New information about new flagship's selling date

house · 11-12-2019, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

This is not a zero-sum game. If you don't like to use a moveable screen on a camera that has one, you just leave it in place. Just like if you want to shoot manual focus, the fact that the camera has an auto-focus module isn't an impediment. But if you want to use a moveable screen on a camera that has none, well, you can't.

As mentioned both Canon and Leica has recently revealed super expensive top notch cameras with fixed screens. Why would they do that if there's no "cost" to adding a moveable screen? It's not a price issue with the cameras mentioned they can basically have any feature the manufacturers want to include.

It would be really interesting to hear some posters think around the above cameras, their users etc.

**cartesio** · 11-12-2019, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by reh321

You really need to use the quote feature. I tried, but I cannot find a reference to "FC".

First page, picture posted by Karen the Star.

normhead · 11-12-2019, 01:48 PM - **2 Likes**

I have both a fixed screen K-3 and a flip up screen K-1. I will never willingly buy another camera without a flip up screen.

I'm 80 percent certain the new APS_c has a flip up back screen, so, I'm waiting. The back of the demo model looks nothing like any fixed back screen I've seen.

There's a bevel all the way around the screen and a protruding knob to pull it out. Two pieces of evidence the screen will not be fixed. But I'd be intersted if any one can show me a fixed screen from any brand with similar characteristics, I'll be a happy to change my opinion. You certainly won't be finding one on a Pentax.

reh321 · 11-12-2019, 01:50 PM

This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera.
It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD.

**SteveinSLC** · 11-12-2019, 02:08 PM

The Leica is more of an exception. They have been so much focused on preserving design and street shooting that it doesn't surprise me there.
But the new Canon EOS R cameras have a tilt screen, as do the Nikon z6 and z7. The Canon 1DX Mk3 is the big new one that doesn't. But are we really thinking that the K-new is a similar type of camera to that?

normhead · 11-12-2019, 02:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera.
It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD.

Its kind of a deal breaker.

But if you want to talk about timing, it would seem June/July 2020 is a consensus, based on nothing.

If it's not out for tax return time I won't be buying it until 2021 in any case. Around here that would be April. I could care less, 2020, 2021. What's the rush? The later I wait to buy the longer it will take to get old.

cpobuttons · 11-12-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Its kind of a deal breaker.

looks like it's not in your future then.

MikeyBugs95 · 11-12-2019, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by reh321

This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera.
It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD.

I think it's interesting how some people are so very certain that this camera will have a flip/articulating screen despite almost all evidence provided as of yet to the contrary. I can relate that to something else but then it'll get political and that's a big no-no. Even so, it's pointless even trying to discuss it because we don't know anything, literally nothing, about this camera except for what it looks like as of the last showing and that it will be the APS-C flagship. That's it. Everything else is unknown.

So everyone who is whining and crying about it not having a flippy screen (yes, you people are whining and crying about it [not meant at you reh]) are doing so needlessly. They're yelling into a void because - face it - you won't change the overall outcome, inclusion or exclusion, of the feature. If they're completely trashing the mere thought of buying the new camera for the sole reason that it might not have their prefered mechanism for screen movement, oh well. I'm of the opinion that that is just a feature that's easily picked out as a scape goat for them to blame their not wanting the camera on. I personally don't care one bit what the screen does. I've used the K-70 and I moved to the K-3II. Sure, the lack of a flippy screen has been inconvenient at times but in no way does it make the K-70 more of a "premier" camera over the K-3II. And it only forces me to try to be a bit more creative.

Anyway, if they want to get the new camera and are so sure that it is still a flip screen, I'd oblige them to try to "flip" the screen using the "indentation" and see what happens. But they can't come running to me or Ricoh when their screen breaks and they're left with a no-screen camera instead.

normhead · 11-12-2019, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by cpobuttons

looks like it's not in your future then.

Not to me it doesn't. And the only real evidence is on my side.
The evidence against is some guy who saw a pre-production model that he was told was going to change, says the pre-production model doesn't have one. But he was warned, change was going to come. We just don't know what change.

reh321 · 11-12-2019, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Not to me it doesn't. And the only real evidence is on my side.
The evidence against is some guy who saw a pre-production model that he was told was going to change, says the pre-production model doesn't have one. But he was warned, change was going to come. We just don't know what change.

Meanwhile, you can take photos with your K-3 and K-1, and I can take photos with my KP.

**RobA_Oz** · 11-12-2019, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by reh321

This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera.
It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD.

