New information about new flagship's selling date

**mlt** · 11-10-2019, 11:13 AM - **1 Like**

Interesting. Would the “name unpleasant” be more akin to “not what he expected”?

**Larrymc** · 11-10-2019, 11:28 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

Yes I did but what has this to do with the picture in reply #32 not being 'the press photo from Ricoh', as you wrote before?

Sorry for the confusion.

The photo you posted from Tanaka san's blog shows the tape rather sloppily reapplied where as the Pentax release photos show carefully applied tape. That tells me that the tape has been removed by someone who was curios about the name and then it was re-applied after looking at the name. The culprit who removed the tape could have been Tanaka san.

As for the other paragraph it was regarding Karen's post that the release date would be much later than most expect. to paraphrase, you said the camera was pretty much complete but probably needed the firmware tweaked to complete the system.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

**mlt** · 11-10-2019, 11:36 AM

Now we have what appears to be re-applied tape. Is this the beginnings of “tape-gate” comments on what he did or did not see?

:

Kunzite · 11-10-2019, 11:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

but we feel one; during CP+ almost a year ago, a member here corrected a comment I made. He said that the year which had gone since the K-1ii was not a “Pentax record” ... but he would be worried if got into summer without another Pentax camera. Assuming Karen is right, the next camera is a year later even than that. The “K-3ii shelf” will have been bare for something like two years. I do not believe Ricoh planned that. Perhaps they did have something unexpected happen. I have acknowledged that as a possibility - but I still feel empathy for those who say neither the K-1ii nor the KP meets their needs; I believe Ricoh should provide better guidance about the future. If a K-5/3 unexpectedly dies in the coming months, they will not know what to expect in the near future, and I believe Ricoh should put down their inscrutable barriers and proved some kind of guidance.

"We"?

It's not OK to make untruthful claims just because you wish for the product to be here NOW, OR ELSE!. There is no delay unless Ricoh - not us! - had to push back the release date from an earlier promise.
I don't see any indication, including in Karen's posts, that the camera was planned for an earlier release. This being said, estimations are mere estimation thus subjected to errors (usually by being overoptimistic). Ask any software developer about that.

Mistral75 · 11-10-2019, 11:45 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Larrymc

Sorry for the confusion.

The photo you posted from Tanaka san's blog shows the tape rather sloppily reapplied where as the Pentax release photos show carefully applied tape. That tells me that the tape has been removed by someone who was curios about the name and then it was re-applied after looking at the name. The culprit who removed the tape could have been Tanaka san.

As for the other paragraph it was regarding Karen's post that the release date would be much later than most expect. to paraphrase, you said the camera was pretty much complete but probably needed the firmware tweaked to complete the system.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

Re tape and 'variations' from picture to picture, please consider that at least three working samples are touring the various events, possibly more. Each evening they are taken out of their glass case and put in a safe place, each morning they are put back in it. And they travel from one event site to another, some of them overseas.

Concerning the release date, I see nothing that invalidates the current consensus: formal announcement (with complete list of specifications) sometimes before CP+ and availability around April - May, like the K-1. That would mean a 2+ year development time from green light to announcement, which is pretty standard.

Mistral75 · 11-10-2019, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...) Ask any software developer about that.

Some Romanian one, for instance?

reh321 · 11-10-2019, 11:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

In 2015 Ricoh Imaging executives could have supposed, wrongly as subsequently proven but not without reason at the time, that the market for a flagship APS-C camera could be segmented (split): the high-end customers would migrate to the 24x36 camera whilst those potentially ready to go the mirrorless route would be sufficiently interested in size and weight gains to gladly go for the KP, welcoming its IQ advantage over the K-3 line and its smaller size as more than fair trade-offs for the few things that had to be given up to achieve that compactness.

I stated several times that I believe this is true - that Ricoh expected current K-7/5/3 users to be satisfied with either the K-1ii or the KP, but they were caught by surprise by the many users who would accept neither the size of the KP's buffer nor the speed of the K-1ii's burst. I expressed this opinion until I was informed that Ricoh has denied it. Not wanting to use the word "lie" - and recognizing the importance of "face" in Oriental culture - brings us to our current situation.

reh321 · 11-10-2019, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

"We"?

It's not OK to make untruthful claims just because you wish for the product to be here NOW, OR ELSE!. There is no delay unless Ricoh - not us! - had to push back the release date from an earlier promise.
I don't see any indication, including in Karen's posts, that the camera was planned for an earlier release. This being said, estimations are mere estimation thus subjected to errors (usually by being overoptimistic). Ask any software developer about that.

There is nothing untruthful about how long the "K-3 shelf" has been bare. That is the main issue.

