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11-14-2019, 07:25 PM - 1 Like   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
MILCs run much hotter than DSLRs.
That's why Pentax made the K-01 a very good heat sink.

11-14-2019, 11:51 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by mlt Quote
That still leaves the EOS-M system as an odd duck in Canonís financial equation. With limited native lenses that cannot be used on a Canon R body, so no direct upgrade path, that system seems like an orphan in waiting. Particularly if an APSC R mount body is ever introduced.
Yes, unfortunatelly EOS M doesn't look apealing on the long term given the mount.
11-15-2019, 12:10 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
In principle, the EVF is the only added component but that doesn't mean a MILC is just a DSLR motherboard with a second display. Making a decent MILC requires a very high frame rate on the sensor, CPU, and graphics subsystems -- MILCs need more expensive chips than DSLRs to support a decent EVF experience.

As far as failure is concerned -- unlike a DSLR, using a MILC means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF full blast continuously. MILCs run much hotter than DSLRs and high temperatures are bad for electronics -- creating both component failures and connection failures from thermal stress cycling.
Interestingly enough, no long run tests seem to have ever been conducted, for example to evaluate IQ comparative depletion.
This would be quite interesting imho...
11-15-2019, 12:57 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Originally posted by photoptimist QuoteIn principle, the EVF is the only added component but that doesn't mean a MILC is just a DSLR motherboard with a second display. Making a decent MILC requires a very high frame rate on the sensor, CPU, and graphics subsystems -- MILCs need more expensive chips than DSLRs to support a decent EVF experience.As far as failure is concerned -- unlike a DSLR, using a MILC means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF full blast continuously. MILCs run much hotter than DSLRs and high temperatures are bad for electronics -- creating both component failures and connection failures from thermal stress cycling.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Interestingly enough, no long run tests seem to have ever been conducted, for example to evaluate IQ comparative depletion
Really? Don't electronic manufacturers perform accelerated aging tests on their designs before releasing those designs to market?
Would camera manufacturers just put products to market and then see if they need to grow their after sales / repair department depending on the amount of customer returns?

11-15-2019, 01:10 AM   #170
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I am wondering for final product abilities, not industry makers...
I was thinking of "independent" testers, comparing e.g. Pentax KP versus Sony A6500 sensors in a long typical using procedure (including photo and video).
11-15-2019, 02:10 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I am wondering for final product abilities, not industry makers...
I was thinking of "independent" testers, comparing e.g. Pentax KP versus Sony A6500 sensors in a long typical using procedure (including photo and video).
By "long typical using procedure" do you mean tests done for several months or just a day test? I'm asking because I've done side by side tests between EOS R and 5D Mark IV quite a few times before buying the EOS R and I haven't noticed differences in terms of performance shooting side by side in the same conditions.
11-15-2019, 04:58 AM   #172
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I mean enough time / shots to detect sensible IQ depletion.

11-15-2019, 05:41 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I mean enough time / shots to detect sensible IQ depletion.
Ask me again in 6-8 months because by that time Canon will release another mirrorless camera and if it will have features that I want (a better EVF with less lag and more fps) I will switch completely to mirrorless. Until then I can detect if there are sensible IQ depletion between EOS R and 5D Mark IV.
11-15-2019, 05:56 AM   #174
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OK, maybe no difference will be seemingly seeable
11-15-2019, 06:25 AM   #175
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I had a quick look at said results document. The name Pentax is not mentioned in the document. There are two pictures of Ricoh branded cameras, though.

FWIW, Smart Vision sales were down 5.8% year on year, not terrible news.

There's not much to see, folks.
11-15-2019, 07:20 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Longevity isn't a problem on MILC cameras because all models of 2018 will be obsolete by 2021. Sony understood that rapidely with their Sony A7 series, they moved to China for the manufacturing, since reliability isn't relevant when camera products are made obsolete every other year (even a $3500 camera). The trend with cameras is increasing prices of already expensive devices of consumer grade quality.
That's odd, because my a7III is made in Thailand (brand new, made sometime after May as it came with the latest FW). Not that it makes a difference, go where labor is cheaper. Pentax makes their stuff in the Philippines, and as long as the tooling is up to date, eh, and camera failures or lens variation never occur in Pentaxland. In spite of the all the QA/QC, failures happen.

Sony may assemble in different countries, but that would make sense, as I remember when the flooding in Thailand about a decade ago raised hard drive prices, as it was basically a primary location were they were made. Now, I think the manufacture is more varied.

I am curious what the sources are on MILC failure rates vs dSLRs. I'm also guessing they do NVH testing.
11-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Really? Don't electronic manufacturers perform accelerated aging tests on their designs before releasing those designs to market?
Would camera manufacturers just put products to market and then see if they need to grow their after sales / repair department depending on the amount of customer returns?
I don't believe the "aging" is very accurate - otherwise Pentax would have discovered the solenoid problem before the first K-30 was sold.
11-15-2019, 08:19 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Longevity isn't a problem on MILC cameras because all models of 2018 will be obsolete by 2021. Sony understood that rapidely with their Sony A7 series, they moved to China for the manufacturing, since reliability isn't relevant when camera products are made obsolete every other year (even a $3500 camera). The trend with cameras is increasing prices of already expensive devices of consumer grade quality.
I do not believe that aging is any more of a problem with MILC than with DSLR. Even if a company releases a new camera every year, there is not reason to think the average consumer feels obligated to purchase a new camera every year. I know I am not typical, but I purchased a used-like-new K-30 is 2015. I skipped the K-S2 and went to the KP .... and I probably would have skipped it too if it weren't for the {fulfilled} promise of graceful higher ISO values. I am quite sure that some users are using a Sony from four or five years ago, and we would have heard screaming if Sony had done a lousy job of constructing them.
11-15-2019, 08:28 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
I had a quick look at said results document. The name Pentax is not mentioned in the document. There are two pictures of Ricoh branded cameras, though.

FWIW, Smart Vision sales were down 5.8% year on year, not terrible news.

There's not much to see, folks.
They were not. The sales of the entire 'Other' business segment were, the cause being the divestment of some businesses. 'Other' is roughly 8 to 10 times bigger than Smart Vision.
11-15-2019, 08:33 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
That's why Pentax made the K-01 a very good heat sink.
Yes, there is an engineering solution to almost any problem - the question is whether there is a practical solution. Based on reported issues, the answer to the heat question appears to be "yes".
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