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11-24-2019, 03:10 PM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
I've heard this before, but is it still true? Isn't the incident angle of the light rays at the borders of short flanged wa-lenses a problem on a digital sensor, even with microlenses on the sensels?

edit: I know that modern digital cameras tend to apply a normalisation, so to say vignetting correction already with the raw data (bad bad manufacturers...), but would a 645 mount be an advantage to the fancy new MF ML-mounts in this regard,? Anyone aware of tests of corner performance in a comparative way?
Well, I’m sure you know that was the reason Leica didn’t jump straight to a 35mm FF sensor with their first digital M-mount body. My understanding is that they solved the incidence-angle problem with the microlens redesign.

However, the L-mount has a flange focal distance (register, whatever) of 20mm, the same as the Canon RF, whereas the M-mount’s is 26.8mm. Again, as you probably know, the L-mount was originally designed for the CL and APS-C, but I imagine they had a larger sensor in mind from the start (or was it for the SL in the first place?).

The Nikon Z-mount’s is 16mm (which is possibly why the flange diameter is so big), by the way. Unless you want to keep the body as slim as possible, that’s possibly overdoing things, although you could probably design a pancake lens to go with it and have bragging rights about being able to keep one in your pocket.

The shortest FL Leica prime (unifocal) lens for L-mount is the 35 Summicron, which isn’t short in the barrel (suggesting it’s a retro-focus design, but I’ll rely on others with more knowledge than me on that score), but neither is their 16-35 Vario. However, it’s early days yet, and Panasonic have a big roadmap for their lens contribution.

11-24-2019, 03:32 PM - 1 Like   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by edri Quote
Is a K lens adapter for L mount technically feasible? This is still a question to be answered.
.
Already available for $212 from B&H. Manufacturer is Novoflex, one of the best makers of adapters in my opinion.
11-24-2019, 03:44 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I think it failed because
  1. it had no EVF.
  2. it had terrible AF (which got better with firmware updates but probably when it was too late already).
  3. it was fugly. Some liked it, many didn't. It definitely had a Fisher-Price aesthetic that was off-putting to many.
  4. it had ergonomic issues. It definitely wasn't made for regular Pentaxians but failed to attract the non-Pentaxians it was apparently made for.
  5. it was too expensive for what it was (when the price came down it apparently sold at a good rate but it was already a lost case at that point)
I can speak only for myself. This particular Pentaxian would have purchased a Pentax MILC of any color and almost any shape in summer 2015 - but after six months using a Q-7, I would never purchase one without an EVF, so I purchased my K-30 instead.
11-24-2019, 04:01 PM - 1 Like   #124
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All of this brings us back to the stated reason Ricoh had for not moving further into MILCs – the lack of a suitable EVF. I’ve forgotten how long ago that was, but I reckon it’s long enough that things have moved on sufficiently to make that no longer operable.

My Q doesn’t get much exercise these days, simply because of the lack of an EVF. Others have argued against that point of view in the past, but here in the bright Australian sun (even as far South as I am) it’s a handicap.

11-24-2019, 04:49 PM - 1 Like   #125
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EVFs to me need two things to overcome problems: faster refresh rates to eliminate any hint of lag and motion blurring, and a user adjustable ambient light level sensor that automatically adjusts brightness level to the shooting environment. This so you’re not putting your eye to a bright spot in a darkened environment but can still adjust it up or down as needed. A lower power draw would also be nice. A hybrid optical view finder with user selectable overlays or features may be closer to my ideal.
11-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by mlt Quote
EVFs to me need two things to overcome problems: faster refresh rates to eliminate any hint of lag and motion blurring, and a user adjustable ambient light level sensor that automatically adjusts brightness level to the shooting environment. This so you’re not putting your eye to a bright spot in a darkened environment but can still adjust it up or down as needed. A lower power draw would also be nice. A hybrid optical view finder with user selectable overlays or features may be closer to my ideal.
I believe these "problems" are more in the user's mind than anywhere else. I was one of a number of users who showed up when Nikon's "Z" road show came through town. I had one of the employees walk back-and-forth as I photographed him walking past a pillar - and I noticed no lag nor motion blurring.
11-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Or you could just load different film into them and go.... instead of buying half of a camera again and again.

How is the digital back going to do things like read the aperture ring coupling from the body and know where the ring is set? I'm not going to lose that function and still use a film body. And that's just the beginning; how do the controls on the top deck talk to a digital back on a camera body that was never meant to have interchangeable backs?

Get that camera out, clean it up, throw in new seals, and shoot film with it. Or sell it to someone that will. This is a dead end for a company like Ricoh.
Well you wouldn't be buying half a camera again and again. You wouldn't need to if you didn't want to. UV and IR film never worked all that well and are difficult to compose, and film would do zero for deep space photography.
Not my idea, just thought it has some potential. Maybe not a lot, but some. If they got it to work, I'd look at buying a back or two. Unless of course they've implemented the idea into the K3II replacement, then this would all be moot.
The other aspect: those who are using those old bodies are using them because they want film, so the digital back idea is just that, an idea. (And not mine, just voicing my thoughts at it could be neat).

11-24-2019, 05:33 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
" Tomorrow, will we have to propose a camera dedicated to video, will it have to be a mirrorless camera? Several options are emerging but we have not made a decision yet."

I wonder why there is so little reaction to this last remark from Mr. Farreng.

Video is my business. A mirror in a video camera? I assume Mr.Farreng is talking about a dedicated video camera is strange.
By nature video cameras have the image continuously available for a viewer.
Ricoh will be entering a battlefield when contemplating production of handheld video cameras.
That share of the market is already divided. Not much chance of a newcomer to get a substantial slice of the cake.