Both topics are speculative, to some degree. The (unhelpful) only things we can say for certain are:

The new camera will arrive when Ricoh are good and ready; and
It’s possible that the LCD screen may change from the prototype exhibited.

On the off-topic subject of shooting frogs (who does that?) should I ever have had the urge to do so, prior to the arrival of my K-3 and the FLUcard (also the subject of furious debate, back then) I would have used my Refconverter, which still required me to get down on my knees (undignified at least, painful at worst) or lie down (not always possible or desirable). Now, I can set my camera up on a mini-tripod or similar, position and focus etc while maintaining a comfortable position, and shoot with a tap on my phone screen or press of my remote button.

BTW, you’re only three months ahead of me, reh321.

Doundounba · 11-12-2019, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I'm 80 percent certain the new APS_c has a flip up back screen, so, I'm waiting. The back of the demo model looks nothing like any fixed back screen I've seen.

I admire your optimism! The most definitive thing I've seen on that was this recent post by Mistral75, which doesn't seem quite as optimistic as you on the topic. It does, however, leave the door slightly ajar ("most of the remaining ongoing developments concerned the firmware"), so it could happen... Let's hope so. As for timing, if it ships next summer only, I might have to decide between a used K-3ii and, err, some lateral movement. My K-3 is starting to get a little flaky - I doubt it will make it to next summer. But that's for a different thread.

deus ursus · 11-12-2019, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by MikeyBugs95

I fear they may have some trouble marketing that K-1 replacement with that name, though.

As long as they don't call it Circle-K.

Doundounba · 11-12-2019, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by deus ursus

As long as they don't call it Circle-K.

Or Special-K.

BryantCP · 11-12-2019, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I guess you never heard of crazy glue?

My main objection to an articulated or tilting screen is that it adds bulk to the camera body. On a small camera like the KP, which I acquired last December, its not that much of an issue & it is occasionally useful. But I don't miss having one when I am using my K-3 or K-5. By the way if the price of the KP falls below $700 (US) this year as it did for Thanksgiving & Christmas last year its well worth that price.

11-12-2019, 01:48 PM - 2 Likes	#258
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I have both a fixed screen K-3 and a flip up screen K-1. I will never willingly buy another camera without a flip up screen. I'm 80 percent certain the new APS_c has a flip up back screen, so, I'm waiting. The back of the demo model looks nothing like any fixed back screen I've seen. There's a bevel all the way around the screen and a protruding knob to pull it out. Two pieces of evidence the screen will not be fixed. But I'd be intersted if any one can show me a fixed screen from any brand with similar characteristics, I'll be a happy to change my opinion. You certainly won't be finding one on a Pentax. Last edited by normhead; 11-12-2019 at 02:19 PM.

11-12-2019, 02:20 PM - 1 Like	#261
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by reh321 This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera. It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD. Its kind of a deal breaker. But if you want to talk about timing, it would seem June/July 2020 is a consensus, based on nothing. If it's not out for tax return time I won't be buying it until 2021 in any case. Around here that would be April. I could care less, 2020, 2021. What's the rush? The later I wait to buy the longer it will take to get old. Last edited by normhead; 11-12-2019 at 02:28 PM.

11-12-2019, 03:25 PM	#266
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by reh321 This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera. It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD. Both topics are speculative, to some degree. The (unhelpful) only things we can say for certain are: The new camera will arrive when Ricoh are good and ready; and It’s possible that the LCD screen may change from the prototype exhibited. On the off-topic subject of shooting frogs (who does that?) should I ever have had the urge to do so, prior to the arrival of my K-3 and the FLUcard (also the subject of furious debate, back then) I would have used my Refconverter, which still required me to get down on my knees (undignified at least, painful at worst) or lie down (not always possible or desirable). Now, I can set my camera up on a mini-tripod or similar, position and focus etc while maintaining a comfortable position, and shoot with a tap on my phone screen or press of my remote button. BTW, you’re only three months ahead of me, reh321.

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11-12-2019, 01:03 PM	#256
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Doundounba This is not a zero-sum game. If you don't like to use a moveable screen on a camera that has one, you just leave it in place. Just like if you want to shoot manual focus, the fact that the camera has an auto-focus module isn't an impediment. But if you want to use a moveable screen on a camera that has none, well, you can't. As mentioned both Canon and Leica has recently revealed super expensive top notch cameras with fixed screens. Why would they do that if there's no "cost" to adding a moveable screen? It's not a price issue with the cameras mentioned they can basically have any feature the manufacturers want to include. It would be really interesting to hear some posters think around the above cameras, their users etc.

