New K-series DSLR under development to be exhibited

**Mikesul** · 10-13-2019, 07:04 AM

Yes. There was a time a few years ago when you could get started with high quality Pentax equipment for quite a bit less than the rivals. It really does seem that Pentax has decided it has to abandon that approach to survive.

tvdtvdtvd · 10-13-2019, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by solitudebound

Has any one considered that this development model and subsequent couple small presentations were a means to placate the Pentax fandom and investors without actually making a new camera?

If so, they probably deserve the delay for having built such a detailed model for the ruse.

In other news, John Huston's granddaughter has just found several cans of film in the attic, including an audition of Kirk Douglas
as Neil Armstrong....

tvdtvdtvd · 10-13-2019, 07:46 AM - **6 Likes**

Originally posted by Mikesul

Yes. There was a time a few years ago when you could get started with high quality Pentax equipment for quite a bit less than the rivals. It really does seem that Pentax has decided it has to abandon that approach to survive.

'Abandon' is probably not the most accurate word here. Ricoh are shifting market focus because that bottom end is
eroding away fast. They made the first step in that direction by giving up the entry level compact market for all but the WG series,
and I do believe they were one of the first established brands to do so.

It's not as if Pentax has suddenly leap frogged into Leica price/value territory. The K-1 and KP still represent tremendous value
compared to most anything else on the market and I expect the K-New will as well.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by solitudebound

Has any one considered that this development model and subsequent couple small presentations were a means to placate the Pentax fandom and investors without actually making a new camera? Meanwhile Ricoh's theta development is chugging along.
I'm not doom and glooming Pentax but we did go through similar ups and downs (slow torture) in the decade of waiting for the K-1 (full frame). Sometimes memory is a burden but it would be rather foolish to ignore it.

Just something to think about and no need to start a flaming war on the subject.

Indeed it would be foolish to ignore the lessons of the past. The Pentax K-1 was announced four months after a prototype was showcased under glass and was available two months after its announcement.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by reh321

I have assumed all along that the new “flagship” will not be inexpensive - even the KP was something like $1199 when it first came out, and the “flagship” will be at least several hundred above that, and most likely will come down less and more slowly.

The KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New.

**Belnan** · 10-13-2019, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Indeed, the KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New.

Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by tvdtvdtvd

'Abandon' is probably not the most accurate word here. Ricoh are shifting market focus because that bottom end is
eroding away fast. (...)

It isn't eroding that fast as far as DSLRs are concerned. The average shipping price of DSLRs is going down steadily these days (see CIPA figures). That's because Canon keep on selling tons of EOS Rebel SL3 (EOS 250D / EOS Kiss X10) / EOS Rebel T7 (EOS 2000D) / EOS 4000D. There is however no money to be made with such high-volume, low-margin pieces of equipment and Ricoh have constantly stated they are going for value, not volume.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Belnan

Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one.

Much more than that. Between 2010 and 2020 the SLR market will be divided by four and the K-New represents at least as many, and probably more developments costs to recoup than the K-5.

house · 10-13-2019, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

I think the Z50 is showing Nikon’s take on what it needs to maintain acceptable profit margins with their anticipated sales volume.

To me that’s not a good sign for them... and it suggests the KP was a very well placed model after all...

I am afraid it probably means the new flagship will not be cheap ��

-Eric

I was thinking about the KP when seeing the Z50 as well. Size does differentiate them however. The HD PENTAX-DA 18-50mmF4-5.6 DC WR RE is a tiny collapsible lens but the mirrorless form factor makes the whole package or the Z50 a lot smaller. Again it seems like mirrorless makes the most difference at MF and apsc formats whilst for FF it doesn't make that much difference.

As an aside I just noticed that the collapsible Pentax kit lens has the mtf published at
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/lens/k/standard/hdpentax-da-18-50/
Looks better than I imagined. Haven't heard much chatter about this lens.

reh321 · 10-13-2019, 09:32 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mistral75

The KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New.

Originally posted by Belnan

Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one.

I'm thinking that the KP is the new "intro" APS-C, so the new "flag-ship" APS-C will be several hundred dollars above that - below the K-1ii, but don't assume much below that. In short- I agree with @Mistral75 on this one. Any PF members who have been eagerly awaiting the "K-3ii replacement" while simultaneously thinking "cheap" are going to have to rethink the KP.

house · 10-13-2019, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by reh321

I'm thinking that the KP is the new "intro" APS-C, so the new "flag-ship" APS-C will be several hundred dollars above that - below the K-1ii, but don't assume much below that. In short- I agree with @Mistral75 on this one. Any PF members who have been eagerly awaiting the "K-3ii replacement" while simultaneously thinking "cheap" are going to have to rethink the KP.

As I've said before I think it's a mistake to think in terms of "intro", "enthusiast", "flagship". Instead it makes sense to think of the use case/users for each camera. The previous model was just a ruse to get people to aspire to the most expensive camera. Crippling the other models in the process. Instead making cameras for very specific users makes a lot more sense. And I think that's what we are seeing with the Ricoh lineup.

