another pentax interview

philmorley · 10-17-2008, 03:21 AM

well here is another? pentax interview

Photokina report - pentax interview: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

News/Gossip.

Amateur Photographer UK quoted in their Photokina report supplement "Informer" - in 18 October issue this week, that Pentax is again considering manufacturing their digital medium-format system.

They have already developed the technology to deliver the 40-50 megapixel system. This was quoted by Toshiaki Iue, Vice President of Sales and Marketing to selected journalists. It all depends on the market research indicating if there is a big enough demand for such a model before commiting to manufacutring it. It would be Iue's preference to forge ahead with it, as a similar product is not available from either Canon or Nikon. If the research indicates that it isnt a commercial option then they are poised to go develop a FF DSLR. And that means going against against Canon and Nikon, and by Iue's own admission Pentax would be on the back foot.

He did not commit to a time frame, but recognised they needed to act quickly. Only one from the above could be produced in the short term - but in the longer term if things went well, both could be eventually produced. He said Pentax was open minded about producing a Micro Four Thirds model, but feels the K-m addresses that market (apparently the 'm' stands for mini).

----

I think we have just about every combination of pentax making and/or not making a 645, FF and micro by now LOL!

ogl · 10-17-2008, 07:10 AM

I think they will make decision very soon. Not later this winter.

Philippos · 10-17-2008, 08:03 AM

Too little butter spread over too much bread...

Personally, I doubt Leica's move will be any succesfull at all, and with the market declining so rapidly, I doubt investment on development of any custom MF system will ever pay off.
For Pentax an affordable FF is a much more viable option and at this moment, as it has a much wider customer base. You can confirm it here with so many people wishing there will be some announcement before summer '09.
Personally I don't need a killer camera at $3k-$4k, I would like however a decent machine at $2k, plus a chance to continue using my old FF glass.

As I believe I'm near the average user, I certainly would prefer buying a car (or tour the world with my K10D) with $20K instead of buying a camera - any camera. I don't doubt that some would buy the camera, I just doubt there's enough of them to justify the investment.

Not Registered · 10-17-2008, 08:36 AM

I dont know, I think that Nikon also announced the development a MF-like camera.

Samsungian · 10-17-2008, 08:46 AM

I follow Canon and Nikon rumors and both Canon and Nikon have already been rumoured to be working on medium format. I think Nikon has the edge since they used to make large format lenses.

But Canon has already announced via a couple of their NDA Reps a hush hush 48 month roadmap that has them offering 50-60mp sensors for 35mm full frame and 25mp crop, aps-c in less than 4 years now.

Canon EOS 60D DSLR - what replaces the 50D

And medium format digital Leica S2 is already announced with lenses. Pricey? Heck Yes! But for working pros its just more tools for their bag. Here's medium format digital future product possibilities on my favorite rumor site for everyone's brand except pentax:

Canon medium format digital 2ff camera

Originally posted by philmorley

well here is another? pentax interview

Photokina report - pentax interview: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

News/Gossip.

Amateur Photographer UK quoted in their Photokina report supplement "Informer" - in 18 October issue this week, that Pentax is again considering manufacturing their digital medium-format system.

They have already developed the technology to deliver the 40-50 megapixel system. This was quoted by Toshiaki Iue, Vice President of Sales and Marketing to selected journalists. It all depends on the market research indicating if there is a big enough demand for such a model before commiting to manufacutring it. It would be Iue's preference to forge ahead with it, as a similar product is not available from either Canon or Nikon. If the research indicates that it isnt a commercial option then they are poised to go develop a FF DSLR. And that means going against against Canon and Nikon, and by Iue's own admission Pentax would be on the back foot.

He did not commit to a time frame, but recognised they needed to act quickly. Only one from the above could be produced in the short term - but in the longer term if things went well, both could be eventually produced. He said Pentax was open minded about producing a Micro Four Thirds model, but feels the K-m addresses that market (apparently the 'm' stands for mini).

----

I think we have just about every combination of pentax making and/or not making a 645, FF and micro by now LOL!

falconeye · 10-18-2008, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by Philippos

Personally, I doubt Leica's move will be any succesfull at all

I share your doubt. Maybe, for a different reason, though.

