Ricoh's financial results for Q2 - Pentax still not doomed.

reh321 · 12-03-2019, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Yes, it does bring damage to the brand image. If not for this solenoid problem, the K-30 / 50 / 70 beats the crap out of all entry level cameras of all brands. It pushed me back from purchasing a much discounted K-S2 last July. I didn't like to inherit such problem.

The evidence is that aperture control reliability is much higher in the K-S2 and K-70 than it was in the K-30 and K-50, but the problem still there in some form. I still believe Ricoh never found any reliable way of testing this function other than seeing what happened in the field. They now have their answer; since Ricoh seems unwilling to provide a special warranty over that part of camera, my view is that they should abandon the solenoid-based design. We shall see what the future brings.

**mlt** · 12-03-2019, 09:00 PM

The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so.

reh321 · 12-03-2019, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by mlt

The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so.

There are very few affordable KAF4 lenses. Until Pentax releases a 18-x KAF4 lens (*), they have to provide a reliable consistent mechanical aperture control in all their "APS-C" bodies.

(*) where x > 50

totsmuyco · 12-03-2019, 10:37 PM

Agree. They should abandon the solenoid based design. It pushes people away from buying into Pentax.

Mistral75 · 12-03-2019, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by reh321

There are very few affordable KAF4 lenses. (...)

There are very few KAF4 lenses, full stop. Two actually: the 55-300mm PLM RE and the D FA☆ 50mm f/1.4.

**Serkevan** · 12-04-2019, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by mlt

The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so.

You still need to have aperture control in the camera for older lenses, though.

Ronald Oakes · 12-04-2019, 01:05 AM

Linda told me , that her friends sister Judy, says her husband told her, that his best friend Philip ,said that Pentax has been ready to go under for the last couple years !
Spoken by a life long Nikkonian !…..I would say this is substantiated proof that Pentax truly is Doomed !
When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon was the ONLY camera able to use all the Legacy glass and still had the same mount as their film cameras !
There we have it !......PROOF !

Last edited by Ronald Oakes; 12-04-2019 at 01:11 AM.

Reed · 12-04-2019, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Agree. They should abandon the solenoid based design. It pushes people away from buying into Pentax.

Problem is not within the electromagnet design, but with materials used for K-30/K-50/K-500 & K-S1/S2. This aperture control solution has been used by Pentax since early 90's, and problem occurred when quality part made in Japan was changed to way cheaper substitute made in China along with capacitors that also proved to be worse than those used before. That small electromagnet is a quite common part used extensively in other devices such as PC dvd/cd drives and hifi devices with cd drive.

totsmuyco · 12-04-2019, 02:44 AM

Yes I've read somewhere here that it was the quality control when they subcontracted it to a manufacturer in China. Still, they haven't resolved the issue and would charge a high price for the repair. I have read some complaints from K-70 users and someone posted a sample effect in this forum about a month or two ago. If they can't manufacture it themselves or come up with the proper quality control for subcontractors, maybe they should follow the KP's design to avoid such problems.

Mistral75 · 12-04-2019, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Ronald Oakes

(...)
When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon (...) still had the same mount as their film cameras !
(...)

Indeed they do. Asahi Optical / Pentax used three successive mounts for their SLRs (M37, M42 and K), Nikon only used one, the F mount.

edri · 12-04-2019, 03:33 AM - **1 Like**

I had the impression that Pentax offers the best compatibility with all old lenses, but it seems that it is not.

BarneyL · 12-04-2019, 03:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Ronald Oakes

When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon was the ONLY camera able to use all the Legacy glass and still had the same mount as their film cameras !

Tell him to mount Nikon-S rangefinder lens on his DSLR

Originally posted by edri

I had the impression that Pentax offers the best compatibility with all old lenses, but it seems that it is not.

