[Mistral75]

A very interesting interview with Philippe Farreng, General Sales Manager for Europe, Ricoh Imaging:

Pentax fête ses 100 ans : "notre communauté est extrêmement attachée à notre marque"

Pentax celebrates their 100th anniversary: 'our community is extremely committed to our brand' (Google translation)

Some excerpts translated from French by yours truly:

• Ricoh also offer 360 cameras - which are progressing and are one of the company's major focuses. So we are doing more and more trade shows. (....) We are attending more and more B2B shows; the development of 360 cameras is really one of the company's priorities: we therefore have a request from Japan to be present at this type of event.
  xxx
• [In France] At the time of film photography - which was extremely stable - there were 2.5 million units sold per year. There were 300,000 cameras with interchangeable lenses and 2.2 million compact or bridge cameras. Today, if we take the French market for cameras with interchangeable lenses, we obtain more or less the same figures if we add those of DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. On the other hand, the entire compact market has completely disappeared. [the last part being slightly exaggerated ]
  xxx
• On the DSLR side, the market is decreasing more in volume than in value - since it is mainly the entry-level models that are disappearing. Full frame and premium models are more resilient compared to the market decline. Mirrorless cameras are now the only sector currently growing, but only its high-end part. (...) What is suffering today in the mirrorless market is mainly the cameras with 4/3" and APS-C sensors. Under Sony's leadership, the full-frame mirrorless market is doing well.
  xxx
• Today, the parent company in Japan is asking itself many questions about mirrorless cameras in order to determine whether Pentax shall enter this market, and if so in what form.
  xxx
• The full frame mirrorless market is already starting to become saturated in a very short time. (...) In order to hope to capture market share, we must be able to immediately announce a wide range of lenses. That's where the complexity lies today. Indeed, developing a mirrorless camera is easier than designing a SLR camera. However, the difficulty lies in developing a wide range of lenses in a very short period of time.
  xxx
• So there are several possibilities for us: to focus only on the niche market that the DSLRs will be tomorrow, to move towards mirrorless - but in this case, do we have the ability to enter this market with a sufficient optical range? - or to use an existing lens mount in partnership. But these are only options at the moment. Today, no final decision has been made on this topic as I speak.
  xxx
• In terms of development - new sensor, new design, electronic circuits - a DSLR takes about 14 to 18 months to be brought to market. With a mirrorless camera, this can be done in a much shorter time: in 8 to 10 months it is possible to design a mirrorless camera. The main difficulty is the lenses because different production lines are needed, so there are a number of issues that need to be managed.
  xxx
• Initially, we designed [the KP] as a replacement for the K-3 Mark II, but we realised that we were selling it a lot more to non-Pentax customers.
  xxx
• The Pentax fan community is very special because of its attachment to the brand. In many cases, the father owned a Pentax, which he later passed on to his children, who themselves bought a Pentax camera. We therefore have a community that is extremely loyal to Pentax, and that has always chosen our products because of certain features that they did not find in competing cameras at equivalent prices.
  xxx
• Our renewal rate is lower than those of Canon or Nikon. On the Pentax online forums, we do a big survey every second year asking which cameras people use and we find that a very large number of users are still using cameras that we launched 10 or 12 years ago. It's something you won't see anywhere else. (...) We may therefore offer more attractive trade-in offers to encourage users to switch to more modern equipment.
  xxx
• We don't have any particular difficulties with our community because they defend the brand enormously - sometimes they are even a little radicalised! The biggest challenge is to expand this base and get additional customers. We have recovered a number of customers with the launch of our full-frame camera and with the promotional operations around the K70 which is our key to entering the Pentax universe.
  xxx
• Today, Pentax is one of our 5 brands and only covers cameras and lenses.
  xxx
• One of the most important products of our group is the Ricoh GR, the ideal device for street photography. We launched the Ricoh GR III 6 months ago and we are enjoying an extraordinary success: compared to the sales we made with the GR II we have had an absolutely incredible jump, especially in Europe where we have multiplied our sales by 7 or 8. It's therefore one of the pillars of the group today and one of the areas Ricoh are investing heavily in. In the future, many developments in the GR range are to be expected.
  xxx
• The other development pillar concerns 360° cameras. We had envisaged a greater opening to the general public than the actual one and, at the moment, 3/4 of our volumes are made of B2B sales. It is a product that has found its place and we are very much the leader in B2B. One of the most obvious markets is that of real estate agencies, which are making more and more virtual tours of apartments or houses. But we have developed other activities, such as second-hand cars for example, or construction, surveillance or in the military field, where there is enormous potential for development with 360-degree video. The biggest challenge for us is to open this technology to the general public. We will develop the Theta range. The products that will arrive will be much more oriented towards the general public, especially in terms of application development.
  xxx
• We are redeveloping our binoculars and optics segment: there is a real demand and it is a particularly stable market, unlike digital photography.
  xxx
• We need to be rational, Ricoh's development cannot be achieved through Pentax DSLRs only. Today, the DSLR market is down by 15% every year: it does not allow a whole structure to live from it. (...) Ricoh Imaging's other segments are currently growing: the only one down is the DSLR segment because it follows the current market trend. The advantage is that the profits generated by the other segments can be reinvested in Pentax. (...) Next year, we will launch a flagship APS-C camera. (...) It's a camera that will have many new features. This kind of investment is possible thanks to the profits generated by the other segments.
  xxx
• DSLR is an integral part of Pentax's corporate culture. Even though they have been integrated into Ricoh, a large number of engineers on the Imaging side come from Pentax. There is therefore a real culture around DSLRs with new developments planned, both on the side of cameras and lenses.
  xxx
• On the mirrorless side, it is likely that the parent company in Japan is taking the issue very seriously due to the very clear market evolution.
  xxx
• Tomorrow, will we have to propose a camera dedicated to video, will it have to be a mirrorless camera? Several options are emerging but we have not made a decision yet.