I have trouble to see that the market will eventually accept all possible sensor sizes. Photographers will have too much trouble to use them all. Just like film only existed in linear sizes stepped at least 100% apart (Pocket, 35mm, MF).

For this reason, I only see a few discrete sizes to stay (diagonals in mm given):

P&S (~10; 7.5 - 9.5)
FT, mFT (22)
35mm FF (43)
MF (75)

IMHO, intermediate formats will eventually most likely die out. Because they sit in niches which aren't protected. This includes APS-C (28mm diagonal [K20D]) and the new Leica Pro format (30x45mm, 54mm diagonal). Surely, the Leica Pro format has better chances to stay than an APS-C-sensor/FF-bajonett combination...

MikePerham · 10-18-2008, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

IMHO, intermediate formats will eventually most likely die out. Because they sit in niches which aren't protected. This includes APS-C (28mm diagonal [K20D]) and the new Leica Pro format (30x45mm, 54mm diagonal). Surely, the Leica Pro format has better chances to stay than an APS-C-sensor/FF-bajonett combination...

I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold.

I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future.

**GaryM** · 10-18-2008, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by MikePerham

I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold.

I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future.

Wishful thinking from FF zealots.

thePiRaTE!! · 10-18-2008, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by MikePerham

I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold.

I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by GaryM

Wishful thinking from FF zealots.

Its been discussed soo much. But, obviously not enough for everyone.

APS-C sensor doesn't fill the K-mount, which was originally designed for the 24x36 film frame, not a 16.5x23 sensor. Currently, camera companies are announcing smaller bodies with new smaller mounts (4/3 consortium, Samsungs future small DSLR line, etc) that will fit smaller sensors properly and take advantage of the smaller size - and full 24x36 sensors in existing legacy mounts.

It is extremely unlikely that the current APS-C in K-mount will continue to exist once the market plays out as everyone - which ever side of the fence they currently sit on - will benefit more from one of these diverging products or the other. The interim as we know it will no longer need to exist.

nosnoop · 10-18-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

It is extremely unlikely that the current APS-C in K-mount will continue to exist once the market plays out as everyone - which ever side of the fence they currently sit on - will benefit more from one of these diverging products or the other. The interim as we know it will no longer need to exist.

But you are talking about two separate things here: sensor size, and lens mount.
APS-C sensor can continue to exist and survive in a new lens mount (e.g. micro-K for EVIL cameras); and Samsung has hinted as such for its EVIL.

As for survival of K mount, who knows how the EVIL camera market would play out. It would certainly capture the entry level for sure. But if the appetite for optical viewfinder and mirror box has completely died, then, yes, K mount would go; but so will the FF cameras.

**barondla** · 10-18-2008, 05:56 PM

Can't imagine why anyone would bet against APSc surviving. More of them than any format except P&S. Lens mount isn't keeping companies from building small slrs. Look at the Oly mount on E420. Yes micro whatever will be smaller. Will people buy it? We shall see. my guess is for most people it will be to small. APSc film didn't replace 35mm. 35mm was too entrenched. Now APSc is entrenched with digital.
thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!

falconeye · 10-18-2008, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by MikePerham

I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs.

I agree that my argument isn't entirely rigorous. Another option would be that APS-C is to stay and both, FF and FT, are determined to die, with digital MF taking over the combined role FF and MF had in the past. But then, the K-mount would have to be replaced by a mount delivering on the promise of the smaller image circle.

The question is whether there will be 3 or 4 formats in the end. But I doubt that the market will accept more than 4.

My main statement above actually, was that the Leica Pro format is yet one more format which makes me wonder how it can survive.

BTW, I see signs for the 4 format path as the market seems to demand a proposition for "better than P&S but smaller than DSLR". But this sign isn't conclusive because P&S could die in favour of the phone camera segment.

thePiRaTE!! · 10-18-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

But you are talking about two separate things here: sensor size, and lens mount.
APS-C sensor can continue to exist and survive in a new lens mount (e.g. micro-K for EVIL cameras); and Samsung has hinted as such for its EVIL.