Indeed, Pentax never provided M42 adapter that provides auto aperture closing (some camera makers that switched from M42 to a bayonet did provide such option - namely Mamiya and Fujifilm) and since late film era, the 'crippled' K mount can't read the position of aperture lever 'simulator' on lens, therefore lenses without electrical contacts need stop down metering.

However, Nikon also has its share of problems with legacy glass, mostly non-AI lenses that don't meter on DSLRs (except Nikon Df), and screw-driven AF lenses that don't autofocus on D3xxx and D5xxx series of bodies.

xmeda · 12-04-2019, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Yes I've read somewhere here that it was the quality control when they subcontracted it to a manufacturer in China. Still, they haven't resolved the issue and would charge a high price for the repair. I have read some complaints from K-70 users and someone posted a sample effect in this forum about a month or two ago. If they can't manufacture it themselves or come up with the proper quality control for subcontractors, maybe they should follow the KP's design to avoid such problems.

It is like with SDM...

Quiet, dying lenses, quiet, angry users, quiet, loosing customers, quiet, loosing brand image, quiet, loosing market, quiet...

Other companies would do recall or free of charge repair of such issue. They needed some significant statement: "We do apologize to our dearest customers, SDM issue was identified, motor design was improved and tested, all lenses since serial number XXX now have the updated motor version. All lenses prior this date will be fixed within warranty.."

Just look how for example Sigma behaved with K mount lenses and flange being too big, that it scratched K1.... they are replacing mounts on lenses even many years after warranty. Even now when they are done with K mount... I got my Sig35/1.4 mount replaced this autumn. They also do firmware change to old HSM lenses that were not updated before in KX era when live-view autofocus was implemented to Pentax.

THAT IS CUSTOMER CARE! And this is just cosmetic issue... you can use those lenses anyway.

---------- Post added 04-12-19 at 12:04 PM ----------

Originally posted by edri

I had the impression that Pentax offers the best compatibility with all old lenses, but it seems that it is not.

You can use any Pentax K/M42 lens on any body.. If your lens is older than the body. Opposite direction is limited in some cases. And there also is something special - AF adaptor 1.7x AF TC for manual lenses. (But now some Sony adaptor can do basically the same.)

You Tube

Mistral75 · 12-04-2019, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by xmeda

(...) there also is something special - AF adaptor 1.7x AF TC for manual lenses. (But now some Sony adaptor can do basically the same.)

(...)

A feature shared with the Nikon AF Teleconverter TC-16/16A, which came out a couple of years earlier.

xmeda · 12-04-2019, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

A feature shared with the Nikon AF Teleconverter TC-16/16A, which came out a couple of years earlier.

Maybe, but does not work on D3xxx and D5xxx bodies, so compatibility... ehm. Does it work with AF-S motorized lenses somehow? Or M42?

12-04-2019, 03:36 AM - 1 Like	#207
BarneyL Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 899	Originally posted by Ronald Oakes When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon was the ONLY camera able to use all the Legacy glass and still had the same mount as their film cameras ! Tell him to mount Nikon-S rangefinder lens on his DSLR Originally posted by edri I had the impression that Pentax offers the best compatibility with all old lenses, but it seems that it is not. Indeed, Pentax never provided M42 adapter that provides auto aperture closing (some camera makers that switched from M42 to a bayonet did provide such option - namely Mamiya and Fujifilm) and since late film era, the 'crippled' K mount can't read the position of aperture lever 'simulator' on lens, therefore lenses without electrical contacts need stop down metering. However, Nikon also has its share of problems with legacy glass, mostly non-AI lenses that don't meter on DSLRs (except Nikon Df), and screw-driven AF lenses that don't autofocus on D3xxx and D5xxx series of bodies. Last edited by BarneyL; 12-04-2019 at 03:44 AM.