[TwoUptons]

Wow. That's the most information we've seen in a long time, even if it is mostly hints and vague reinforcement of things we may have supposed. Thanks.

-Eric

[Mistral75]

The five pillars of Ricoh Imaging's wisdom:

1. Pentax camera and lenses
2. Ricoh GR
3. 360° Theta cameras
4. Binoculars and optics
5. Waterproof cameras

[biz-engineer]

[In France] At the time of film photography - which was extremely stable - there were 2.5 million units sold per year. There were 300,000 cameras with interchangeable lenses and 2.2 million compact or bridge cameras. Today, if we take the French market for cameras with interchangeable lenses, we obtain more or less the same figures if we add those of DSLRs and mirrorless cameras.

Assuming volumes of sales go down to film era level, it would be much more difficult to make money out of it with digital. Simply because the amount of NRE cost of R&D for a new digital camera model of today is far greater than the NRE cost for a new film camera, the unit cost is also higher for a digital camera vs unit cost of a film camera of the same format. Today, customers expect a lot of electronic and software feature (e.g 4K video, AF tracking, fast burst rate etc), the kind of complexity that didn't exist for film. If the digital camera market goes back to film era kind of sales volumes, only two or three camera brands can survive. Camera companies are going to be squeezed between falling volomes and increasing specs of digital cameras, like a sissors' effect, simply become the new digital camera model must be even better than the previous model or else no one will buy it. So only companies having the critical size will be able to keep making cameras and lenses. Obviously, Canon liklyhood of survival is one of the highest, given that they downsize quick enough, same for Sony and Nikon. All the other cameras brands will die.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 11-23-2019 at 09:38 AM.

[zapp]

Yep, the options are on the table - for quite some time. It would just be interesting to get an idea what the plans are, at least in short term.

[aitrus3]

Encouraging read. Thanks for posting!

[uday029]

That is a good outlook for the company. I think Theta is the reason why 360 became so popular. As of now Theta is the best 360 camera out there for an average consumer. I hope they build big on Theta platform.

[RobA_Oz]

In terms of development - new sensor, new design, electronic circuits - a DSLR takes about 14 to 18 months to be brought to market. With a mirrorless camera, this can be done in a much shorter time: in 8 to 10 months it is possible to design a mirrorless camera. The main difficulty is the lenses because different production lines are needed, so there are a number of issues that need to be managed.

A very interesting interview, indeed, but I don’t understand why a DSLR takes nearly twice as long to come to market. Obviously, once you’ve determined the mount, the main difference is going to be in the design, testing and manufacture of the viewfinder and associated components. With a mirrorless ILC, I should have thought that integrating the latest EVF circuitry wouldn’t be any simpler than dealing with a well-known OVF system – certainly not six to eight months worth of lesser effort. Even assuming an extensive mirror mechanism test, it surely wouldn’t be longer than the testing regime for the mechanical shutter (which both systems have), and would be conducted in parallel.

Nonetheless, the comment must be taken at face value, so I wonder where the difference lies.

[Mistral75]

^ It might have to do, in part, with the design of (i) the mirror and secondary mirror and (ii) the dedicated autofocus module, in particular their integration inside the camera.

[PePe]

Hmm.... not a word about MF...

[Mistral75]

Hmm.... not a word about MF...

I didn't translate the whole article, you should follow the links provided (French + English).

Les appareils les plus haut de gamme que nous proposons sont les boîtiers moyen format, qui sont réservés aux photographes professionnels ou aux amateurs très avertis vu que le boîtier seul coûte entre 5 000 et 6 000 € et que le prix des optiques est en adéquation avec ces tarifs. Cela fait très longtemps que nous sommes présents sur ce marché et nous y resterons encore pendant de nombreuses années. Beaucoup de photographes possèdent des boîtiers et disposent d’un parc optique conséquent : ils sont donc en attente d’évolutions technologiques sur ce type de produits.

[RobA_Oz]

^ It might have to do, in part, with the design of (i) the mirror and secondary mirror and (ii) the dedicated autofocus module, in particular their integration inside the camera.

Yes, I had considered those elements, but do they change much from one model to the next? The autofocus module would likely be the one to change the most, especially with Pentax bodies, but would that be any more time-consuming than doing the integration for an EVF? I have no idea, personally, so I’m curious to know.

[Mistral75]

I'd say an EVF is mainly plug-and-play but I might be wrong.

The main mirror is definitely no: different bodies, different vibration modes, different dampening solutions.

[Serkevan]

Not to mention, a DSLR uses an off-sensor metering system, so that one also adds to the complexity.
Basically, a DSLR has to incorporate the full design of a MILC (after all, the main difference between Live View and a MILC is the screen used) plus a bunch of "other stuff".

Thanks a lot for the info, @Mistral75! As expected, growing the lens lineup takes a huge effort and it would make it very difficult for Ricoh to enter the FF MILC market in non-disastrous fashion.
Another interesting thing is that, were it not for the fans asking "Okay, but where is the K-3iii?", the KP would have been "it". So... Ricoh listens! Yay!

[biz-engineer]

^ It might have to do, in part, with the design of (i) the mirror and secondary mirror and (ii) the dedicated autofocus module, in particular their integration inside the camera.

I knew that for a long time, but everytime I suggested this on this side, it recieved a lot of denial. Now it's just confirmed by Ricoh what I wrote here many times, and I like it. Mirrorless camera is a lot more simple to make than a DSLR, it's easy to understand how Sony A7 series can be made cheap in China by Foxconn (or equivalent) without any calibration (like a smartphone), which would be impossible for a DSLR.