[reh321]

In my opinion, more and more photographers think that Pentax is going away. I have been trying to sell a couple of nice lenses at ridiculously low prices, much lower than B&H and no one is interested. They are on the forum here and on eBay and no one is offering anything, there are only a very few viewers on ebay. Normally, when I offer something for sale, it sells fast. It really makes me wonder. What do you think?

When I purchased my KP I had all the lenses I need - a Sigma 10-20mm, a DA 18-135mm, and a DA 55-300mm - so I seldom check what is for sale, but that has nothing to do with my expecting the end of K-mount.

[monochrome]

It depends on which item - relative rarity and condition - and price asked. I suspect my near mint K lenses (complete set) would sell at my (lowered) asking price rapidly, but my Contax cameras and lenses would be a struggle.

[phoebus]

That's an objective post (sort of...). Where is the Pentax 20mm full frame autofocus available for purchase new?

The 15-30/2.8 covers that focal length... modern, sharp, WR and silent AF. Available to purchase from any participating store...

Those that complain about lack of lenses are surely complaining about lack of wide aperture PRIME lenses. The DFA zooms cover FF 15-450 without a gap.

It would be great to have OEM 20, 24 and 85 lenses that match the DFA*50/1.4, and we already know that the 85 is imminent. How many of the complainers are really going to put money where their mouth is when you're probably looking in the region of $5000 to collect those 3... ...if they all do, Ricoh should be looking forward to continue having positive financials!

[y0chang]

The 15-30/2.8 covers that focal length... modern, sharp, WR and silent AF. Available to purchase from any participating store...

Those that complain about lack of lenses are surely complaining about lack of wide aperture PRIME lenses. The DFA zooms cover FF 15-450 without a gap.

It would be great to have OEM 20, 24 and 85 lenses that match the DFA*50/1.4, and we already know that the 85 is imminent. How many of the complainers are really going to put money where their mouth is when you're probably looking in the region of $5000 to collect those 3... ...if they all do, Ricoh should be looking forward to continue having positive financials!

Its not just prime lenses, its smaller zooms as well. Lenses like a 16-35mm f4 or a 70-200mm f4 or a 70-300 f4-f5.6. I don't even want them to be DFA* quality either...just more lenses like the 28-105mm, cheap light but punches way above its weight...that is why I got into Pentax in the first place.

[RobA_Oz]

In my opinion, more and more photographers think that Pentax is going away. I have been trying to sell a couple of nice lenses at ridiculously low prices, much lower than B&H and no one is interested. They are on the forum here and on eBay and no one is offering anything, there are only a very few viewers on ebay. Normally, when I offer something for sale, it sells fast. It really makes me wonder. What do you think?

I doubt that many non-Pentax users think in that definite way about Pentax – it’s more likely, in my view, that they are looking at other options, or simply that this is another aspect of the market saturation that’s hit camera body sales. Most people who are interested quite probably have more gear than they can reasonably use, which goes for Pentax users as much as other brands. There are exceptions, of course…

[phoebus]

Its not just prime lenses, its smaller zooms as well. Lenses like a 16-35mm f4 or a 70-200mm f4 or a 70-300 f4-f5.6. I don't even want them to be DFA* quality either...just more lenses like the 28-105mm, cheap light but punches way above its weight...that is why I got into Pentax in the first place.

Fair point, but I was commenting on the 20mm that had been raised in the post I responded to. I don't think the 70-200/4 will be in the same camp as the 28-105, I suspect it will be more like the 150-450. The 70-300 (or whatever comes in that bracket) will more likely be complementing the 28-105.

[reh321]

Its not just prime lenses, its smaller zooms as well. Lenses like a 16-35mm f4 or a 70-200mm f4 or a 70-300 f4-f5.6. I don't even want them to be DFA* quality either...just more lenses like the 28-105mm, cheap light but punches way above its weight...that is why I got into Pentax in the first place.

The problem is that various people 'got into Pentax' for various reasons - and Ricoh does not have a large enough lens operation to completely cover the needs of every person.

[gazonk]

Its not just prime lenses, its smaller zooms as well. Lenses like a 16-35mm f4 or a 70-200mm f4 or a 70-300 f4-f5.6. I don't even want them to be DFA* quality either...just more lenses like the 28-105mm, cheap light but punches way above its weight...that is why I got into Pentax in the first place.