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12-03-2019, 08:56 PM	#196
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by totsmuyco Yes, it does bring damage to the brand image. If not for this solenoid problem, the K-30 / 50 / 70 beats the crap out of all entry level cameras of all brands. It pushed me back from purchasing a much discounted K-S2 last July. I didn't like to inherit such problem. The evidence is that aperture control reliability is much higher in the K-S2 and K-70 than it was in the K-30 and K-50, but the problem still there in some form. I still believe Ricoh never found any reliable way of testing this function other than seeing what happened in the field. They now have their answer; since Ricoh seems unwilling to provide a special warranty over that part of camera, my view is that they should abandon the solenoid-based design. We shall see what the future brings.

12-03-2019, 09:00 PM	#197
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so.

12-03-2019, 09:07 PM	#198
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by mlt The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so. There are very few affordable KAF4 lenses. Until Pentax releases a 18-x KAF4 lens (), they have to provide a reliable consistent mechanical aperture control in all their "APS-C" bodies. () where x > 50

12-03-2019, 10:37 PM	#199
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Agree. They should abandon the solenoid based design. It pushes people away from buying into Pentax.

12-03-2019, 11:59 PM	#200
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by reh321 There are very few affordable KAF4 lenses. (...) There are very few KAF4 lenses, full stop. Two actually: the 55-300mm PLM RE and the D FA☆ 50mm f/1.4.

12-04-2019, 12:15 AM	#201
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by mlt The future s K-AF4 and hopefully all new lenses will be so. You still need to have aperture control in the camera for older lenses, though.

12-04-2019, 01:05 AM	#202
Ronald Oakes Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,585	Linda told me , that her friends sister Judy, says her husband told her, that his best friend Philip ,said that Pentax has been ready to go under for the last couple years ! Spoken by a life long Nikkonian !…..I would say this is substantiated proof that Pentax truly is Doomed ! When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon was the ONLY camera able to use all the Legacy glass and still had the same mount as their film cameras ! There we have it !......PROOF ! Last edited by Ronald Oakes; 12-04-2019 at 01:11 AM.

12-04-2019, 02:15 AM	#203
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Originally posted by totsmuyco Agree. They should abandon the solenoid based design. It pushes people away from buying into Pentax. Problem is not within the electromagnet design, but with materials used for K-30/K-50/K-500 & K-S1/S2. This aperture control solution has been used by Pentax since early 90's, and problem occurred when quality part made in Japan was changed to way cheaper substitute made in China along with capacitors that also proved to be worse than those used before. That small electromagnet is a quite common part used extensively in other devices such as PC dvd/cd drives and hifi devices with cd drive.

12-04-2019, 02:44 AM	#204
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Yes I've read somewhere here that it was the quality control when they subcontracted it to a manufacturer in China. Still, they haven't resolved the issue and would charge a high price for the repair. I have read some complaints from K-70 users and someone posted a sample effect in this forum about a month or two ago. If they can't manufacture it themselves or come up with the proper quality control for subcontractors, maybe they should follow the KP's design to avoid such problems.

12-04-2019, 03:02 AM	#205
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Ronald Oakes (...) When I spoke to him personally , he also disclosed that Nikon (...) still had the same mount as their film cameras ! (...) Indeed they do. Asahi Optical / Pentax used three successive mounts for their SLRs (M37, M42 and K), Nikon only used one, the F mount.

12-04-2019, 03:33 AM - 1 Like	#206
edri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: walking in the air Posts: 1,315	I had the impression that Pentax offers the best compatibility with all old lenses, but it seems that it is not.

12-04-2019, 04:16 AM	#209
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by xmeda (...) there also is something special - AF adaptor 1.7x AF TC for manual lenses. (But now some Sony adaptor can do basically the same.) (...) A feature shared with the Nikon AF Teleconverter TC-16/16A, which came out a couple of years earlier.

12-04-2019, 04:58 AM	#210
xmeda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brno Posts: 295	Originally posted by Mistral75 A feature shared with the Nikon AF Teleconverter TC-16/16A, which came out a couple of years earlier. Maybe, but does not work on D3xxx and D5xxx bodies, so compatibility... ehm. Does it work with AF-S motorized lenses somehow? Or M42?