[PePe]

Everybody but Pentax and Fuji does that. Canon and Nikon, like Sony, just maintain an APS-C presence for casual and amateur photographers. Anyone who is more of an enthusiast needs to buy their FF offerings - at least in terms of lens offerings.

Yes. On the other hand I was really delighted to hear Mr Farreng clearly confirming Pentax’s support to all the three formats.

[mlt]

Yes, that was good to hear. CP+ should be interesting if they tease any news about further ff or mf plans.

[edri]

Asahi Optical is not trademarked. Neither 旭光学工業 (Asahi Kōgaku Kōgyō) nor the AOCo logo seem to be trademarked.

The Takumar trademark belongs to Ricoh Imaging (contrary to the Pentax trademark, it was transferred by Hoya to their subsidiary Pentax Imaging before the sale to Ricoh).

If Hoya changes mind, is it possible to ban Ricoh from using the Pentax brand? Or in the purchase agreement was it clearly stated that Ricoh can use the Pentax brand forever?

[tvdtvdtvd]

This is not that different than the situation over the past couple years, except that they are not developing a mirrorless system.

Ricoh has released on average 4 products, either branded Pentax or Ricoh, each year for the past three years. The release schedule
may be slower than many want, but products are being released. Not releasing anything for three years while all development is
focused on a mirrorless lineup would be a noticeable difference.

[Kunzite]

If Hoya changes mind, is it possible to ban Ricoh from using the Pentax brand? Or in the purchase agreement was it clearly stated that Ricoh can use the Pentax brand forever?

Even if the theoretical possibility would exist, why on Earth would the do such a crazy thing?
I imagine the backlash on Hoya after such a move would be quite severe; you don't want to do business with partners who back-stab you.

[tvdtvdtvd]

They know they can’t intentionally abandon K-mount. The K-mount is Pentax, along with Limited lenses. We must hope the K-mount doesn’t die of natural causes, of course.

I'd say the K-mount is much more fundamentally Pentax the even the Limited line. The Limited designs could easily be ported to another
mount. But a hard break from the K-mount would be devastating. Any new mount in a Pentax system would require a cracking good
adapter. I still wonder whether a GXR concept could solve the problem, even offer something revolutionary; swappable lens mount
modules on a camera. Imagine a camera that could natively take K-mount, L-mount, EF-mount, etc.... Large format cameras have
been doing this for decades with a simple lens board. Why can't the concept be used in a small format camera?

[BarneyL]

I still wonder whether a GXR concept could solve the problem, even offer something revolutionary; swappable lens mount
modules on a camera. Imagine a camera that could natively take K-mount, L-mount, EF-mount, etc.... Large format cameras have
been doing this for decades with a simple lens board. Why can't the concept be used in a small format camera?

Large format cameras don't have autofocus, auto aperture, ttl metering etc.

[monochrome]

^^ I love this concept. The engineering . . . Look at all the stuff around the mount and keep dust off the sensor.

[MMVIII]

Large format cameras don't have autofocus, auto aperture, ttl metering etc.

Right. But I still also think that a GXR concept might stir things up a little bit and avoid that Ricoh would need to produce more of the same, and being late at that...

Especially as AF, metering etc. is now done OTS (of the sensor), respectively by the sensor. This might make things feasible a DSLR was not able to in regards to flexibility and customisation.

Rocoh has a strong business2business tradition, it has the heritage of an interchangable sensor/mount GXR system and has acquired Pentax with a camera with a similar out of the box thinking with the LX. Go for the science, reconnaissance, documentation, digitalisation market! And astro-, landscape and studiophotographers might rejoice too...

---------- Post added 11-25-19 at 09:22 PM ----------

^^ I love this concept. The engineering . . . Look at all the stuff around the mount and keep dust off the sensor.

Haha, sure, but doesn't the movable screen solution show that some engineers in this company seem to like finding solutions noone would have expected...

[RobA_Oz]

Haha, sure, but doesn't the movable screen solution show that some engineers in this company seem to like finding solutions noone would have expected...

Not to mention the articulated mirror design, the third wheel and others we probably don’t know about because they’re buried inside the body.

[Mistral75]

(...)
Make the mount large enough for FF but not like the Nikon monster...

(...)

The diameter of the most recent 24x36 mounts:

• Sony E: 46.1mm (but deemed designed with APS-C in mind and a bit too narrow for 24x36 sensors)
• Leica L: 51.6 mm
• Canon EF: 54mm
• Canon RF: 54mm
• Contax N: 55mm
• Nikon Z: 55mm.

The Nikon Z mount is the largest but definitely no monster in comparison to the other mounts.

[Mistral75]

If Hoya changes mind, is it possible to ban Ricoh from using the Pentax brand? Or in the purchase agreement was it clearly stated that Ricoh can use the Pentax brand forever?

Hoya are bound by the provisions of the brand licence agreement. The licence agreement is distinct from the sale and purchase agreement: the former was signed by and between Hoya as licensor and Pentax Imaging (today Ricoh Imaging) as licensee, the latter by and between Hoya as seller and Ricoh as purchaser.

I don't know about the Japanese law but there is no such thing as a perpetual agreement according to most European laws: any such contract can be terminated by either party with reasonable notice. There is no quantitative definition of 'reasonable': the appropriate notice is determined by the judge, should a dispute be brought to court, and it increases with the time during which the agreement has been in force. One year's to two years' notice would be deemed reasonable for an agreement which has lasted ten to fifteen years, I would say.

However, the pieces of information I have come across point at a licence agreement with a fixed duration, extended beyond 2020 a few years ago.

