[reh321]

I'm more than happy to stop any time as long as you don't attack what I say.

I appreciate that the back and forth between us may not be pleasant for some but I will not accept attacks on what I wrote, such as that I'm operating with "misconceptions" or from a place of "fear".

No one should be asked to accept such attacks without response.

We can stop it right here. I'd welcome it.

We know your opinion.
You know my opinion.
We know opinion of @normhead.
We know opinion of @alfa75ts.

Let's talk about something else - anything else.

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Last edited by reh321; 10-12-2019 at 02:50 PM.

[alfa75ts]

Stop it!!

[totsmuyco]

Oh please, give it a rest. There's absolutely no sense in that post.
I assume the two work together, the camera does its job, PP software does it job. There's absolutely no evidence desktop software can do both jobs.

Agree. Photos through camera recorded in on the card = film.
Computer software PP = darkroom

[gatorguy]

It's not for beginners. I still use it from time to time. It's just that, if i have a model for example or a person on a street walking and usually they don't change the direction, then I set my composition and I choose the focus point suited for that particular scene. It may be the top right af point, it could be the third left af point to the center one, etc. To me (again, to me) it's faster this way and given the wide aperture used, it's more acurate.

Anyway, enjoy the hike because beautiful images can be taken regardless of the technique used.

So my K70 w/D FA100 was left at single center point as I usually would. The KP w/55-300PLM set for center 9.

The PLM (which other than a couple test shots I had personally not used) focused so quickly I had to double check the first couple of shots. Color me surprised, it performs a lot better than I expected it too BUT...

In general focus with the KP tended to be a bit softer yet still focused compared to center point on the K70. Now I will qualify this: On the shots where i was able to test both cameras on the same subjects they were definitely not fast moving. Blue Herons, Great White Egret, American Alligator. On a hawk I got perfect focus on two of six shots and soft focus on a third with the K-70 single point. Three were horrid. The KP with center 9 hit good focus on three and acceptable on another. But none of them were as sharply focused as the two from the K70. Even tghe realtively static Blue Herons were simply not quite as eye-focused and the single point K70.

So here's where I stand on it at the moment. Whether person or fowl where I can get eye focus my shots will be more accurate with a single point, and focus then recompose is nearly as fast as the PLM set to center 9. That lens is quick, but single point is more reliable. But for those moving critters I'm going to work on using center nine. Better to have shots even soft-focused than not at all. Oh, and use the 55-300PLM. Thanks for that Dan.

At the same time I see no reason to compose and then move my focus point rather than establish focus and then recompose. The latter requires a single tap on the rear button (back button focus) and then compose and shoot. This rarely requires more than two or three seconds on most of my subjects. Using your suggested method means composing which we both have to do but also moving a focus point around using the four-way controller, tap.. tap... tap... and if the eye doesn't match up to one of the points having to move the lens to focus, then recomposing anyway. Where's the advantage? It would have to be slower to move focus points with the controller.

So I'm not overly concerned with how many focus points the new Pentax will have. It will be the other features what will determine whether I buy it or not.

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Last edited by gatorguy; 10-12-2019 at 06:14 PM.

[totsmuyco]

I believe Pentax is listening to this forum. They know what the users would like to have. I would expect a much better AFC in this camera. But definitely I wouldn't expect it to be at D500 level. A greater improvement in the present AFC system would be acceptable. I hope somebody with technical expertise will be able to quantify it in a way to show as proof. Why we need proof is because of complaints against the system. But then again people will still put down Pentax despite improvements.

[MikeyBugs95]

I believe Pentax is listening to this forum. They know what the users would like to have. I would expect a much better AFC in this camera. But definitely I wouldn't expect it to be at D500 level. A greater improvement in the present AFC system would be acceptable. I hope somebody with technical expertise will be able to quantify it in a way to show as proof. Why we need proof is because of complaints against the system. But then again people will still put down Pentax despite improvements.

That's the problem. It seems fanboyism had taken over the consumer sector.

[totsmuyco]

That's the problem. It seems fanboyism had taken over the consumer sector.

