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02-14-2020, 12:58 AM - 2 Likes   #1441
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
K-1/K-1II screen is design masterpiece in that terms. That should be sold as one of its key features, but we known how the advertising works for our brand.
I had the rare honour of "selling" the Pentax K-1 to half a dozen professional wedding photographers (lots of people involved in that wedding - I was a guest and the 'togs were interviewing some of us as part of a short movie for the bride&groom). The screen raised some eyebrows, and so did the LEDs for night photography
It's an incredible machine, now I'm just sad I don't have the top tier lenses to really push it

02-14-2020, 03:39 AM - 3 Likes   #1442
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At this point, I think folks had better be prepared for no flippy screen on this model. Obviously no one knows for sure, but the prototypes didn't have it. As to why not, it is hard to say. Maybe to keep cost down a bit, maybe to keep size down a bit, or maybe just because this is more of a true K3 II sequel and that camera doesn't have a swivel screen.

Regardless, I think the odds are good that this won't sway most people's decision very much at all. People who weren't going to buy the camera anyway will say that they aren't buying it because it doesn't have a swivel screen, but the reality will be that they weren't going to buy it anyway. People who have been really desirous of a K3 II sequel will buy it. They may complain a bit about certain features, but assuming the auto focus and other specs are what they need to be, they'll just get it.

Once we start seeing images from this camera, the discussion will change and in a good way. There will be a few people who don't think the colors are quite right or there is too much smoothing at iso 12K, but most people will be excited by the progress that we see compared to previous generation of cameras. But it seems like that is a little way off.

This fall maybe?
02-14-2020, 03:51 AM   #1443
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote

This fall maybe?
My tax return date should be April I guess. Why to wait?
02-14-2020, 03:55 AM - 2 Likes   #1444
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
My tax return date should be April I guess. Why to wait?
The issue is when Pentax releases it. Once again, if our expectations are for a later release date, we will be pleasantly surprised when it comes out sooner. If we set our sites on July and it is October, we will be more upset, even when it gets here./

02-14-2020, 04:09 AM - 1 Like   #1445
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
At this point, I think folks had better be prepared for no flippy screen on this model. Obviously no one knows for sure, but the prototypes didn't have it. As to why not, it is hard to say. Maybe to keep cost down a bit, maybe to keep size down a bit, or maybe just because this is more of a true K3 II sequel and that camera doesn't have a swivel screen.

Regardless, I think the odds are good that this won't sway most people's decision very much at all. People who weren't going to buy the camera anyway will say that they aren't buying it because it doesn't have a swivel screen, but the reality will be that they weren't going to buy it anyway. People who have been really desirous of a K3 II sequel will buy it. They may complain a bit about certain features, but assuming the auto focus and other specs are what they need to be, they'll just get it.

Once we start seeing images from this camera, the discussion will change and in a good way. There will be a few people who don't think the colors are quite right or there is too much smoothing at iso 12K, but most people will be excited by the progress that we see compared to previous generation of cameras. But it seems like that is a little way off.

This fall maybe?
If I would plan to own only one body than fixed screen would be a no go for me. But cameras like any other tools are made for different tasks, there will never be one that is the best in everything.
02-14-2020, 07:40 AM - 5 Likes   #1446
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QuoteOriginally posted by taktoon Quote
If I would plan to own only one body than fixed screen would be a no go for me. But cameras like any other tools are made for different tasks, there will never be one that is the best in everything.
No fixed screen on the K-new, an day K-3 still working great, might mean I wait and see if the K-new !! has a flip screen. Same with GPS. I actually avoid taking my K-3 for macros and take my K-1. If the K-new has no flip screen it will be in the same boat. I'd really like an APS-c body that takes advantage of the APS_c pixel density advantage for macros.

Everyone is talking about action cameras like the D500, I think you're really optimistic if you think Pentax is going to introduce all the upgrades needed to achieve that. Fast AF, faster buffer clearing, dedicated AF unit etc. I'm not expecting the K-new to be a top tier action camera.

So in essence, taking away the tilt screen doesn't make it more like an action camera, it just makes it less like a field camera. I'd love it if Pentax could approach Nikon/Canon type specs for tracking, but I don't think that's a field Pentax wants to compete in. They want to be incrementally better than they are, not shooting for best in class. I'll be shocked if they do. And disappointed as well. I need good tracking on average maybe once year. I'm not buying a camera for that. I costs me nothing to just pass on those images. As far as I can remember, the last time I used tracking



It worked perfectly. But that was June 9, 2016
Other images











All shot with AF.s. But, those are my bird in the air shots from 8 years shooting. Unless you consciously go to places where tracking is necessary for the images you want, it's a pretty niche function. I see images of bike races etc. but, they don't have those in Whitney. I'm not terribly interested in functions I'm not going use. And this notion that Pentax can just pull Sony, Canikon tracking AF out of a hat is somewhat speculative. They can try. Whether it will stack up with the competitions is an unknown.

An improved version of what you do well is better than a poor version of what you're never done.

Opinions of what the K-new will be will best be addressed when the camera is released. As a small manufacturer with not many product lines, they have a lot of different ways they could go. Everyone wants something different. They won't be pleasing everyone. Better to please the ones who are already happy with their current direction, rather than add a lot of cost to a camera for functions only used by niche shooters. At this point Pentax could put out the best tracking system ever invented and not bring in a single new customer. Their lack of fast focusing long lenses would seriously come back to bite them. People who need fast tracking have it (from other brands.) . Even if Pentax were to completely catch up, what would be the incentive to switch? Pentax would have to kick their buts plus come up with new long fast glass in a hurry. Fast AF is a system function. The body is just one of the parts.