As for survival of K mount, who knows how the EVIL camera market would play out. It would certainly capture the entry level for sure. But if the appetite for optical viewfinder and mirror box has completely died, then, yes, K mount would go; but so will the FF cameras.

I agree. I think APS-C in the smaller bodies logically plays to its strengths. I'd guess a battle against 4/3 for that segment will be played out in discussions on other forums, based on the benefits of the larger APS-C sensor.

Conversely, it would seem that to abandon such a well supported format as the K-mount would be very foolish. I guess we'll see if the D700, 5DII prove the market for a K10-like FF K in future to complete the naturalization of the sensor/mount match.

drewdlephone · 10-19-2008, 08:08 AM

So there will be FF from Pentax? Maybe that will shut everyone up.

Truth be told, I agree with some of you who have said APS-C is the entrenched digital market. Perhaps, in five years or more, when FF sensors can be had in cameras at the $1000 and under mark, that might change, but for the time being, we have a lot of lenses and a lot of customers comitted to this system. For them to pull the rug out from under these customers would be shooting themselves in the foot. Their bread and butter is currently this market.

If Pentax comes out with a FF, great. It would be nice to shut up all the Cansokon bunch. But that introduction (the K3D anyone?) won't mean much to all the budget shooters.

ogl · 10-19-2008, 10:13 PM

I think that Pentax will go with new sensor's technology which can help APS-C to reach some FF cameras in low noise at high ISO (1600-3200) without loss details more than 5%.
If we have a look at A900, we can see that it's hard to compete even with APS-C for such FF camera as Sony A900.

D700 and D3 won approx. 1-1.5 stops against K20D at ISO1600-3200.
As for DR - FF cameras are not better. If we talk about colours, it's not strong point of D3, D700, 5D MkII. At all.

Pentax will be able to offer new APS-C camera with perfectly working ISO1600 and 3200 and great colours. IMO.

10-17-2008, 08:46 AM	#5
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Pentax has already waited too long for 645D launch I follow Canon and Nikon rumors and both Canon and Nikon have already been rumoured to be working on medium format. I think Nikon has the edge since they used to make large format lenses. But Canon has already announced via a couple of their NDA Reps a hush hush 48 month roadmap that has them offering 50-60mp sensors for 35mm full frame and 25mp crop, aps-c in less than 4 years now. Canon EOS 60D DSLR - what replaces the 50D And medium format digital Leica S2 is already announced with lenses. Pricey? Heck Yes! But for working pros its just more tools for their bag. Here's medium format digital future product possibilities on my favorite rumor site for everyone's brand except pentax: Canon medium format digital 2ff camera Originally posted by philmorley well here is another? pentax interview Photokina report - pentax interview: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review News/Gossip. Amateur Photographer UK quoted in their Photokina report supplement "Informer" - in 18 October issue this week, that Pentax is again considering manufacturing their digital medium-format system. They have already developed the technology to deliver the 40-50 megapixel system. This was quoted by Toshiaki Iue, Vice President of Sales and Marketing to selected journalists. It all depends on the market research indicating if there is a big enough demand for such a model before commiting to manufacutring it. It would be Iue's preference to forge ahead with it, as a similar product is not available from either Canon or Nikon. If the research indicates that it isnt a commercial option then they are poised to go develop a FF DSLR. And that means going against against Canon and Nikon, and by Iue's own admission Pentax would be on the back foot. He did not commit to a time frame, but recognised they needed to act quickly. Only one from the above could be produced in the short term - but in the longer term if things went well, both could be eventually produced. He said Pentax was open minded about producing a Micro Four Thirds model, but feels the K-m addresses that market (apparently the 'm' stands for mini). ---- I think we have just about every combination of pentax making and/or not making a 645, FF and micro by now LOL!

10-18-2008, 04:52 AM	#6
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Philippos Personally, I doubt Leica's move will be any succesfull at all I share your doubt. Maybe, for a different reason, though. I have trouble to see that the market will eventually accept all possible sensor sizes. Photographers will have too much trouble to use them all. Just like film only existed in linear sizes stepped at least 100% apart (Pocket, 35mm, MF). For this reason, I only see a few discrete sizes to stay (diagonals in mm given): P&S (~10; 7.5 - 9.5) FT, mFT (22) 35mm FF (43) MF (75) IMHO, intermediate formats will eventually most likely die out. Because they sit in niches which aren't protected. This includes APS-C (28mm diagonal [K20D]) and the new Leica Pro format (30x45mm, 54mm diagonal). Surely, the Leica Pro format has better chances to stay than an APS-C-sensor/FF-bajonett combination... Last edited by falconeye; 10-18-2008 at 06:07 PM.