The things that made me choose Pentax about 5 or 6 years ago are still there. And these reasons are still what's keeping me in Pentax. There are suggestions given in this forum that Pentax should consider such as better AFC and video. Honestly I don't care about video but that's the trend now and Pentax should attract new users A lot of us are getting old myself included. There should be new users that should support the system for it to be profitable.

[Dan Rentea]

So my K70 w/D FA100 was left at single center point as I usually would. The KP w/55-300PLM set for center 9.

The PLM (which other than a couple test shots I had personally not used) focused so quickly I had to double check the first couple of shots. Color me surprised, it performs a lot better than I expected it too BUT...

In general focus with the KP tended to be a bit softer yet still focused compared to center point on the K70. Now I will qualify this: On the shots where i was able to test both cameras on the same subjects they were definitely not fast moving. Blue Herons, Great White Egret, American Alligator. On a hawk I got perfect focus on two of six shots and soft focus on a third with the K-70 single point. Three were horrid. The KP with center 9 hit good focus on three and acceptable on another. But none of them were as sharply focused as the two from the K70. Even tghe realtively static Blue Herons were simply not quite as eye-focused and the single point K70.

So here's where I stand on it at the moment. Whether person or fowl where I can get eye focus my shots will be more accurate with a single point, and focus then recompose is nearly as fast as the PLM set to center 9. That lens is quick, but single point is more reliable. But for those moving critters I'm going to work on using center nine. Better to have shots even soft-focused than not at all. Oh, and use the 55-300PLM. Thanks for that Dan.

At the same time I see no reason to compose and then move my focus point rather than establish focus and then recompose. The latter requires a single tap on the rear button (back button focus) and then compose and shoot. This rarely requires more than two or three seconds on most of my subjects. Using your suggested method means composing which we both have to do but also moving a focus point around using the four-way controller, tap.. tap... tap... and if the eye doesn't match up to one of the points having to move the lens to focus, then recomposing anyway. Where's the advantage? It would have to be slower to move focus points with the controller.

So I'm not overly concerned with how many focus points the new Pentax will have. It will be the other features what will determine whether I buy it or not.

As I said, each to his own method. There isn't right or wrong. On big static subjects like the blue heron I don't need group af (center 5, center 9) and most of the time I don't need Af-C either because they move quite slow. But, given their long and thin neck, center point won't help me if i'm close to the bird so I choose the af point closer to the eye. If the blue heron is in flight, then I use different settings:

- 5 af points (not necesary the center ones) if the bird is not very close and the background is busy
- all af points if the background is not distracting
- single point af (again, not the center one most of the time) if the bird is close enough to fill the frame

The new Pentax APS-C will have 2 things that will speed up the workflow:
- joystick which will be a lot faster than tapping the 4 buttons
- the button that will switch from Af-S to Af-C in a fraction of a second

And who knows, maybe the new Pentax APS-C will have even drag and touch af option. This option is even faster in changing the af points than the joystick.

---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 05:34 AM ----------

I believe Pentax is listening to this forum. They know what the users would like to have. I would expect a much better AFC in this camera. But definitely I wouldn't expect it to be at D500 level. A greater improvement in the present AFC system would be acceptable. I hope somebody with technical expertise will be able to quantify it in a way to show as proof. Why we need proof is because of complaints against the system. But then again people will still put down Pentax despite improvements.

Pentax Af-C is not that bad as some people want us to believe. Sure, it's not great either with fast subjects, but Pentax cameras weren't released with sport/action in mind.

[totsmuyco]

As I said, each to his own method. There isn't right or wrong. On big static subjects like the blue heron I don't need group af (center 5, center 9) and most of the time I don't need Af-C either because they move quite slow. But, given their long and thin neck, center point won't help me if i'm close to the bird so I choose the af point closer to the eye. If the blue heron is in flight, then I use different settings:

- 5 af points (not necesary the center ones) if the bird is not very close and the background is busy
- all af points if the background is not distracting
- single point af (again, not the center one most of the time) if the bird is close enough to fill the frame

The new Pentax APS-C will have 2 things that will speed up the workflow:
- joystick which will be a lot faster than tapping the 4 buttons
- the button that will switch from Af-S to Af-C in a fraction of a second

And who knows, maybe the new Pentax APS-C will have even drag and touch af option. This option is even faster in changing the af points than the joystick.

