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11-24-2019, 06:42 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
...
Wide-angle lenses are simpler to design for short flange distances, and smaller, but there are good, if bigger, equivalents for longer flange distances.
I've heard this before, but is it still true? Isn't the incident angle of the light rays at the borders of short flanged wa-lenses a problem on a digital sensor, even with microlenses on the sensels?

edit: I know that modern digital cameras tend to apply a normalisation, so to say vignetting correction already with the raw data (bad bad manufacturers...), but would a 645 mount be an advantage to the fancy new MF ML-mounts in this regard,? Anyone aware of tests of corner performance in a comparative way?


Last edited by MMVIII; 11-24-2019 at 06:49 AM.
11-24-2019, 06:46 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The K-01 also failed because it was big.
At that moment at least, size/weight was a major argument for mirrorless.

Now the design etc have their roles, clearly.

If, IMO, at that time, they did come with such big ML but well engineered towards Video, it may very well have sold correctly.
I don't think the K-01 failed because it was big, it failed because it was just a bit ahead of its time and it neither pleased the traditionalist with its unique design, nor the futurist because it was still k-mount
11-24-2019, 06:55 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
I don't think the K-01 failed because it was big, it failed because it was just a bit ahead of its time and it neither pleased the traditionalist with its unique design, nor the futurist because it was still k-mount
I don't think the K-01 was ever meant to be a serious instrument that should have started a new series; the fancy design, and serious usability disadvantages, like lack of viewfinder etc. do make it fall more in the category of design study and thus "success" and "failure" might have been measured with different attributes.
11-24-2019, 08:47 AM - 1 Like   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
I don't think the K-01 was ever meant to be a serious instrument that should have started a new series; the fancy design, and serious usability disadvantages, like lack of viewfinder etc. do make it fall more in the category of design study and thus "success" and "failure" might have been measured with different attributes.
On the contrary, the K-01 was a success in that the planned production of 125,000 units was met and sold, according to member Jon Carlson, then Sales Manager of Ricoh imaging, U.S., and it spurred evelopment of a new, smaller, faster IBIS system and LiveView which were employed in the K-30/K50. In many ways the K-30 was a K-01 with a prism and mirror, rather than the K-01 being a K-30 minus the DSLR elements.

It is truly unfortunate someone decided to spend significant money on the weird Mark Newsom design rather than on further technology development. We moght have made a start on an EVF wtih that money (but I suspect it was just too expensive to buy the machines necessary and do the process engineering to assemble the K-01 with modern methods).

I also believe the poor reception of the design by the reviewing press was intentionally fomented by Sony - already well along in development of their product - who would not allow Pentax to achieve a platform in the MILC space.


Last edited by monochrome; 11-24-2019 at 08:55 AM.
11-24-2019, 09:00 AM - 3 Likes   #95
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Great read. As I've always said, Pentax knows a lot more than many on this forum give them credit for, and are way ahead of the thinking of many of their critics here on the forum.

Everyone with a long rant that thinks they understand things better than Pentax does should give it a read. I couldn't find a thing I disagreed with.
Although this part made me laugh.

QuoteQuote:
We don't have any particular difficulties with our community because they defend the brand enormously - sometimes they are even a little radicalised!
Just a little? Ya think?

Might it be push back to all the public sneers?

I don't even try to talk to the "in crowd". I just hold up my ipad and say, want to see some picture I took with it?

But I have to ask those who go on about "Pentax has to do this and Pentax has to do that... what do you think of the way Pentax is proceeding after reading this?

My fall back position remains "Pentax has to do what Pentax has to do, and they'll do it when it's right for them to do it." NO one knows Pentax like Pentax knows Pentax.

Last edited by normhead; 11-24-2019 at 09:12 AM.
11-24-2019, 09:16 AM   #96
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Surprised that there hasn't been more comment about the final sentence re:video.

QuoteQuote:
Tomorrow, will we have to propose a camera dedicated to video, will it have to be a mirrorless camera? Several options are emerging but we have not made a decision yet.
Allowing for translation errors that seems to imply that there is hope that Pentax/Ricoh will address a shortfall in this area.

(Jumps into flame proof suit ready to be flared)
11-24-2019, 09:26 AM   #97
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What a fascinating and encouraging read. I wonder if the binoculars will be branded Ricoh or Pentax.

11-24-2019, 09:28 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by roberrl Quote
Surprised that there hasn't been more comment about the final sentence re:video.



Allowing for translation errors that seems to imply that there is hope that Pentax/Ricoh will address a shortfall in this area.

