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09-22-2019, 05:21 PM - 2 Likes   #766
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No one has accounted for the blank button on the far upper left of the back of the body. Additionally, a function dial with only three selections is a bit of an over kill I think that small function dial does other functions that they aren't ready to reveal at this time, they just stuck a cover on it with LV, Movie and Still functions.

09-22-2019, 05:25 PM - 1 Like   #767
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Not that the two options exclude each other, but Ricoh has implemented an LCD overlay before so it seems plausible that they would use that technology again whereas a hybrid viewfinder would be very revolutionary (for a DSLR).
There may be some confusion of terms in regards to "hybrid" viewfinder. My take is that users on this site would desire the option to have a zoom-capable OLED display driven from the image sensor, something fully equivalent to what is found in the better mirrorless offerings. Such a display would be activated when switching to live view to allow for the full-on mirrorless experience on a native K-mount camera.

When I reviewed the Ricoh patents, it appears they are talking about projection of specific electronically generated information to supplement or replace an overlay in the manner of the heads-up displays found in some cars and aircraft. Both are "hybrid" viewfinders, but in a very different sense of the term. Pages might be written concerning why seeing both the reflex view and a high density OLED through the same ocular is something where an implementation might be about as practical as the dual waist-level/eye-level display featured by the late-1960s Ricoh TLS 401.* To be concise, it sort of sucked.


Steve

* The name referred to the two-way viewfinder along with both spot and average metering. The former was implemented with a penta-mirror set up and the latter, a pellicle main mirror with the meter cells located in the mirror box. The combination resulted in a very dim viewfinder.

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-22-2019 at 05:34 PM.
09-22-2019, 05:30 PM   #768
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
All the indicators are there, Mark. The screen will be movable in some way. It is a no brainer that they would not release a flagship model without some kind of flip/articulate/remove or whatever screen. As you say, this body is very close to release. The shadow lines indicate that the rear of the camera goes in under the screen. The little notch would not be there on an ''almost there" prototype without a reason (and not just to collect grunge!! And look at the LCD. The framing margin is much wider on the left than on the right. Why? That could house a connecting mechanism or battery/wifi for a removable OLED screen. As you say, it is too slick for a one-off prototype, so these details all point to something - and they point one way.
I agree, it seems odd to go back to a fixed screen. All I'm saying is that it would not bother me personally. And, that framing of the margins of the screen is a little strange. We'll have to wait and see!
09-22-2019, 05:34 PM   #769
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
As someone who uses the K-1's rear lcd all the time I would view it as a deal breaker. Of course aps-c is also a deal breaker for me. Since Ricoh has a number of camera's (k-s2 k-70 KP, K-1 645z) with movable screen and weather sealing. How is weather sealing an issue here?
Maybe that part of this camera is unfinished? I don't know. One thing I find interesting is the depth of the body which seems deeper front to back than previous models. So, maybe they have found a way to integrate a swivel screen more effectively.

09-22-2019, 05:35 PM - 2 Likes   #770
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QuoteOriginally posted by alfa75ts Quote
Wait for the MK.II
That would require an alternative way to select the fundamental operation mode, though.

It seems impossible for more options on that dial to be simply hidden now and an alternative use of the dial in the future would imply an alternative way of selecting the fundamental operation mode (with the undesirable consequence that users would have to adapt to a new way of selecting the fundamental operation mode).

The current options are three modes of which one always needs to be active. It would not make sense for the dial to be in any (to be revealed) additional position. While theoretically possible -- pressing a modifier button could allow one to move out of "LV" without activating "stills" or "movie" mode -- more options would create an undesirable interaction paradigm and would destroy the ability to check with one glance which mode the camera is in (whether it is turned on or off).

Such a large dial seems overkill for selecting between three modes but unless it was initially planned to be used differently but then had to be retained, I guess the idea is that mode change is really given that importance. Personally, I'd replace the "lock/unlock" selector under the mode selection dial with a fundamental operation mode selector and find another way to permanently unlock the mode selector lock (or just omit the whole locking mechanism; A changed mode selector never ever tripped me up).