We sure need those lenses, but I think Ricoh was wise to introduce the 2.8 trinity first, to establish the K-1 as a pro-level camera. Just read all the complaints about Nikon Z, where the consumer-grade lenses have been released first, with the exception of a 24-70 and the over-the-top Noct.

[Rondec]

In my opinion, more and more photographers think that Pentax is going away. I have been trying to sell a couple of nice lenses at ridiculously low prices, much lower than B&H and no one is interested. They are on the forum here and on eBay and no one is offering anything, there are only a very few viewers on ebay. Normally, when I offer something for sale, it sells fast. It really makes me wonder. What do you think?

Some lenses go fast and others not. In my experience lenses like the limiteds and higher end gear that is in good shape, complete with boxes and original packaging sells quickly with a decent price. Lower grade lenses and third party gear tend to take longer to sell. I think the issue is that many of the people interested in such lenses already own them.

[Cerebum]

I was talking to a canonista in Cadiz and he knew all about Pentax and his little eyes lit up when I let him have a play with my KP and 35mm limited. I got the impression we are viewed as niche, somewhere between Olympus and Leica (but much nearer to Olympus than leica ) although, in the UK we are discounted, utterly. I need to move to Spain

[MMVIII]

German magazine photoscala posted some information on financial results and outlooks from other manufacturers, might be interesting for comparison and there are some interesting comments from the other companies on the development of the market (mirrorless etc.). I think it might be useful for some market experts here to read what the companies competing on this market have to say.

Halbjahresbilanzen von Canon, Nikon & Co.: So steht es um die wichtigsten Kamerahersteller | photoscala (translated by me and DeepL):

"Canon struggles with revenue and earnings losses
At Canon, the current financial year began on 1 January and the current figures refer to the third quarter. Canon's camera business is expected to record a decline in sales of a good 16 percent, with a decline of almost 23 percent forecast for the current year. After all, Canon continues to make money with its imaging business. However, the beautiful returns are a thing of the past, with a return on sales of only 7.3 percent forecast for the current financial year.
Canon sees the sharp drop in demand for entry-level DSLRs as the reason for the decline in sales and profits. So far, it has not been compensated by the new sophisticated 35mm mirrorless products of the EOS-R family - also because an unexpectedly strong price war has broken out here for Canon.

Fujifilm also weakens
At Fujifilm, a new fiscal year starts on April 1, like at the other camera manufacturers, so now the half-year results are available. The digital camera business in particular is weakening (-16 % sales). But also the high-turnover business unit "Photo Imaging" with its Instax products had to suffer (-11 %).
For the current fiscal year, Fujifilm Imaging Solutions expects a decline in sales of around twelve percent. Operating profit will be halved compared to the previous year, and a return on sales of almost seven percent is expected.

Nikon will slide into the red
Nikon's sales also slumped. The Imaging Products Business is still making a meager profit, with a return on sales of less than two percent. "Still": Nikon expects to close the current business year in the Imaging division with a (small) loss. Especially bitter for Nikon: Imaging still accounts for almost half of total sales. What is missing here cannot be easily compensated by other business areas.
Nikon is quite frank in its assessment of the market as being larger. That's why the forecasts now have to be revised downwards. In addition, the introduction of mirrorless products has not led to the expected improvement in sales and earnings.

Olympus Imaging does not come out of the low point
Olympus Imaging lost 17 percent of sales in the first half of the year and again reported a loss. Small ray of hope: The net loss was almost halved compared to the same period last year. However, Olympus points out that the high loss in the previous year was mainly due to the restructuring of production, i.e. the relocation of production from China to Vietnam.
A difficult market environment is responsible for the weak sales in the current half-year. In addition, the relocation of production has meant that hardly any new products have been introduced to date. Forecasts for the current financial year remain bleak, with Olympus again expecting a negative result.
However, the company as a whole will cope well with Olympus' weak camera business. In the meantime, it no longer accounts for more than ten percent of total sales; the endoscope division alone has twice as much profit as the camera division.