(Jumps into flame proof suit ready to be flared)
Anything is possible in Ricoh’s future cameras, they’re just admitting it - no need for the flame proof suit Plus, I think they fully understand going head to head with Panasonic and Sony in that area is probably not a good profit option.
11-24-2019, 09:37 AM - 2 Likes   #99
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This is also pretty interesting.
QuoteQuote:
• Initially, we designed [the KP] as a replacement for the K-3 Mark II, but we realised that we were selling it a lot more to non-Pentax customers.
And I thought this was really interesting.
QuoteQuote:
Our renewal rate is lower than those of Canon or Nikon. On the Pentax online forums, we do a big survey every second year asking which cameras people use and we find that a very large number of users are still using cameras that we launched 10 or 12 years ago. It's something you won't see anywhere else. (...) We may therefore offer more attractive trade-in offers to encourage users to switch to more modern equipment.
Proof of how much better built and durable Pentax cameras are?
Hard to say, but it's possible.

Just from my experience, I had a client using a D800 have his camera fail on canoe trip, he upgraded to aD810. He later upgraded to a D850.The camera i was using was 1 year older than his (my K-3, this was in 2015) and mine is still going. I know this guy bought a new camera and was totally locked into Nikon. SO Nikon sold three cameras to Pentax's 1... but it didn't give them more share of the user market. Only of the sales market, which between the two of us was 50/50.

Pentax's market share of actual users, is probably way above their market share in terms of what is being sold, because Pentax users as a whole replace their gear, less frequently.

Last edited by normhead; 11-26-2019 at 09:09 AM.
11-24-2019, 09:55 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think it was mostly that it was really expensive. I bought one for 220 dollars and was pleased with it. Was it perfect? No, but at that price it was way cheaper than any SLR Pentax was selling.

Pentax basically released a K30 that was always in live view, but with Marc Newson's design. They thought it would some sort of hipster thing, I guess. Turns out that most hipsters didn't know who Marc Newson was. Anyway, I think if they had released it at 400 or 450 they could have sold bunches.

The biggest problem was that it left Pentax with a fear of trying mirrorless K mount cameras.
All I really know about Marc Newson is that, when asked to design the K-01, he came up with a silly looking box that looks like a child's toy. Pentax did it one step further by selling many in the silliest color combinations possible. Remember the white and blue ones? Looks like Lego's.

I have thought about buying a K-01 now and painting it to be much more stealthy and using it for street shooting with a small prime like my M 28 f2.8 or maybe get an FA 35 f2. Then I realize I'd probably be better of with a Ricoh GR and I forget about the whole thing. Or I go look at Fuji bodies.
11-24-2019, 09:59 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The reason for Pentax have a dliemma with mirrorless is that they realize that the cost of making a mirrorless camera is lower than the cost of making a DSLR camera, while mirrorless cameras are priced higher than Pentax DSLR. Ricoh Imaging are having a problem to solve, they decided no to go mirrorless because they have the problem of not having the resources to make a new line of lenses for a new mount, and on the other hand DSLR are more complex and more costly to make than DSLR. They are stuck in a bad position.
Mirrorless cameras are priced higher....at the moment. It's new and there's a lot of hype around it. But that's not gonna last long. Are the costs of making lower than DSLR (?) -> soon the prices will drop and probably even below the DSLR price level.

If the other players bet everything on mirrorless, they'll suffer even more.
11-24-2019, 10:03 AM - 1 Like   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxis Quote
There are millions of k-mount film cameras gathering dust in attics, being bashed around in charity shops, and flogged off at car boot sales. Anyone who successfully engineers a simple, effective digital back for them will make a fortune in sales.


Such a solution would be an extremely environmentally appealing product and could be updated and iterated as new sensors and materials become available.


Pentax/Ricoh would be a prime candidate to design, optimise and manufacture the devices.
One of the better ideas I've heard for a long time. And imagine, you could get different backs for them, like IR, Visible, UV, B&W no Bayer matrix Full spectrum for Astro work...
11-24-2019, 10:09 AM - 1 Like   #103
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Someone should have asked when the 85 will be available.
11-24-2019, 10:14 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by aitrus3 Quote
One of the better ideas I've heard for a long time. And imagine, you could get different backs for them, like IR, Visible, UV, B&W no Bayer matrix Full spectrum for Astro work...
People have tried this idea, but the problem has always been communication with the mechanical components of a film body with the digital components of a back. They were never meant to be combined so there is a lot of jury-rigging to get things to work.

I'm Back's Digital Backs for Old 35mm Cameras Are Now In Production
11-24-2019, 10:17 AM - 3 Likes   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by aitrus3 Quote
One of the better ideas I've heard for a long time. And imagine, you could get different backs for them, like IR, Visible, UV, B&W no Bayer matrix Full spectrum for Astro work...
Or you could just load different film into them and go.... instead of buying half of a camera again and again.

How is the digital back going to do things like read the aperture ring coupling from the body and know where the ring is set? I'm not going to lose that function and still use a film body. And that's just the beginning; how do the controls on the top deck talk to a digital back on a camera body that was never meant to have interchangeable backs?

Get that camera out, clean it up, throw in new seals, and shoot film with it. Or sell it to someone that will. This is a dead end for a company like Ricoh.
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