11-12-2019, 01:22 PM	#257
cartesio Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 900	Originally posted by reh321 You really need to use the quote feature. I tried, but I cannot find a reference to "FC". First page, picture posted by Karen the Star.

11-12-2019, 01:50 PM	#259
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera. It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD.

11-12-2019, 02:08 PM	#260
SteveinSLC Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 568	The Leica is more of an exception. They have been so much focused on preserving design and street shooting that it doesn't surprise me there. But the new Canon EOS R cameras have a tilt screen, as do the Nikon z6 and z7. The Canon 1DX Mk3 is the big new one that doesn't. But are we really thinking that the K-new is a similar type of camera to that?

11-12-2019, 02:23 PM	#262
cpobuttons Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Norwich, Ct Posts: 139	Originally posted by normhead Its kind of a deal breaker. looks like it's not in your future then.

11-12-2019, 02:30 PM	#263
MikeyBugs95 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,206	Originally posted by reh321 This thread is theoretically about timing of the new camera. It is interesting how every Thread eventually turns to the LCD. I think it's interesting how some people are so very certain that this camera will have a flip/articulating screen despite almost all evidence provided as of yet to the contrary. I can relate that to something else but then it'll get political and that's a big no-no. Even so, it's pointless even trying to discuss it because we don't know anything, literally nothing, about this camera except for what it looks like as of the last showing and that it will be the APS-C flagship. That's it. Everything else is unknown. So everyone who is whining and crying about it not having a flippy screen (yes, you people are whining and crying about it [not meant at you reh]) are doing so needlessly. They're yelling into a void because - face it - you won't change the overall outcome, inclusion or exclusion, of the feature. If they're completely trashing the mere thought of buying the new camera for the sole reason that it might not have their prefered mechanism for screen movement, oh well. I'm of the opinion that that is just a feature that's easily picked out as a scape goat for them to blame their not wanting the camera on. I personally don't care one bit what the screen does. I've used the K-70 and I moved to the K-3II. Sure, the lack of a flippy screen has been inconvenient at times but in no way does it make the K-70 more of a "premier" camera over the K-3II. And it only forces me to try to be a bit more creative. Anyway, if they want to get the new camera and are so sure that it is still a flip screen, I'd oblige them to try to "flip" the screen using the "indentation" and see what happens. But they can't come running to me or Ricoh when their screen breaks and they're left with a no-screen camera instead.

11-12-2019, 02:30 PM	#264
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by cpobuttons looks like it's not in your future then. Not to me it doesn't. And the only real evidence is on my side. The evidence against is some guy who saw a pre-production model that he was told was going to change, says the pre-production model doesn't have one. But he was warned, change was going to come. We just don't know what change.

11-12-2019, 02:33 PM	#265
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by normhead Not to me it doesn't. And the only real evidence is on my side. The evidence against is some guy who saw a pre-production model that he was told was going to change, says the pre-production model doesn't have one. But he was warned, change was going to come. We just don't know what change. Meanwhile, you can take photos with your K-3 and K-1, and I can take photos with my KP.

11-12-2019, 03:52 PM	#267
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by normhead I'm 80 percent certain the new APS_c has a flip up back screen, so, I'm waiting. The back of the demo model looks nothing like any fixed back screen I've seen. I admire your optimism! The most definitive thing I've seen on that was this recent post by Mistral75, which doesn't seem quite as optimistic as you on the topic. It does, however, leave the door slightly ajar ("most of the remaining ongoing developments concerned the firmware"), so it could happen... Let's hope so. As for timing, if it ships next summer only, I might have to decide between a used K-3ii and, err, some lateral movement. My K-3 is starting to get a little flaky - I doubt it will make it to next summer. But that's for a different thread.

11-12-2019, 03:53 PM	#268
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by MikeyBugs95 I fear they may have some trouble marketing that K-1 replacement with that name, though. As long as they don't call it Circle-K.

11-12-2019, 03:55 PM	#269
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by deus ursus As long as they don't call it Circle-K. Or Special-K.

11-12-2019, 06:32 PM	#270
BryantCP Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN USA Posts: 134	Originally posted by normhead I guess you never heard of crazy glue? My main objection to an articulated or tilting screen is that it adds bulk to the camera body. On a small camera like the KP, which I acquired last December, its not that much of an issue & it is occasionally useful. But I don't miss having one when I am using my K-3 or K-5. By the way if the price of the KP falls below $700 (US) this year as it did for Thanksgiving & Christmas last year its well worth that price.