mate, it is a solid beast. (He never had a chance before to handle a Pentax camera).
He also said that it is an unusual design in a good way and makes a lot of sense.

I had two Canon EOS 6D and IMHO, the Canon EOS 6D was the best FF camera Canon has ever made under 30Mp. Much cheaper low-cost material for the Canon EOS 6D however, much better OVF, IBIS and better for manual focus with the K-1 without speaking of the 36Mp Sony sensor with a Pentax touch...
I hope the new APS-C DSLR camera will serve as a laboratory for the next FF camera design...

[RGlasel]

But don’t ask me who will be making the APS film for them...

That is the easy part, any standard sized 35mm film(with a height of 24mm) will work, the H and P modes are pre-cropped on the film roll.

I'll say one more time that what was exhibited is a working prototype, with a one-off body shell and control layout, built to test components and functions that may never see the light of day in a production model. In a normal situation, Ricoh would be presenting mockups with either exotic teasers (like wooden grips and biker gear) to test market features or something very close to the final form factor minus functional clues for new features, to keep their powder dry for an actual product launch or in case the specifications are changed later. If this camera was ready for production, we would have a definite release date to coordinate the product launch against, along with a trademarked model name.

If the K-1, D500 and 6D Mk ii have some fashion of moveable rear screen, any new flagship Pentax DSLR that becomes available for purchase will have some fashion of moveable rear screen. There is no plausible reason to go back to fixed rear displays. Every Pentax camera is a niche model, why would Ricoh limit the sales potential for a new model (that we have been waiting for years to see) by limiting its appeal to only one type of photography?

What's really important about this working Pentax prototype is the name on it (no point in putting Pentax on a prototype unless you want to send a message) and that we are shown enough of the mirror box, prism housing and viewfinder to know that these components are very different from the K-3ii it will replace. Giving hints to asahiman to look at the mirror is part of the strategy to get us looking in the right places. The people behind this prototype are doing their darndest to get approval from their paymasters to turn this prototype into a production model, but that decision has not been made yet.

[Rondec]

That is the easy part, any standard sized 35mm film(with a height of 24mm) will work, the H and P modes are pre-cropped on the film roll.

I'll say one more time that what was exhibited is a working prototype, with a one-off body shell and control layout, built to test components and functions that may never see the light of day in a production model. In a normal situation, Ricoh would be presenting mockups with either exotic teasers (like wooden grips and biker gear) to test market features or something very close to the final form factor minus functional clues for new features, to keep their powder dry for an actual product launch or in case the specifications are changed later. If this camera was ready for production, we would have a definite release date to coordinate the product launch against, along with a trademarked model name.

If the K-1, D500 and 6D Mk ii have some fashion of moveable rear screen, any new flagship Pentax DSLR that becomes available for purchase will have some fashion of moveable rear screen. There is no plausible reason to go back to fixed rear displays. Every Pentax camera is a niche model, why would Ricoh limit the sales potential for a new model (that we have been waiting for years to see) by limiting its appeal to only one type of photography?

What's really important about this working Pentax prototype is the name on it (no point in putting Pentax on a prototype unless you want to send a message) and that we are shown enough of the mirror box, prism housing and viewfinder to know that these components are very different from the K-3ii it will replace. Giving hints to asahiman to look at the mirror is part of the strategy to get us looking in the right places. The people behind this prototype are doing their darndest to get approval from their paymasters to turn this prototype into a production model, but that decision has not been made yet.

I think you are right.

Pentax pays at least a little bit of attention to this Forum and they realized that people are getting really nervous about their future. They therefore took the unusual step of showing us "nothing." A camera that is semi-functional that we can't use, no hint as to details, specs or anything. And with this black object that is not yet completed, we have the one thing that we need most around here, HOPE.

Hope that Pentax cares about the K mount and SLRs. Hope that Pentax cares about making a better APS-C camera. Hope that none of us will need to buy a Sony camera in order to keep shooting our lenses.

Even if the end camera looks very different and has pretty average specs, we have, for the first time in several months solid, tangible evidence that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[stevebrot]

I'll say one more time that what was exhibited is a working prototype, with a one-off body shell and control layout, built to test components and functions that may never see the light of day in a production model.

My thinking is that what was shown is a little too slick for a traditional "mule" and is probably feature-complete on a production chassis for the inside stuff that counts and which would require rigorous field testing. I also think that the basic body form (protrusions and such) is correct, but that the production parts will be more refined and sculpted and actually look like they are not made of plastic. There is also the matter of fit;what we see in the photos reminds me of a 1973 GM product.

As far as the hints and Asahi Man...I noticed the different stuff in the mirror box on the first set of larger photos two days ago. Yes, there are some things hiding there.


Steve

[Larrymc]

The people behind this prototype are doing their darndest to get approval from their paymasters to turn this prototype into a production model, but that decision has not been made yet.

Now how in the heck do you know this? It may be much further along than than you think, neither you nor I have any way of knowing any of this. Is this some sort of W.A.G. or maybe a S.W.A.G.?