10-18-2008, 06:18 PM	#12
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by MikePerham I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I agree that my argument isn't entirely rigorous. Another option would be that APS-C is to stay and both, FF and FT, are determined to die, with digital MF taking over the combined role FF and MF had in the past. But then, the K-mount would have to be replaced by a mount delivering on the promise of the smaller image circle. The question is whether there will be 3 or 4 formats in the end. But I doubt that the market will accept more than 4. My main statement above actually, was that the Leica Pro format is yet one more format which makes me wonder how it can survive. BTW, I see signs for the 4 format path as the market seems to demand a proposition for "better than P&S but smaller than DSLR". But this sign isn't conclusive because P&S could die in favour of the phone camera segment. Last edited by falconeye; 10-18-2008 at 06:30 PM.

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10-17-2008, 03:21 AM	#1
philmorley Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: in a house in Armidale, Australia Posts: 472	another pentax interview well here is another? pentax interview Photokina report - pentax interview: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review News/Gossip. Amateur Photographer UK quoted in their Photokina report supplement "Informer" - in 18 October issue this week, that Pentax is again considering manufacturing their digital medium-format system. They have already developed the technology to deliver the 40-50 megapixel system. This was quoted by Toshiaki Iue, Vice President of Sales and Marketing to selected journalists. It all depends on the market research indicating if there is a big enough demand for such a model before commiting to manufacutring it. It would be Iue's preference to forge ahead with it, as a similar product is not available from either Canon or Nikon. If the research indicates that it isnt a commercial option then they are poised to go develop a FF DSLR. And that means going against against Canon and Nikon, and by Iue's own admission Pentax would be on the back foot. He did not commit to a time frame, but recognised they needed to act quickly. Only one from the above could be produced in the short term - but in the longer term if things went well, both could be eventually produced. He said Pentax was open minded about producing a Micro Four Thirds model, but feels the K-m addresses that market (apparently the 'm' stands for mini). ---- I think we have just about every combination of pentax making and/or not making a 645, FF and micro by now LOL!

10-17-2008, 07:10 AM	#2
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	I think they will make decision very soon. Not later this winter.

10-17-2008, 08:03 AM	#3
Philippos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Volos - Greece Posts: 178	Too little butter spread over too much bread... Personally, I doubt Leica's move will be any succesfull at all, and with the market declining so rapidly, I doubt investment on development of any custom MF system will ever pay off. For Pentax an affordable FF is a much more viable option and at this moment, as it has a much wider customer base. You can confirm it here with so many people wishing there will be some announcement before summer '09. Personally I don't need a killer camera at $3k-$4k, I would like however a decent machine at $2k, plus a chance to continue using my old FF glass. As I believe I'm near the average user, I certainly would prefer buying a car (or tour the world with my K10D) with $20K instead of buying a camera - any camera. I don't doubt that some would buy the camera, I just doubt there's enough of them to justify the investment.

10-17-2008, 08:36 AM	#4
Not Registered Guest	I dont know, I think that Nikon also announced the development a MF-like camera.

10-18-2008, 07:56 AM	#7
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by falconeye IMHO, intermediate formats will eventually most likely die out. Because they sit in niches which aren't protected. This includes APS-C (28mm diagonal [K20D]) and the new Leica Pro format (30x45mm, 54mm diagonal). Surely, the Leica Pro format has better chances to stay than an APS-C-sensor/FF-bajonett combination... I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold. I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future.

10-18-2008, 08:25 AM	#8
GaryM Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montclair, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 426	Originally posted by MikePerham I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold. I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future. Wishful thinking from FF zealots.