There is a strong resemblance between Hasselblad and Pentax.
Both companies have to battle against competition from their own products.
They last so long that customers do not even consider buying new equipment.

50 year old Carl Zeiss lenses are still going strong. After a full service they will add at least five more years to their lifespan.
It is sad to notice their IQ is still competative with more recent lenses. That gear is simply to well designed and constructed.

The same goes for Pnetax bodies and lenses.
Every day I use 35 year old Pentax A series lenses with a DSLR with excellent results.
Only yesterday I decided to say good bye to my K20d with kit lens.
Only yesterday I decided to buy a couple of new lenses to go with the K5 I bought.

If I were to stand stand for a typical Pentax user the company is not going to live long.
I guess most of current Pentax users do not care much about video features. With my last 3 pentax bodies I used to shot maybe 2 or 3 videos total...
Those for whom it matters already churned to Panasonic for instance.
11-24-2019, 06:04 PM - 4 Likes   #129
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Ricoh should not try to enter the MILC market -- Change my mind

QuoteOriginally posted by parinya-ekparinya Quote
I'm not quite sure what does this mean when they say they are taking the issue very seriously...
Ricoh are observing the growth in the high-end MILC market and wonder whether they should be entering a horse in the race.

I think, however, that this would necessitate a big paradigm shift on behalf of Ricoh. MILCs are loved by the press because
  • they are light and small to the point of compromising ergonomics.
  • they have advanced AF, including eye-AF and impressive AF-C performance, happily trading off IQ to optimise AF.
  • they are very competent video cameras, including AF and optical image stabilisation during video.
  • they use fast electronics for high frame rates to the point of overheating being an acceptable trade-off.
  • they come with an ecosystem of modern lenses, often with third-party support.
In other words, they are loved and promoted for everything Pentax cameras are not.

Ricoh would have to considerably step up their game in multiple areas and drastically change their investment strategy in order to compete in the MILC arena.

If they leave any weakness in an offering, you can count on the press to pick on Pentax/Ricoh again to demonstrate that they can be hard hitters when it won't hurt their bottom line. Given that Ricoh's advertising is practically non-existent and store presence has gone to practically zero in many areas, less than favourable reviews will be the death of any widespread success.

Unless Ricoh see any chance of breaking into an already overcrowded MILC market -- that is more likely to lose a player soon than to allow for another one -- by "doing a Sony" and force themselves into the market by losing money, no matter what, they are IMHO, better advised to play to their current strenghts and improve on the latter, rather than trying to compete in an arena where the desirable attributes do not align with their current camera design philosophies.

Last edited by Class A; 11-24-2019 at 06:18 PM.
11-24-2019, 07:00 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
they are light and small
Once upon a time that was probably true. But not so much today. Plus add lenses... Nowadays I am sure the press accept this.
Much of the criticism of Sony mirrorless even from sites like DPR is nowadays about ergonomics and usability rather than highlighting compactness. Probably Fuji and Panasonic mirrorless helped force that shift.


Source: camerasize.com
11-24-2019, 07:11 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
I guess most of current Pentax users do not care much about video features. With my last 3 pentax bodies I used to shot maybe 2 or 3 videos total...
I have shot more video than that - totally by accident! Occasionally when I'm in a hurry, I shoot video ... and miss what I meant to do. With my Q-7 and K-30, I put the camera into video mode when I mean to turn the mode dial to 'P' mode; with the KP, I push the lever past 'LV' to video.
11-24-2019, 09:45 PM   #132
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Very interesting points that were brought up. I look forward to next year's releases.
11-24-2019, 10:29 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
Already available for $212 from B&H. Manufacturer is Novoflex, one of the best makers of adapters in my opinion.
Not a simple tube like this. An adapter with electronic contacts, through which the lens communicates with the body. Screw AF lenses and lenses with lever for aperture control may not be fully adaptable, so it is good that Pentax will continue to develop DSLRs. Anyway, for any new ML Ricoh L-mount, you will need new, modern lenses.
11-24-2019, 11:22 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
What a fascinating and encouraging read. I wonder if the binoculars will be branded Ricoh or Pentax.
Should be Pentax.
Afaict there's no history of Ricoh and binoculars. Pentax though is very well known in the area.
11-25-2019, 01:03 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Ricoh are observing the growth in the high-end MILC market and wonder whether they should be entering a horse in the race.

I think, however, that this would necessitate a big paradigm shift on behalf of Ricoh. MILCs are loved by the press because
  • they are light and small to the point of compromising ergonomics.
  • they have advanced AF, including eye-AF and impressive AF-C performance, happily trading off IQ to optimise AF.
  • they are very competent video cameras, including AF and optical image stabilisation during video.
  • they use fast electronics for high frame rates to the point of overheating being an acceptable trade-off.
  • they come with an ecosystem of modern lenses, often with third-party support.
In other words, they are loved and promoted for everything Pentax cameras are not.
But it could be something what Ricoh stands for. As others have said, I hope that Pentax stays making DSLR and that is becuse I like to use it . But On the other hand again. Now when mirrorless is maturing, it could be that Ricoh will find a way to make one 'tomorrow', that would still please loyal customers. Who knows what they have really tried so far. And that picture ^ show that there is still room for personal way of making one. It is not like Pentax haven't tried that before, but things have gone forward.

About that L-mount thingy or something similar. Dunno. Sounds something similar to M42 was back in time. Then it would be about making body for it better/interesting/cheaper? Who would it serve? Is opening up that door going to bring a lot compared to other things. Ricoh would have to invest a lot to that too, anyway.
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