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09-23-2019, 05:37 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by bretth Quote
The image shows recessed ares bottom right of screen which indicates otherwise.
It's been confirmed by a member who have seen it close-up, that it appears to be a fixed screen. That does not bother me in the least. I've used my K-1II's screen in another position than it's normal "docked" position about 3 times, if that.

09-23-2019, 08:31 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Now wait a minute, my post was a direct reaction to the expressed desire that Dpreview should finally test a Pentax body and declare it's AF on par with the "Big Boys".

And i.m.o. and also (limited) experience, it isn't that simple. A mythical body cannot all of a sudden perform like the best of Nikon with lenses that are simply not of that level. I have waited and hoped for a better APS-C body for a few years to match my DA560, but I was never under the impression that the DA560 on that new "high end APS-C flagship" would suddenly perform like a 500mm f5.6PF on the Nikon D500, and never hoped for that. I simply wanted a more stable, reliable body with more consistent and accurate AF. I am sure that that is just what Pentax users will get with the coming K? flagship, and perhaps even some real speed with the DFA70-200. But to fully take advantage of a +1500,- high end body, you simply need lenses with ultrasonic motors that can make numerous very small adjustments within a 1sec 10 frame burst. I know, because I tried to do BIF with the DA560 on the K3II, and I have now also done it with a Canon 7DII and the 400DOII +1.4TC. There is simply no comparison, not even close, not even distantly close. DC motors will do fine for accuracy, but are, as far as I know, speed limited.
It is completelly true what you are satying. How ever. Latest Pentax lenses are showing a change to better. And I suppose if they will get AF working better, it’ll affect also the lens design. So far lenses have been almost on par on what body can do. And since they have started with small remade of old lenses(upgrades), there might be coming also upgrades to other lenses too? Who knows. But these new * lenses for example are something else already
09-23-2019, 09:30 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
With which lenses is the new APS-C top end camera supposed to reach such Nikon D500 heights though?
In addition to the 70-200/2.8 and 55-300/4.5-6.3 PLM (I have no personal experience but only heard positive things about their AF speed), the optically excellent HD D-FA* 50/1.4 also has a modern AF engine (ring motor, in this case). It probably isn't as fast as it could be if it didn't have to move a lot of glass around, though. I believe the priority was on optical excellence rather than pure focusing speed.

While all these lenses are steps in the right direction I don't know how closely they are approaching top-end lenses from other manufacturers as far as AF-speed is concerned. I have no trouble believing you at all that there is a night and day difference between using a DA 560/5.6 on an older Pentax DSLR versus a modern top-end lens from another manufacturer on a camera of the same age or newer.

I also agree that wildlife shooters who are looking for silent telephoto primes might be better off looking elsewhere. The DA* 200/2.8 and 300/4 work fine (even on FF) but they may not satisfy ultimate speed requirements and there are no new 400mm / 600mm options.
09-23-2019, 09:38 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
my post was a direct reaction to the expressed desire that Dpreview should finally test a Pentax body and declare it's AF on par with the "Big Boys".
You read something in DPReview and reply in Pentax forums? IMO that's a communication issue.

09-23-2019, 10:39 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Well, I'm not in a position to account for or predict the replies from other members.

I simply think that additional details on AF performance would enhance this type of discussion -- and the credibility of the commentators who make claims or implications. Those members who have lots of experience with Pentax and other brands should be in good positions to support their impressions with such detail. Otherwise, I would tend to discount their brief claims, suggestions, or implications. And I wouldn't expect anything as serious as an engineering thesis!

The post #18 by @Chris Mak; led me to infer that he thinks the D500 AF is superlative, and provides "fast, accurate tracking and near instantaneous focus lock" when using appropriate lenses. The post suggests to me that Pentax AF is inferior, in part because of weak lenses. This may be the case or not -- and I think Chris has a lot more experience than I do in this area -- but I have never seen any credible data published by anyone that supports such a suggestion.

- Craig

Wow your kidding right ?
I have to say, in 10 years coming to this site only one other comment almost made my want to wade into the delightful rabbit hole of all back and forth comments the internet has to offer. That comments by some member was to paraphrase
“ For every Canon Shooter, Pentax gains 2 users “ or something equally odd.

Your head scratcher, moved me to actually comment, a first.