---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 05:34 AM ----------



Pentax Af-C is not that bad as some people want us to believe. Sure, it's not great either with fast subjects, but Pentax cameras weren't released with sport/action in mind.

I know Dan. I picked up a lot of techniques here in PF and I can live with it. It's just that people just simply put down a good system. I guess no matter what Pentax will do bashers will continue to step on it. Though I believe that there should be new developments for it to be competitive. The younger people can't dig what we like.

[Rondec]

Engineering knowledge.

What if you asked a plumber to install a water tap that can provide any kind of water temperature and volume based on the the setting of a single lever and they replied to you that this is impossible. What if they said you can only have two taps, one for cold and one for hot and you'll have to mix the water in the sink? Would you believe the plumber?

What if you said: "No, I really want a single tap with a single lever and I know it can be done".
How do you respond when the plumber asks you "What makes you so sure?"?


How do you know that?

How do you know that neutralising the "accelerator" unit wouldn't give one K-1 images from a K-1 II without further work?


Please explain why you think it is a "misconception".

Since you are implying that I don't know what I'm talking about, please educate me and point me to material that demonstrates that there is a "blackbox misconception".


You are most welcome to not see a reason for that.

That's a 100% fine.

The only problem we are having is that you are trying to force your view on those who see a reason and belittle them by insinuating they act from a "fear of loss".

I think it is pretty clear that, at least as currently constructed, the accelerator isn't something that can be turned on or off. If it was that simple, I think Pentax would have created such a switch to improve their reviews from DP Review, even if most folks just left it set to the "on" position.

I suppose the question is more what they choose to do going forward and how they use this tech in the future. I don't guess that they would abandon it and it seems likely to show up on this and other new cameras, but perhaps more fine tuned and user adjustable (which I think would make you happier).

[gatorguy]

The new Pentax APS-C will have 2 things that will speed up the workflow:
- joystick which will be a lot faster than tapping the 4 buttons
- the button that will switch from Af-S to Af-C in a fraction of a second

I discovered the focus mode button on my KP only yesterday. That alone makes it faster to change from single point to others compared to my K70. Just 2 seconds to change from single point auto to single spot select to all in between.

I don't know that Af-S to Af-C is deserving of a dedicated button. I have to stop to think or look now for some of the less used ones I already have, but then again the KP controls are pretty closely packed. Heck I hadn't noticed elves had visited and added the focus mode button to my Pentax until yesterday morning.

[reh321]

I believe Pentax is listening to this forum.

This is the big question - how much does Pentax listen to this Forum and how do they listen to their Japanese customers at hand?? My impression is that the Japanese customers at hand have a lot more influence than we as a good do.

[normhead]

This is the big question - how much does Pentax listen to this Forum and how do they listen to their Japanese customers at hand?? My impression is that the Japanese customers at hand have a lot more influence than we as a good do.

Pentax has been committed to improving it's AF algorithms for a long time now.
MY feeling is, if you're not using a K-P with a DA 55-300 PLM, you don't even know how good Pentax AF is.

We have a lot of opinions formed when people with really old gear switch to something newer, but they didn't try out what Pentax has that's newer. It get's old real quick.

[Belnan]

This is the big question - how much does Pentax listen to this Forum and how do they listen to their Japanese customers at hand?? My impression is that the Japanese customers at hand have a lot more influence than we as a good do.

I think you are right, but their complaints are likely similar to the ones on this forum. C-AF tracking and video... lenses etc. I dont care about video and others dont AF tracking. I think this new camera will be the best Pentax dslr in both of those regards, especially AF.

[Mikesul]

Pentax has been committed to improving it's AF algorithms for a long time now.
MY feeling is, if you're not using a K-P with a DA 55-300 PLM, you don't even know how good Pentax AF is.

We have a lot of opinions formed when people with really old gear switch to something newer, but they didn't try out what Pentax has that's newer. It get's old real quick.

Well stated, Norm. Too often there are statements about "Pentax" as if the brand was static. You are right about the KP and 55-300 PLM. They are very fast and accurate. They are the current standard for Pentax AF and that is very competitive.