**Belnan** · 11-10-2019, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Karen the Star

Name? Here we are

Lol, thanks

Not a Number · 11-10-2019, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Delayed? Did they promise any earlier date?
Not to my knowledge. So what delay are you talking about???

As I recall the only "official" line thus far is that it is slated for 2020 release. No mention of quarter or season that I know of from what's been posted. If there is blog or post from someone attending one of the events with the prototype was present and one of the reps giving a narrower release time frame (i.e. other than just 2020) I wish they would provide a link.

Originally posted by totsmuyco

The photo makes me wonder. Looking at the 2 dials near the top LCD. The camera seems bigger than the K5/K3 series. Maybe its just the angle.

Small hands?

**Belnan** · 11-10-2019, 12:06 PM

So K-FC in summer 2020, then the K1 replacement the K-OK in 2023.

Kunzite · 11-10-2019, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Some Romanian one, for instance?

I could confirm it from personal experience.
But it's a known fact, well documented by Western authors, that estimations are done poorly and not for the lack of trying.

---------- Post added 10-11-19 at 09:23 PM ----------

Originally posted by reh321

There is nothing untruthful about how long the "K-3 shelf" has been bare. That is the main issue.

That's how a red herring works - you're stating something irrelevant to promote an untruthful idea (which obviously is the delay).
Although I don't think it is intentional.

reh321 · 11-10-2019, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

That's how a red herring works - you're stating something irrelevant to promote an untruthful idea (which obviously is the delay).
Although I don't think it is intentional.

The empty shelf is the truth seen by many Pentax users.
The reason for its existence doesn't matter to them
{I am a happy KP user}

zzeitg · 11-10-2019, 01:01 PM - **2 Likes**

"Also, the news said the screen on camera will be unable to pull out"

Bad news or good news? There are guys who never use "live view" mode (and consequently they don't care for pull out screen). Including me.

Do you insist on pull-out screen? Go and buy K-1.

Kunzite · 11-10-2019, 01:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

The empty shelf is the truth seen by many Pentax users.
The reason for its existence doesn't matter to them
{I am a happy KP user}

Yet your claim about delays due to technical issues had nothing to do with that. You never, not even once, attempted to support said claim.
Whatever. I'm giving up.

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11-10-2019, 11:13 AM - 1 Like	#61
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Interesting. Would the “name unpleasant” be more akin to “not what he expected”?

11-10-2019, 11:28 AM - 1 Like	#62
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by Mistral75 Yes I did but what has this to do with the picture in reply #32 not being 'the press photo from Ricoh', as you wrote before? Sorry for the confusion. The photo you posted from Tanaka san's blog shows the tape rather sloppily reapplied where as the Pentax release photos show carefully applied tape. That tells me that the tape has been removed by someone who was curios about the name and then it was re-applied after looking at the name. The culprit who removed the tape could have been Tanaka san. As for the other paragraph it was regarding Karen's post that the release date would be much later than most expect. to paraphrase, you said the camera was pretty much complete but probably needed the firmware tweaked to complete the system. I hope this clears up your confusion.

11-10-2019, 11:36 AM	#63
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Now we have what appears to be re-applied tape. Is this the beginnings of “tape-gate” comments on what he did or did not see? :

11-10-2019, 11:42 AM - 1 Like	#64
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by reh321 but we feel one; during CP+ almost a year ago, a member here corrected a comment I made. He said that the year which had gone since the K-1ii was not a “Pentax record” ... but he would be worried if got into summer without another Pentax camera. Assuming Karen is right, the next camera is a year later even than that. The “K-3ii shelf” will have been bare for something like two years. I do not believe Ricoh planned that. Perhaps they did have something unexpected happen. I have acknowledged that as a possibility - but I still feel empathy for those who say neither the K-1ii nor the KP meets their needs; I believe Ricoh should provide better guidance about the future. If a K-5/3 unexpectedly dies in the coming months, they will not know what to expect in the near future, and I believe Ricoh should put down their inscrutable barriers and proved some kind of guidance. "We"? It's not OK to make untruthful claims just because you wish for the product to be here NOW, OR ELSE!. There is no delay unless Ricoh - not us! - had to push back the release date from an earlier promise. I don't see any indication, including in Karen's posts, that the camera was planned for an earlier release. This being said, estimations are mere estimation thus subjected to errors (usually by being overoptimistic). Ask any software developer about that.