Sony remains stable
Sony no longer reports its camera division separately since the beginning of this fiscal year. Only sales and unit figures can still be found in the current report. According to the report, Sony sold around 20 percent fewer cameras in the first half of the year than in the previous year. Sales, on the other hand, declined by only about five percent.
How Sony sees the future of the camera business remains unclear. It is probably surprising that Sony has the smallest loss in turnover to report, although Canon and Nikon have meanwhile joined the competition for mirrorless 35 mm systems."

[Serkevan]

Sounds about right. Canikon are bleeding money to bring FF MILC systems to market at blazing-fast speeds (let's be honest, what they've put out in basically one year is impressive), but they are not seeing a lot of returns. The new offerings don't seem enough to make a meaningful change: let's be honest, the gains in performance from the new RF and Z lenses are meager at best unless you're a very specific type of photographer, and the cost is ridiculously high. No wonder that people are reluctant.

About Sony, since their loss in revenue (~7.5% for H1-2019 compared to H1-2018) is lower than the loss in camera sales, we can infer that the price per unit has gone up. This might mean that their profit has actually increased as, typically, more expensive units have better margins.

[Chris Mak]

Sounds about right. Canikon are bleeding money to bring FF MILC systems to market at blazing-fast speeds (let's be honest, what they've put out in basically one year is impressive), but they are not seeing a lot of returns.

Canon hás to establish its mirrorless line, or they will not be future proof and suffer a lot more a few years down the line. People don't realize what a luxury position Pentax is in with its dwarf like scale. They can just stroll along and take five years between the development announcement and the release of a lens like the 85mm f1.4. Canon can not stroll along like that, they are too big and would suffer too much. So they have to take up the gauntlet and in doing so give some malicious delight to Pentaxians, who know that Pentax disappearing from the camera market might not even be noticed at all by many. It has its benefits to be "too small to fail"...

[Serkevan]

Canon hás to establish its mirrorless line, or they will not be future proof and suffer a lot more a few years down the line. People don't realize what a luxury position Pentax is in with its dwarf like scale. They can just stroll along and take five years between the development announcement and the release of a lens like the 85mm f1.4. Canon can not stroll along like that, they are too big and would suffer too much. So they have to take up the gauntlet and in doing so give some malicious delight to Pentaxians, who know that Pentax disappearing from the camera market might not even be noticed at all by many. It has its benefits to be "too small to fail"...

I know that. They have been in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position for some years now: their large consumer base means they attract the "mainstream" of people who don't particularly care much about this or that brand as long as it gets the job done and "rings a bell". It is hard to strategically downsize when the fickle masses decide their smartphones are good enough, or enthusiasts feel like their diminishing purchasing power cannot sustain a 3000€ lens every year.
People who chose Pentax, I would think, did so with a clearer intent. That makes it a smaller, yet stauncher, user base. More resilient, hopefully.

[Mistral75]

German magazine photoscala posted some information on financial results and outlooks from other manufacturers, might be interesting for comparison and there are some interesting comments from the other companies on the development of the market (mirrorless etc.). I think it might be useful for some market experts here to read what the companies competing on this market have to say.

Halbjahresbilanzen von Canon, Nikon & Co.: So steht es um die wichtigsten Kamerahersteller | photoscala (translated by me and DeepL):

(...)

(cross-posting from another thread)

All data below are comparable except that Sony and Canon include video cameras (not cinema cameras nor broadcast cameras) in their reporting. Panasonic are not listed because they don't report any data on their camera business. Sigma aren't included either: as a family business, not a listed company, they are not required to report any data.

From left to right: Q1, Q2, Q3 and 9-month data.



First of all, it should be noted that the market decline (CIPA shipments in ¥) is slowing quarter after quarter: -20.7% for Q1, -17.4% for Q2 and -14% for Q3.

Ricoh Imaging are the only camera manufacturer showing growth in sales (in operating profit too). That's because of the success of the Ricoh GR III and, to a lesser extent, the Ricoh Theta ecosystem. (I have no global data but, at least in Europe, Pentax sales are following a minus 20% trend.)

If we rank the companies according to the variation in their sales between the first nine months of 2018 and the first nine months of 2019, we obtain the following:

1. Ricoh: the only one growing
2. Sony: -7.5%
3. Fujifilm: -11.9%
4. Olympus: -19.7%
5. Nikon: -21.2%
6. Canon: -21.6%