[panonski]

No offense to everyone, I know we like the flippy screen but looking at the picture, I do think it's a fixed screen.

yes it is probably,


but wit such a delay - and with previous Ricoh-Pentax "mouth-sealed" tactic


in the case of the K-3

I cana easily came to conclusion

- that they're rethinkinkg - about design.


---

Explanation


Well, I cannot recall ( Forgive me if I have mistakes ) - that Ricoh leaked out - the pre-model look any time before.

I 'm thinking ,

they do that with obvious reason - which is hard delay after K3 II - so they actually encourage future - or existing customers - to wait.

--
The second reason, is maybe - that design - whic was introduce - is not finished at all,

and maybe the
final product - would have - minor, or even much more visible changes.


----

So, my thinking is - they studied - what people said - when they introduced the pre-final product pics, and decide to change that.


---------------------------------------

I really think they would change it to be flipped, and maybe even touch.


let's wait to the last day of Summer 2020

[Mistral75]

On the Z front, seems like Pentax should be able to to compete with Fuji, at least on price for the body. (...)

Could they? I would say that a prism and mirror dimensioned for a 33x44 sensor + a dedicated autofocus module and their assembly with very tight tolerances might cost (much) more than a plug-in electronic viewfinder (the cost of which doesn't depend on the sensor size, obviously).

They don't need to design a new prism and mirror for that size sensor, the 645Z one should work just fine. And I would think the enhancements to AF only need to be medium...no one is using an MF camera for action sports or fast moving wildlife.

(...)

My comment was about purchase and manufacturing costs, not R&D costs.

[Mistral75]

Could they? I would say that a prism and mirror dimensioned for a 33x44 sensor + a dedicated autofocus module and their assembly with very tight tolerances might cost (much) more than a plug-in electronic viewfinder (the cost of which doesn't depend on the sensor size, obviously).

And yet, low end Canon DSLRs cost less than most low end mirrorless.
How can ?

• Pentamirror, not pentaprism
• 14.8x22.2 sensor, not 33x44 (again, the cost of pentaprism + mirror increases with the sensor size, that of an electronic viewfinder does not)
• Lower margins

It still could be applicable ed to mirrorless too.
Ergo this more of a marketing decision than a technical one (from Canikon of course).

The level of margin is indeed decided upon by the manufacturer. The purchase and manufacturing/assembly costs are not.

I would bet that the purchase and manufacturing/assembly costs of a pentamirror and mirror dimensioned for a 14.8x22.2 sensor + a dedicated entry-level autofocus module are lower than or close to the purchase cost of an entry-level electronic viewfinder whereas the purchase and manufacturing/assembly costs of a pentaprism and mirror dimensioned for a 33x44 sensor + a dedicated autofocus module is higher than the purchase cost of a mid-to-high level electronic viewfinder.

[bdery]

Which is why we should value our contributors who actually read Japanese. Like the primary customers of Pentax, they can understand the nuances of the written and spoken language.

I concur. Thanks for putting it so elegantly.

Which is one reason I try to keep my posts as short as possible {but no shorter}

Well played.

I had the sad task yesterday of imposing a writ of "boriscleto"

In a rare occurrence on this forum, I am at a loss to know what this means. I'm guessing it relates to the ignore function?

[MMVIII]

yes it is probably,


but wit such a delay - and with previous Ricoh-Pentax "mouth-sealed" tactic


in the case of the K-3

I cana easily came to conclusion

- that they're rethinkinkg - about design.


---

Explanation


Well, I cannot recall ( Forgive me if I have mistakes ) - that Ricoh leaked out - the pre-model look any time before.

I 'm thinking ,

they do that with obvious reason - which is hard delay after K3 II - so they actually encourage future - or existing customers - to wait.

--
The second reason, is maybe - that design - whic was introduce - is not finished at all,

and maybe the
final product - would have - minor, or even much more visible changes.


----

So, my thinking is - they studied - what people said - when they introduced the pre-final product pics, and decide to change that.


---------------------------------------

I really think they would change it to be flipped, and maybe even touch.


let's wait to the last day of Summer 2020

Well, the logic, that they would show a model of this camera exactly because it would not be close to the final product is... well, this train of thought at least amuses me

[Doundounba]

I'm hoping that they took a massive leap in AF performance.