**TwoUptons** · 10-13-2019, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Much more than that. Between 2010 and 2020 the SLR market will be divided by four and the K-New represents at least as many, and probably more developments costs to recoup than the K-5.

Exactly.

But that doesn’t mean we won’t see a bunch of the “it must be better than the KP in these ways...” folks get really bent when Ricoh has the temerity to ask more money for those same improvements...

I expect good value, though...

-Eric

reh321 · 10-13-2019, 10:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by house

As I've said before I think it's a mistake to think in terms of "intro", "enthusiast", "flagship". Instead it makes sense to think of the use case/users for each camera. The previous model was just a ruse to get people to aspire to the most expensive camera. Crippling the other models in the process. Instead making cameras for very specific users makes a lot more sense. And I think that's what we are seeing with the Ricoh lineup.

I don’t see any difference between us in thinking, except I would disagree with your use of the words “ruse” and “cripple” - the KP is was what it is and the “K-3ii replacement” will be what it will be. An upper LCD, a larger battery, and two SD card slots were unneeded by users like me, and we don’t see any reason for us to pay for them; I got my KP ten months ago, and I am completely happy with it; I hope that “K3ii replacement” purchasers are equally happy with their purchase.

yorik · 10-13-2019, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I don’t see any difference between us in thinking, except I would disagree with your use of the words “ruse” and “cripple” - the KP is was what it is and the “K-3ii replacement” will be what it will be. An upper LCD, a larger battery, and two SD card slots were unneeded by users like me, and we don’t see any reason for us to pay for them; I got my KP ten months ago, and I am completely happy with it; I hope that “K3ii replacement” purchasers are equally happy with their purchase.

Well said. I'm curious to see what features will be on offer in the K-new, and then make a decision between it and a presumably even more affordable KP. My guess (hope) is that the introduction of the K-new will phase out the K-70 (if anything), not the KP.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 12:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TwoUptons

Exactly.

But that doesn’t mean we won’t see a bunch of the “it must be better than the KP in these ways...” folks get really bent when Ricoh has the temerity to ask more money for those same improvements...

I expect good value, though...

-Eric

So do I. The K-New's price–performance ratio will be terrific, not because its price will be low (on the contrary, it will be an expensive camera) but because its performances will be excellent.

10-13-2019, 07:46 AM - 6 Likes	#2613
tvdtvdtvd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,665	Originally posted by Mikesul Yes. There was a time a few years ago when you could get started with high quality Pentax equipment for quite a bit less than the rivals. It really does seem that Pentax has decided it has to abandon that approach to survive. 'Abandon' is probably not the most accurate word here. Ricoh are shifting market focus because that bottom end is eroding away fast. They made the first step in that direction by giving up the entry level compact market for all but the WG series, and I do believe they were one of the first established brands to do so. It's not as if Pentax has suddenly leap frogged into Leica price/value territory. The K-1 and KP still represent tremendous value compared to most anything else on the market and I expect the K-New will as well. Last edited by tvdtvdtvd; 10-13-2019 at 07:55 AM.

10-13-2019, 09:13 AM	#2619
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by TwoUptons I think the Z50 is showing Nikon’s take on what it needs to maintain acceptable profit margins with their anticipated sales volume. To me that’s not a good sign for them... and it suggests the KP was a very well placed model after all... I am afraid it probably means the new flagship will not be cheap �� -Eric I was thinking about the KP when seeing the Z50 as well. Size does differentiate them however. The HD PENTAX-DA 18-50mmF4-5.6 DC WR RE is a tiny collapsible lens but the mirrorless form factor makes the whole package or the Z50 a lot smaller. Again it seems like mirrorless makes the most difference at MF and apsc formats whilst for FF it doesn't make that much difference. As an aside I just noticed that the collapsible Pentax kit lens has the mtf published at http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/lens/k/standard/hdpentax-da-18-50/ Looks better than I imagined. Haven't heard much chatter about this lens. Last edited by house; 10-13-2019 at 09:15 AM. Reason: aside

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10-13-2019, 07:04 AM	#2611
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Yes. There was a time a few years ago when you could get started with high quality Pentax equipment for quite a bit less than the rivals. It really does seem that Pentax has decided it has to abandon that approach to survive.

10-13-2019, 07:38 AM	#2612
tvdtvdtvd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,665	Originally posted by solitudebound Has any one considered that this development model and subsequent couple small presentations were a means to placate the Pentax fandom and investors without actually making a new camera? If so, they probably deserve the delay for having built such a detailed model for the ruse. In other news, John Huston's granddaughter has just found several cans of film in the attic, including an audition of Kirk Douglas as Neil Armstrong....

10-13-2019, 08:05 AM	#2614
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by solitudebound Has any one considered that this development model and subsequent couple small presentations were a means to placate the Pentax fandom and investors without actually making a new camera? Meanwhile Ricoh's theta development is chugging along. I'm not doom and glooming Pentax but we did go through similar ups and downs (slow torture) in the decade of waiting for the K-1 (full frame). Sometimes memory is a burden but it would be rather foolish to ignore it. Just something to think about and no need to start a flaming war on the subject. Indeed it would be foolish to ignore the lessons of the past. The Pentax K-1 was announced four months after a prototype was showcased under glass and was available two months after its announcement.

