[Class A]

Wouldn't a higher resolution metering sensor allow better detection of features (faces, or even eyes) that the AF system could use to determine which PDAF point to select?

Yes, I've edited my earlier post a while ago to speculate that this approach could indeed be taken.

I wouldn't hope for eye-AF but face-AF might be on the cards. I had no idea that the D850 already can do this, thanks for pointing it out.

The idea wouldn't make much sense with a limited AF area coverage as most detected objects would be outside the reach of the PDAF AF areas. However, given that the new APS-C flagship almost certainly will sport a high AF area coverage and is unlikely to lack a decent density of AF areas as well, it seems that at least the basis for PDAF focus on faces is present.

I guess for super critical focus on the eyes for portraits it will still be better to manually select an AF area but for event coverage, for instance, a face detect option could be handy.

[phoebus]

Yes, I've edited my earlier post a while ago to speculate that this approach could indeed be taken.
...
...
I guess for super critical focus on the eyes for portraits it will still be better to manually select an AF area but for event coverage, for instance, a face detect option could be handy.

Yes, you beat me to it - I was busy Google-ing at the time ;-)

I bet that centre point focus and recompose will still be better for catching the correct eye with DFA*50 1.4 fully open, than relying on 'clever' technology.... ... but better C-AF would be very welcome!

[Class A]

I bet that centre point focus and recompose will still be better for catching the correct eye with DFA*50 1.4 fully open, than relying on 'clever' technology

Yes, do you have that lens, BTW? I love my copy.

but better C-AF would be very welcome!

Agreed. I think it would, overall, be more important.

But anything Ricoh can do to make some waves is welcome.

[MJKoski]

Howbow 61MP K-1 MK3? Sensor seems to be available already as Nikon is rumored to be developing 61MP Z8 or whatever model number. But this time without accelerator chip please.

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 09-26-2019 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Inflammatory

[stevebrot]

Are you talking about this thread?

Yes, that would be the one and here is the image:*



Link to the pertinent post with details: Hacking Exif with Exiftool - PentaxForums.com

Following comments with other examples are also interesting.


Steve

* Had been posted once before by member @rawr, but was unable to find that post.

[house]

Does anyone know how the scene recognition sensor differs from a "normal" cmos sensor? With the current resolution and price of phone sensor one could imagine sticking a phone sensor, or other derived sensor, in there. Shouldn't be that expensive to get a several mpix sensor to to all your fancy work for you.

The mechanism for displaying it must be the real hurdle however.

[stevebrot]

Does anyone know how the scene recognition sensor differs from a "normal" cmos sensor?

No Pentax camera has a dedicated scene recognition sensor, though Auto (green) mode will evaluate the image during JPEG processing and apply various preset processing based on its best guess as to scene type.


Steve

[y0chang]

The thing I care about the rumored sensor is the fact that it is BSI, which means it should have a faster readout which means better burst rates, 4k video with minimal rolling shutter, and lower base sensor noise. It might even have dual gain architecture for better high ISO performance. It should be on par or better than the XT-3 which is the new benchmark in APS-C.

[house]

No Pentax camera has a dedicated scene recognition sensor, though Auto (green) mode will evaluate the image during JPEG processing and apply various preset processing based on its best guess as to scene type.


Steve

Two links that describe the sensor. It's the exposure etc. that also does "ai" scene recognition

You Tube

You Tube

edit: updated post to correct youtube url

[ffking]

When I'm doing night street photography in particular, I always select Auto - it does a pretty decent job, and I can concentrate on grabbing the moment - particularly with a fast lens (my normal is the 31mm Lrd) and a cap on the max ISO - I like the resilts it gives me - not alays 100% predicatable, but tht would mean it was 'thinking' like me, and it sometimes does it better

[stevebrot]

Two links that describe the sensor. It's the exposure etc. that also does "ai" scene recognition

PENTAX K-3 II "86,000-pixel RGB metering sensor" - YouTube

edit: updated post to correct youtube url

I only see the youtube video and it says nothing of AI scene recognition. Pentax uses the term "Scene Analyze Auto" in the KP and K-1 user manuals for the "Auto" (green) mode only with no such distinction for the K-3 or K-3II. That is the closest I could find to "scene recognition".

I just took a few test shots with my K-3 of a strongly backlit subject and the camera chose equivalent exposure settings for both images, though it did choose a slightly higher shutter speed in green mode. The OOC JPEGS are identical. There is no indication in the EXIF indicating application of backlight correction.

There have been multiple claims since the 86Kpx RGB meter sensor debuted on the K-3 in 2013. A frequent claim has been the ability to detect faces and/or eyes to augment the AF system. I have tested both and was unable to substantiate either. Another claim is that it is used by the AF system to assist in subject tracking and light quality considerations. Such was claimed in promotional information for the K-3 (LINK) when it was first released. I have not tested this, but from all reports, if such is active, the sensor is inadequate to detect bicycles or their riders.

It may well be that the meter sensor is tightly integrated into multiple systems, but detecting such has proven difficult.


Steve

[stevebrot]

@house...I found the graphic that diagrams the relationship of parts for what is called the "Real Time Scene Analysis System" for the K-3. It should provide some clarification of what happens, which components are involved, and when/where the work is done...



Prime III is the image processing engine and is the heart of the camera. It brokers and coordinates all of the downstream boxes. Note that the box labeled scene detection is a bit of a misnomer in light of the downstream tasks in the boxes to the right. The box for WB interests me in that conventional wisdom is that auto WB is determined post-exposure from the actual capture data. The Muli Auto White Balance feature was new to the K-3 and the role of the RGB sensor in support of that feature is quite likely.


Steve

[reh321]

When I'm doing night street photography in particular, I always select Auto - it does a pretty decent job, and I can concentrate on grabbing the moment - particularly with a fast lens (my normal is the 31mm Lrd) and a cap on the max ISO - I like the resilts it gives me - not alays 100% predicatable, but tht would mean it was 'thinking' like me, and it sometimes does it better

I use 'TAv' mode, because that way I can control both the DoF and motion blur.

[dafbp]

The Canon 90D is not a new flagship APS-C camera, it is a mid-class camera and positively presented as such. The 7DII, with 65 cross type AF points, is still available but admittedly could be considered end of life. Rumored inside info suggest that Canon will "address this concern later this year", referring to questions from dealers about the lack of a 7DII successor, which is vital to them, because it helps sell lenses like the Canon 100-400mm, 300mm f2.8 and such. I believe that most now assume that Canon will refresh the 7DII with a mirroless camera, which is unlikely though, given Canon's different mirrorless mounts for FF and APS-C. There are some choices to be made by Canon. The stories about "merging the 80D line and the 7D line into one model" are not credible, the 90D has a rather poor buffer, a single card slot, mid-class build quality, only 45 AF points, etc. etc.

Interesting, because in CameraVille (please don't shoot me ) some people were suggesting the new Pentax should be priced around the same as the 90D (1200). I did think that price would be silly if they'd done more than just add the KP innards to the K3, but comparing a new camera to a eol'd one is a bit too much.
But then, I've seen people here suggesting even less than that

[Photos-by-Chas]

I'd make a more enlightened and responsive comment if I could read the original post, just can't read any Asian language.