Last edited by Class A; 09-22-2019 at 05:59 PM.
09-22-2019, 05:40 PM   #771
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QuoteOriginally posted by cgchang Quote
On the hopeful side, remember this is what the K-1 looked like when first teased at CP+ 2015. No extra dials on top and a "maybe/maybe not" articulating screen of some kind. It was a 3D print mockup rather than a polished material prototype though.

This was a 3d model
09-22-2019, 05:41 PM   #772
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
I think that small function dial does other functions that they aren't ready to reveal at this time, they just stuck a cover on it with LV, Movie and Still functions.
In my previous post I argue that it wouldn't be sensible to add further options to the dial if it indeed is meant to select the fundamental operation mode.

If we are going to see more options on that particular dial, I believe that the "Stills", "LV", and "Movie" selection would have to implemented differently which would imply that Ricoh would be misdirecting us with the current labels (which is much less likely than "lying" by omission).

09-22-2019, 05:42 PM   #773
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Such a large dial seems overkill for selecting between three modes
Ya think? On the K-1, it was handled with a 3-way thumb switch.


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09-22-2019, 05:47 PM   #774
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The hardware may be close to being done, but the software likely isn't. So the modes and how they are operated is still in flux.

As is, it looks like you select one of the three modes; live view, viewfinder and movie. The S.fn or select function button you press to scroll through a list, and use the third dial to toggle or set values. The large top screen is capable of showing enough information to do this. Or scroll with the third dial through the configuration options, hit select function, then dial to change value, select function to save setting.

Another possiblility is the S.Fn button toggles some function; two AF point selections, single multiple shots, whatever. The positioning of the button making it useful when you have your eye to the viewfinder would indicate some on the fly configuration purpose. I would really like to be able to quickly toggle between spot and center weighted metering.

I would like three sets of user modes or the ability to go to movie mode or live view in a user mode. I have an electronic shutter mode, which only works in live view so to select that mode requires two actions. But if I have 5 user modes for live view, 5 for viewfinder and 5 for movie, that would be cool.

Lots of possibilities and all in software. The final print on the buttons waits for the software to be done.
09-22-2019, 05:47 PM - 2 Likes   #775
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Ugh. 50+ pages of endless pointless speculation. Time to boriscleto™ this thread.
09-22-2019, 05:49 PM   #776
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
There may be some confusion of terms in regards to "hybrid" viewfinder.
In terms of implementation challenges, I don't see a big difference between fully replacing the optical view with an electronic one versus overlaying an electronic image (that can change dynamically as opposed to fixed overlay elements) on the optical view.

I think anyone expecting either variant is probably setting themselves up for disappointment. I'm not saying Ricoh would be incapable of doing it, it would just be such a surprise if they did it that it should come as just that: a massive surprise as opposed to a "yeah, that's what we figured all along".
09-22-2019, 05:53 PM   #777
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ya think?
Irony?

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
On the K-1, it was handled with a 3-way thumb switch.
The K-1 has a 2-way thumb switch.

Ideally, it would have been a 3-way switch, allowing the "LV" button to be freed up for something else.
09-22-2019, 05:53 PM   #778
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
That would require an alternative way to select the fundamental operation mode, though.
Yes and no, some people like the surety of a knob over 'did I set that option in the menu?' or perhaps other modes like high speed video or a panorama mode, who knows.

It is also possible that this body is to be used for the next full frame model, changing only the mirror box and motherboard. That would help keep costs down.

The real point is that somebody had what they thought was a good reason for that knob.
09-22-2019, 05:53 PM - 2 Likes   #779
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ya think? On the K-1, it was handled with a 3-way thumb switch...
I think you'll find it is the KP with the 3 way switch - the K1 only has photo/movie option on its switch - the LV mode is with the left most button that has been a point of discussion for its lack of marking on the new prototype.

09-22-2019, 05:56 PM - 2 Likes   #780
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Ugh. 50+ pages of endless pointless speculation. Time to boriscleto™ this thread.
Well what did you expect????
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