10-13-2019, 08:09 AM	#2615
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by reh321 I have assumed all along that the new “flagship” will not be inexpensive - even the KP was something like $1199 when it first came out, and the “flagship” will be at least several hundred above that, and most likely will come down less and more slowly. The KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New.

10-13-2019, 08:11 AM	#2616
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by Mistral75 Indeed, the KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New. Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one.

10-13-2019, 08:17 AM	#2617
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by tvdtvdtvd 'Abandon' is probably not the most accurate word here. Ricoh are shifting market focus because that bottom end is eroding away fast. (...) It isn't eroding that fast as far as DSLRs are concerned. The average shipping price of DSLRs is going down steadily these days (see CIPA figures). That's because Canon keep on selling tons of EOS Rebel SL3 (EOS 250D / EOS Kiss X10) / EOS Rebel T7 (EOS 2000D) / EOS 4000D. There is however no money to be made with such high-volume, low-margin pieces of equipment and Ricoh have constantly stated they are going for value, not volume.

10-13-2019, 08:26 AM	#2618
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Belnan Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one. Much more than that. Between 2010 and 2020 the SLR market will be divided by four and the K-New represents at least as many, and probably more developments costs to recoup than the K-5.

10-13-2019, 09:32 AM - 2 Likes	#2620
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by Mistral75 The KP's RRP at launch was $1,199 / €1,299. Be prepared to add a good handful of Benjamins on top of that to get a K-New. Originally posted by Belnan Im thinking K-5 type intro pricing on this one. I'm thinking that the KP is the new "intro" APS-C, so the new "flag-ship" APS-C will be several hundred dollars above that - below the K-1ii, but don't assume much below that. In short- I agree with @Mistral75 on this one. Any PF members who have been eagerly awaiting the "K-3ii replacement" while simultaneously thinking "cheap" are going to have to rethink the KP.

10-13-2019, 09:37 AM	#2621
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by reh321 I'm thinking that the KP is the new "intro" APS-C, so the new "flag-ship" APS-C will be several hundred dollars above that - below the K-1ii, but don't assume much below that. In short- I agree with @Mistral75 on this one. Any PF members who have been eagerly awaiting the "K-3ii replacement" while simultaneously thinking "cheap" are going to have to rethink the KP. As I've said before I think it's a mistake to think in terms of "intro", "enthusiast", "flagship". Instead it makes sense to think of the use case/users for each camera. The previous model was just a ruse to get people to aspire to the most expensive camera. Crippling the other models in the process. Instead making cameras for very specific users makes a lot more sense. And I think that's what we are seeing with the Ricoh lineup.

10-13-2019, 10:05 AM	#2622
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,224	Originally posted by Mistral75 Much more than that. Between 2010 and 2020 the SLR market will be divided by four and the K-New represents at least as many, and probably more developments costs to recoup than the K-5. Exactly. But that doesn’t mean we won’t see a bunch of the “it must be better than the KP in these ways...” folks get really bent when Ricoh has the temerity to ask more money for those same improvements... I expect good value, though... -Eric

10-13-2019, 10:22 AM - 1 Like	#2623
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by house As I've said before I think it's a mistake to think in terms of "intro", "enthusiast", "flagship". Instead it makes sense to think of the use case/users for each camera. The previous model was just a ruse to get people to aspire to the most expensive camera. Crippling the other models in the process. Instead making cameras for very specific users makes a lot more sense. And I think that's what we are seeing with the Ricoh lineup. I don’t see any difference between us in thinking, except I would disagree with your use of the words “ruse” and “cripple” - the KP is was what it is and the “K-3ii replacement” will be what it will be. An upper LCD, a larger battery, and two SD card slots were unneeded by users like me, and we don’t see any reason for us to pay for them; I got my KP ten months ago, and I am completely happy with it; I hope that “K3ii replacement” purchasers are equally happy with their purchase.

10-13-2019, 12:02 PM	#2624
yorik Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Scotts Valley, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 991	Originally posted by reh321 I don’t see any difference between us in thinking, except I would disagree with your use of the words “ruse” and “cripple” - the KP is was what it is and the “K-3ii replacement” will be what it will be. An upper LCD, a larger battery, and two SD card slots were unneeded by users like me, and we don’t see any reason for us to pay for them; I got my KP ten months ago, and I am completely happy with it; I hope that “K3ii replacement” purchasers are equally happy with their purchase. Well said. I'm curious to see what features will be on offer in the K-new, and then make a decision between it and a presumably even more affordable KP. My *guess* (hope) is that the introduction of the K-new will phase out the K-70 (if anything), not the KP.

10-13-2019, 12:23 PM - 1 Like	#2625
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by TwoUptons Exactly. But that doesn’t mean we won’t see a bunch of the “it must be better than the KP in these ways...” folks get really bent when Ricoh has the temerity to ask more money for those same improvements... I expect good value, though... -Eric So do I. The K-New's price–performance ratio will be terrific, not because its price will be low (on the contrary, it will be an expensive camera) but because its performances will be excellent.