Smart people who don't need fast accurate tracking have Pentaxes. It's almost part of the definition of Pentax users.

Last edited by normhead; 02-14-2020 at 09:03 AM.
02-14-2020, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #1447
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
All shot with AF.s.
I thought the tracking mode is AF.C. What do you mean by "tracking" in case of AF.S? (Catch-in-focus…?)


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The issue is when Pentax releases it. Once again, if our expectations are for a later release date, we will be pleasantly surprised when it comes out sooner. If we set our sites on July and it is October, we will be more upset, even when it gets here./

Well, that's a wise attitude which might prevent some of us from getting disappointed.
02-14-2020, 09:09 AM - 1 Like   #1448
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
I thought the tracking mode is AF.C. What do you mean by "tracking" in case of AF.S? (Catch-in-focus…?)
MY point being that in the Pentax world, the AF.s is so fast in many cases what others would use Tracking for, Pentax can do with AF.s. There are techniques that can be effectively used to make up for lack of great tracking. One as simple as setting the camera to AF.s and tracking with the hot single focus point using hand eye co-ordination. I thought AF.c tracking was cool when I used it. I've never thought it was necessary.

If you can get images like that with AF.s , why do you need tracking?

02-14-2020, 10:13 AM - 1 Like   #1449
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
MY point being that in the Pentax world, the AF.s is so fast in many cases what others would use Tracking for, Pentax can do with AF.s. There are techniques that can be effectively used to make up for lack of great tracking. One as simple as setting the camera to AF.s and tracking with the hot single focus point using hand eye co-ordination. I thought AF.c tracking was cool when I used it. I've never thought it was necessary.

If you can get images like that with AF.s , why do you need tracking?
OK, I got it.
02-14-2020, 10:42 AM   #1450
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If the k_new can teather the screen view to a mobile device, all cases of tilt screens where a tripod is used are covered imho.
I can understand some would miss it, but there is a well rounded concept for a tilt free top line aps-c.
Today I tracked a few fast birds over sea water with the K3 II and the (very old) F70-210. AF.C with 9 point auto select was working ok for that. Not on par with many other cameras on the market but still good enough to catch the shots. A bird flying directly in my direction however was a sure miss. This is where I switch to mf on the k3II.
Would have been interesting to compare to the K1 II, but I did not take it today.
02-14-2020, 11:02 AM   #1451
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
I tracked a few fast birds over sea water with the K3 II and the (very old) F70-210. AF.C with 9 point auto select was working ok for that.
That lens prior to the release of the "modern glass series" all the DFAs and the DA 55-300 PLM was Pentax's fastest focusing lens, at least among the ones I own. However, when it locks focus it can break your wrist.

Where does all that torque come from?
02-14-2020, 12:28 PM   #1452
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That lens prior to the release of the "modern glass series" all the DFAs and the DA 55-300 PLM was Pentax's fastest focusing lens, at least among the ones I own. However, when it locks focus it can break your wrist.

Where does all that torque come from?
Yeah, this lense is so responsive to handle you fear something breaks. Still it survived for decades now.
02-14-2020, 12:28 PM - 2 Likes   #1453
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I think from a consumer perspective, having top notch AF tracking is something that is highly desirable and marketable. I mean, sure technique and user skill can compensate for lack of the latest and greatest AF tracking technologies but I think for most people they don't have the time to spend honing those skills. Some folks, like me, just want to be able to take my camera out and have some confidence that the technology in my camera is going to help me as much as possible so I can get those extra 10 or 20 action shots that are keepers.

It's correct that many do not need advanced AF technology and tracking - but when the competition is doing it, why not join the party?

For me, the one big thing I'm hoping the next camera has is a massive improvement in AF abilities. It might be a crutch, and one might still have to rely on human technique and skill, but there will also be times when it saves me the trouble.
02-14-2020, 01:25 PM - 1 Like   #1454
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A professional also has a lot of advantages with good af systems. When one thing just works, you can concentrate on something else, which in the end results in better pictures.
From half a day playing with eye af on a collegues camera I learnd, how easy portrait focusing can be for tight low dof portraits with face filling the frame.
Usually I need to mf, because the af never hits exactly the eye, more like nose or eye lashes. If I or the model move I loose focus slightly. The pictures are usually still ok, but not quite perfect. The eye af of the alpha 9 II ( imho a great camera if you like mirrorless and strangly sorted menus) worked that well I could just concentrate on finding the perfect moment.
A professional may be faster with all of this, but he will get use from a better af too.
02-14-2020, 01:59 PM - 1 Like   #1455
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcleary47 Quote
I think from a consumer perspective, having top notch AF tracking is something that is highly desirable and marketable. I mean, sure technique and user skill can compensate for lack of the latest and greatest AF tracking technologies but I think for most people they don't have the time to spend honing those skills. Some folks, like me, just want to be able to take my camera out and have some confidence that the technology in my camera is going to help me as much as possible so I can get those extra 10 or 20 action shots that are keepers.

It's correct that many do not need advanced AF technology and tracking - but when the competition is doing it, why not join the party?

For me, the one big thing I'm hoping the next camera has is a massive improvement in AF abilities. It might be a crutch, and one might still have to rely on human technique and skill, but there will also be times when it saves me the trouble.
"Massive improvement" over what? My KP {plus PLM lens} is already a massive improvement over the K-30 {plus preceding 55-300 lens} that proceeded it.
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