11-10-2019, 11:45 AM - 1 Like	#65
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Larrymc Sorry for the confusion. The photo you posted from Tanaka san's blog shows the tape rather sloppily reapplied where as the Pentax release photos show carefully applied tape. That tells me that the tape has been removed by someone who was curios about the name and then it was re-applied after looking at the name. The culprit who removed the tape could have been Tanaka san. As for the other paragraph it was regarding Karen's post that the release date would be much later than most expect. to paraphrase, you said the camera was pretty much complete but probably needed the firmware tweaked to complete the system. I hope this clears up your confusion. Thank you for your detailed explanation. Re tape and 'variations' from picture to picture, please consider that at least three working samples are touring the various events, possibly more. Each evening they are taken out of their glass case and put in a safe place, each morning they are put back in it. And they travel from one event site to another, some of them overseas. Concerning the release date, I see nothing that invalidates the current consensus: formal announcement (with complete list of specifications) sometimes before CP+ and availability around April - May, like the K-1. That would mean a 2+ year development time from green light to announcement, which is pretty standard.

11-10-2019, 11:47 AM	#66
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Kunzite (...) Ask any software developer about that. Some Romanian one, for instance?

11-10-2019, 11:58 AM - 1 Like	#67
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Mistral75 In 2015 Ricoh Imaging executives could have supposed, wrongly as subsequently proven but not without reason at the time, that the market for a flagship APS-C camera could be segmented (split): the high-end customers would migrate to the 24x36 camera whilst those potentially ready to go the mirrorless route would be sufficiently interested in size and weight gains to gladly go for the KP, welcoming its IQ advantage over the K-3 line and its smaller size as more than fair trade-offs for the few things that had to be given up to achieve that compactness. I stated several times that I believe this is true - that Ricoh expected current K-7/5/3 users to be satisfied with either the K-1ii or the KP, but they were caught by surprise by the many users who would accept neither the size of the KP's buffer nor the speed of the K-1ii's burst. I expressed this opinion until I was informed that Ricoh has denied it. Not wanting to use the word "lie" - and recognizing the importance of "face" in Oriental culture - brings us to our current situation.

11-10-2019, 12:01 PM	#68
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Kunzite "We"? It's not OK to make untruthful claims just because you wish for the product to be here NOW, OR ELSE!. There is no delay unless Ricoh - not us! - had to push back the release date from an earlier promise. I don't see any indication, including in Karen's posts, that the camera was planned for an earlier release. This being said, estimations are mere estimation thus subjected to errors (usually by being overoptimistic). Ask any software developer about that. There is nothing untruthful about how long the "K-3 shelf" has been bare. That is the main issue.

11-10-2019, 12:01 PM	#69
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by Karen the Star Name? Here we are Lol, thanks

11-10-2019, 12:04 PM	#70
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by Kunzite Delayed? Did they promise any earlier date? Not to my knowledge. So what delay are you talking about??? As I recall the only "official" line thus far is that it is slated for 2020 release. No mention of quarter or season that I know of from what's been posted. If there is blog or post from someone attending one of the events with the prototype was present and one of the reps giving a narrower release time frame (i.e. other than just 2020) I wish they would provide a link. Originally posted by totsmuyco The photo makes me wonder. Looking at the 2 dials near the top LCD. The camera seems bigger than the K5/K3 series. Maybe its just the angle. Small hands?

11-10-2019, 12:06 PM	#71
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	So K-FC in summer 2020, then the K1 replacement the K-OK in 2023.

11-10-2019, 12:20 PM	#72
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Mistral75 Some Romanian one, for instance? I could confirm it from personal experience. But it's a known fact, well documented by Western authors, that estimations are done poorly and not for the lack of trying. ---------- Post added 10-11-19 at 09:23 PM ---------- Originally posted by reh321 There is nothing untruthful about how long the "K-3 shelf" has been bare. That is the main issue. That's how a red herring works - you're stating something irrelevant to promote an untruthful idea (which obviously is the delay). Although I don't think it is intentional.

11-10-2019, 12:48 PM	#73
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Kunzite That's how a red herring works - you're stating something irrelevant to promote an untruthful idea (which obviously is the delay). Although I don't think it is intentional. The empty shelf is the truth seen by many Pentax users. The reason for its existence doesn't matter to them {I am a happy KP user}

11-10-2019, 01:01 PM - 2 Likes	#74
zzeitg Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: South Bohemia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,017	"Also, the news said the screen on camera will be unable to pull out" Bad news or good news? There are guys who never use "live view" mode (and consequently they don't care for pull out screen). Including me. Do you insist on pull-out screen? Go and buy K-1.

11-10-2019, 01:02 PM - 1 Like	#75
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by reh321 The empty shelf is the truth seen by many Pentax users. The reason for its existence doesn't matter to them {I am a happy KP user} Yet your claim about delays due to technical issues had nothing to do with that. You never, not even once, attempted to support said claim. Whatever. I'm giving up.