Hey, if it didn't even have AF - if it was a manual focus only camera - I'm sure some people on here would claim that adding that feature would have made the body too expensive, that AF is unreliable anyway and they only ever used that feature once two years ago, so you shouldn't need it either. Or that you should go purchase one of the other Pentax models that actually has AF. How dare you want a top-level camera with such a feature! (cough!)flippyscreen(cough!)

[monochrome]

Hey, if it didn't even have AF - if it was a manual focus only camera - I'm sure some people on here would claim that adding that feature would have made the body too expensive, that AF is unreliable anyway and they only ever used that feature once two years ago, so you shouldn't need it either. Or that you should go purchase one of the other Pentax models that actually has AF. How dare you want a top-level camera with such a feature! (cough!)flippyscreen(cough!)

Will you buy the camera if the screen is fixed?

[panonski]

Well, the logic, that they would show a model of this camera exactly because it would not be close to the final product is... well, this train of thought at least amuses me

why ?





It said the final product can be different...

---------- Post added 11-12-19 at 07:29 AM ----------

Will you buy the camera if the screen is fixed?

definitely not.


Flip screen is the most useful option for capturing from frog perspective...


I maybe rarely use that, but when I need it, it' s unbeatable for situation...


--
And yes, if have no flash also...

[reh321]

Flip screen is the most useful option for capturing from frog perspective...
I maybe rarely use that, but when I need it, it' s unbeatable for situation...
And yes, if have no flash also...

I don't think of frogs very often.

I would have purchased KP with/without flippy LCD - I have used only once since getting KP.
I do plan to use again soon, because taking Street Photos seems to work better if I am looking at camera.
I won't purchase this camera with/without LCD because KP meets my need.

[MMVIII]

why ?





It said the final product can be different...[COLOR="Silver"]

That's what they said. interpreting the fact, that the model now does not have a flipping screen to a claim that this would indicate that the final version would have one is still, let's say, a bit of a stretch.

Chances are high the screen will be fixed. There are some low chances this might not be the case. That's all

[reh321]

Hey, if it didn't even have AF - if it was a manual focus only camera - I'm sure some people on here would claim that adding that feature would have made the body too expensive, that AF is unreliable anyway and they only ever used that feature once two years ago, so you shouldn't need it either.

Obviously 'weight' only is a silly argument - that argument might apply to the KP {which does have both AF and a flippy screen} but not to this camera.

As a side-note: I left Pentax in 1995 because I liked the Canon AF solution much better than the Nikon/Pentax solution, even though it meant a bigger camera {the Canon EOS Elan followed the T90 architecture}. I don't notice any 'weight penalty' of flippy LCD in my KP.

[monochrome]

definitely not.

So will you buy a K-1 or KP or K-70 instead or must you absolutely own the flagship for all your shooting needs and have a moveable screen for the “frog shots”?*


* How did you shoot frogs before moveable screens?

P.S. This is a bogus objection meme for K-new. Back on the list.

[reh321]

So will you buy a K-1 or KP or K-70 instead or must you absolutely own the flagship for all your shooting needs and have a moveable screen for the “frog shots”?*

* How did you shoot frogs before moveable screens?

P.S. This is a bogus objection meme for K-new.

I find that modern LCDs have such an angle of seeing, I could probably take 'frog shots' today without getting on the ground {I reach age 72 next month, so if I do ever get on the ground, I need help getting up again}. However, putting that aside, he could get a K-1ii and have both a 'flagship' camera and a moveable screen .... but it costs a tad more than my KP which plenty is usable in almost all cases. The 'complaints' I have heard about the KP involve bursts, which have not been a problem for me, even though I started shooting moving trains {of course, I had no burst at all for over twenty years, so I had to 'cope'.

[panonski]

So will you buy a K-1 or KP or K-70 instead or must you absolutely own the flagship for all your shooting needs and have a moveable screen for the “frog shots”?*

I would not buy ANY camera without tilt ( flip ) screen, or FLASH unit - in 2019.

-
I have Oly Pen EP-5 - which does have both.

--
I have Pentax Mx-1 - which does have both.

--
I have Pentax KP - which does have both.

---
and I also have Ricoh Gx200 - with flash - no tilt screen.

and K-3 - with flash -no tilt screen


.-------------------

I'm pretty well covered - and I choose what to buy.

--
That's me.

What suits you, is something you know
--
I was answering about my needs. I can live without Tilt or Flip screen - I personally much more prefer TILT over FLIP - but both is much better option from fixed

[troenaas]

Some people like red, others prefer green.

Some people would need an articulating screen, others don't.

Can't we just agree that we are different and have differing needs and preferences?