10-18-2008, 09:18 AM	#9
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	Originally posted by MikePerham I don't know how you can say APS-C is an intermediate format (whatever that means). What it is ...is the mainstream of DSLRs. I doubt that sales of all other formats combined would come close to equaling the number of APS-C DSLRs sold. I seriously doubt the format is going to disappear in the foreseeable future. Originally posted by GaryM Wishful thinking from FF zealots. Its been discussed soo much. But, obviously not enough for everyone. APS-C sensor doesn't fill the K-mount, which was originally designed for the 24x36 film frame, not a 16.5x23 sensor. Currently, camera companies are announcing smaller bodies with new smaller mounts (4/3 consortium, Samsungs future small DSLR line, etc) that will fit smaller sensors properly and take advantage of the smaller size - and full 24x36 sensors in existing legacy mounts. It is extremely unlikely that the current APS-C in K-mount will continue to exist once the market plays out as everyone - which ever side of the fence they currently sit on - will benefit more from one of these diverging products or the other. The interim as we know it will no longer need to exist.

10-18-2008, 03:40 PM	#10
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! It is extremely unlikely that the current APS-C in K-mount will continue to exist once the market plays out as everyone - which ever side of the fence they currently sit on - will benefit more from one of these diverging products or the other. The interim as we know it will no longer need to exist. But you are talking about two separate things here: sensor size, and lens mount. APS-C sensor can continue to exist and survive in a new lens mount (e.g. micro-K for EVIL cameras); and Samsung has hinted as such for its EVIL. As for survival of K mount, who knows how the EVIL camera market would play out. It would certainly capture the entry level for sure. But if the appetite for optical viewfinder and mirror box has completely died, then, yes, K mount would go; but so will the FF cameras.

10-18-2008, 05:56 PM	#11
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Can't imagine why anyone would bet against APSc surviving. More of them than any format except P&S. Lens mount isn't keeping companies from building small slrs. Look at the Oly mount on E420. Yes micro whatever will be smaller. Will people buy it? We shall see. my guess is for most people it will be to small. APSc film didn't replace 35mm. 35mm was too entrenched. Now APSc is entrenched with digital. thanks barondla Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!

10-18-2008, 10:23 PM	#13
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	Originally posted by nosnoop But you are talking about two separate things here: sensor size, and lens mount. APS-C sensor can continue to exist and survive in a new lens mount (e.g. micro-K for EVIL cameras); and Samsung has hinted as such for its EVIL. As for survival of K mount, who knows how the EVIL camera market would play out. It would certainly capture the entry level for sure. But if the appetite for optical viewfinder and mirror box has completely died, then, yes, K mount would go; but so will the FF cameras. I agree. I think APS-C in the smaller bodies logically plays to its strengths. I'd guess a battle against 4/3 for that segment will be played out in discussions on other forums, based on the benefits of the larger APS-C sensor. Conversely, it would seem that to abandon such a well supported format as the K-mount would be very foolish. I guess we'll see if the D700, 5DII prove the market for a K10-like FF K in future to complete the naturalization of the sensor/mount match.

10-19-2008, 08:08 AM	#14
drewdlephone Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Nanaimo, BC Posts: 261	So there will be FF from Pentax? Maybe that will shut everyone up. Truth be told, I agree with some of you who have said APS-C is the entrenched digital market. Perhaps, in five years or more, when FF sensors can be had in cameras at the $1000 and under mark, that might change, but for the time being, we have a lot of lenses and a lot of customers comitted to this system. For them to pull the rug out from under these customers would be shooting themselves in the foot. Their bread and butter is currently this market. If Pentax comes out with a FF, great. It would be nice to shut up all the Cansokon bunch. But that introduction (the K3D anyone?) won't mean much to all the budget shooters.

10-19-2008, 10:13 PM	#15
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	I think that Pentax will go with new sensor's technology which can help APS-C to reach some FF cameras in low noise at high ISO (1600-3200) without loss details more than 5%. If we have a look at A900, we can see that it's hard to compete even with APS-C for such FF camera as Sony A900. D700 and D3 won approx. 1-1.5 stops against K20D at ISO1600-3200. As for DR - FF cameras are not better. If we talk about colours, it's not strong point of D3, D700, 5D MkII. At all. Pentax will be able to offer new APS-C camera with perfectly working ISO1600 and 3200 and great colours. IMO.