I shoot several systems. Pentax included. And for anything requiring critical and fast paced AF, I shoot something else.
I have used Pentax forever. From 645 , 35mm to DSLR

I have a number of star lens.
amongst tons of other lens,
My fastest and most accurate happens to be my 18-135mm. A non pro kit lens. The lenses are all vastly different in speed. and due to 5 repairs on my failed slow 16-50 SDM, they are all different in accuracy.
Don’t take my word or any of the others members or hundreds of reviews for that matter. Data ? Published ?

I hope this new body /sensor / AF combo ups the AF game, with the current lens line up , but those AF motors are a real mixed bag.
What dare I ask would be adequate data ?
09-23-2019, 10:46 PM - 7 Likes   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You read something in DPReview and reply in Pentax forums?
That's not at all what happened.

Chris Mak is not a troll and it is really easy to see that with a minimum of effort.

FYI, The Squirrel Mafia posted (on pentaxforums) that "I know that a good chunk of users here hate DPReview, but if they actually say that the AF is finally on par with the rest of the field, I imagine that this camera is going to sell quite well."

Chris Mak only challenged the idea that DPReview would state that the "AF is finally on par with the rest of the field" given that AF performance isn't just determined by the body but also depends on respective lenses of which Pentax currently offers only a couple of. These are all valid points.

As a matter of fact, one does not need to read his question as a "challenge" at all. Why not regard it as a genuine question? He couched all his arguments with qualifiers like "as far as I know", etc.

Last edited by Class A; 09-23-2019 at 10:56 PM.
09-23-2019, 10:57 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Chris Mak is not a troll and it is really easy to see that with a minimum of effort.
Ah ok. Ricoh doesn't have a 400 f2.8 and 600 f4, what the point of announcing a new camera for 2020? No body should consider buying it?
What should we buy? Canon? That poses the question what brand of camera is capable to take good photos?


Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-23-2019 at 11:11 PM.
09-23-2019, 11:15 PM - 4 Likes   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Chris switch to Canon, coming back on discuss Pentax. If I'd switch to Canon (or any other brand of system), I wouldn't be interested to discuss about the pros and cons of the Pentax system and I wouldn't come to PF to say how good is my new system, unless... What is the goal of posting cons about Pentax in Pentax forums? Is it to save Pentaxians from making the wrong choice?
Pffff, take a chill pill 🙃 shooting with Pentax cameras is not a religion 🤪 I for one are interested how it performs compared to other cameras. User experiences are valuable, especially coming from guys using several systems
09-23-2019, 11:15 PM - 5 Likes   #54
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Can we cut the snark please? I'm considering merging this thread with the other one, and some wholesale deletions might accompany that process....
09-23-2019, 11:36 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
That's not at all what
Chris Mak only challenged the idea that DPReview would state that the "AF is finally on par with the rest of the field" given that AF performance isn't just determined by the body but also depends on respective lenses of which Pentax currently offers only a couple of. These are all valid points.
There's no way DPR would say that, even if It would be true. Their tests will be adapted to make the camera "fail", not to measure improvement - and if there is one area where a competitor does better (eye tracking or whatever)...

It won't have anything to do with lenses; do you think a DFA* 70-200 won't cope with the bicycle test? And clearly nothing with the lack on an as-expensive-as-a-car 500mm.
09-24-2019, 01:43 AM   #56
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DFA*70-200 lacks ultrasonic ring motor. This lens should be upgraded or replaced by rebadged Tamron 70-200/2.8 G2 if they lack resources.

But for APS-C body some modern DA*50-150/2.8 or DA*50-200/2.8 with fast ring ultrasonic motor can be much better option. (Competitors have Sigma 50-150/2.8 HSM, Fuji has 50-140/2.8 for example). Old sudden death motor DA*50-135/2.8 needs to be replaced anyway. That motors are problematic even after 2012 and multicoating should be upgraded to HD level too.
09-24-2019, 01:56 AM   #57
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Is the Tamron significantly faster? Don't automatically assume it is.
09-24-2019, 02:20 AM   #58
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Yes it is..



Such lens class needs ring type ultrasonic motors. No way backwards.
09-24-2019, 02:34 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by xmeda Quote
Yes it is..



Such lens class needs ring type ultrasonic motors. No way backwards.
What kind of lenses are you shooting and on which body? If I might ask?
09-24-2019, 02:51 AM   #60
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Compared D810 with Tamron 70-200G2 and K1II with DFA*70-200. Quite different lenses in terms of focusing/refocusing.
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