[edri]

....
However, the pieces of information I have come across point at a licence agreement with a fixed duration, extended beyond 2020 a few years ago.

Hmm, that doesn't sound too good. However, after all the Pentax officials' speeches, it does not seem to be a problem to use the name Pentax in the unlimited future.

[manishved]

Hmm, that doesn't sound too good. However, after all the Pentax officials' speeches, it does not seem to be a problem to use the name Pentax in the unlimited future.

I can’t even imagine shooting with a camera that doesn’t the Pentax badge on it.

[MarkJerling]

A very interesting interview with Philippe Farreng, General Sales Manager for Europe, Ricoh Imaging:

Pentax fête ses 100 ans : "notre communauté est extrêmement attachée à notre marque"

Pentax celebrates their 100th anniversary: 'our community is extremely committed to our brand' (Google translation)

Some excerpts translated from French by yours truly:

• Ricoh also offer 360 cameras - which are progressing and are one of the company's major focuses. So we are doing more and more trade shows. (....) We are attending more and more B2B shows; the development of 360 cameras is really one of the company's priorities: we therefore have a request from Japan to be present at this type of event.
  xxx
• [In France] At the time of film photography - which was extremely stable - there were 2.5 million units sold per year. There were 300,000 cameras with interchangeable lenses and 2.2 million compact or bridge cameras. Today, if we take the French market for cameras with interchangeable lenses, we obtain more or less the same figures if we add those of DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. On the other hand, the entire compact market has completely disappeared. [the last part being slightly exaggerated ]
  xxx
• On the DSLR side, the market is decreasing more in volume than in value - since it is mainly the entry-level models that are disappearing. Full frame and premium models are more resilient compared to the market decline. Mirrorless cameras are now the only sector currently growing, but only its high-end part. (...) What is suffering today in the mirrorless market is mainly the cameras with 4/3" and APS-C sensors. Under Sony's leadership, the full-frame mirrorless market is doing well.
  xxx
• Today, the parent company in Japan is asking itself many questions about mirrorless cameras in order to determine whether Pentax shall enter this market, and if so in what form.
  xxx
• The full frame mirrorless market is already starting to become saturated in a very short time. (...) In order to hope to capture market share, we must be able to immediately announce a wide range of lenses. That's where the complexity lies today. Indeed, developing a mirrorless camera is easier than designing a SLR camera. However, the difficulty lies in developing a wide range of lenses in a very short period of time.
  xxx
• So there are several possibilities for us: to focus only on the niche market that the DSLRs will be tomorrow, to move towards mirrorless - but in this case, do we have the ability to enter this market with a sufficient optical range? - or to use an existing lens mount in partnership. But these are only options at the moment. Today, no final decision has been made on this topic as I speak.
  xxx
• In terms of development - new sensor, new design, electronic circuits - a DSLR takes about 14 to 18 months to be brought to market. With a mirrorless camera, this can be done in a much shorter time: in 8 to 10 months it is possible to design a mirrorless camera. The main difficulty is the lenses because different production lines are needed, so there are a number of issues that need to be managed.
  xxx
• Initially, we designed [the KP] as a replacement for the K-3 Mark II, but we realised that we were selling it a lot more to non-Pentax customers.
  xxx
• The Pentax fan community is very special because of its attachment to the brand. In many cases, the father owned a Pentax, which he later passed on to his children, who themselves bought a Pentax camera. We therefore have a community that is extremely loyal to Pentax, and that has always chosen our products because of certain features that they did not find in competing cameras at equivalent prices.
  xxx
• Our renewal rate is lower than those of Canon or Nikon. On the Pentax online forums, we do a big survey every second year asking which cameras people use and we find that a very large number of users are still using cameras that we launched 10 or 12 years ago. It's something you won't see anywhere else. (...) We may therefore offer more attractive trade-in offers to encourage users to switch to more modern equipment.
  xxx
• We don't have any particular difficulties with our community because they defend the brand enormously - sometimes they are even a little radicalised! The biggest challenge is to expand this base and get additional customers. We have recovered a number of customers with the launch of our full-frame camera and with the promotional operations around the K70 which is our key to entering the Pentax universe.
  xxx
• Today, Pentax is one of our 5 brands and only covers cameras and lenses.
  xxx
• One of the most important products of our group is the Ricoh GR, the ideal device for street photography. We launched the Ricoh GR III 6 months ago and we are enjoying an extraordinary success: compared to the sales we made with the GR II we have had an absolutely incredible jump, especially in Europe where we have multiplied our sales by 7 or 8. It's therefore one of the pillars of the group today and one of the areas Ricoh are investing heavily in. In the future, many developments in the GR range are to be expected.
  xxx
• The other development pillar concerns 360° cameras. We had envisaged a greater opening to the general public than the actual one and, at the moment, 3/4 of our volumes are made of B2B sales. It is a product that has found its place and we are very much the leader in B2B. One of the most obvious markets is that of real estate agencies, which are making more and more virtual tours of apartments or houses. But we have developed other activities, such as second-hand cars for example, or construction, surveillance or in the military field, where there is enormous potential for development with 360-degree video. The biggest challenge for us is to open this technology to the general public. We will develop the Theta range. The products that will arrive will be much more oriented towards the general public, especially in terms of application development.
  xxx
• We are redeveloping our binoculars and optics segment: there is a real demand and it is a particularly stable market, unlike digital photography.
  xxx
• We need to be rational, Ricoh's development cannot be achieved through Pentax DSLRs only. Today, the DSLR market is down by 15% every year: it does not allow a whole structure to live from it. (...) Ricoh Imaging's other segments are currently growing: the only one down is the DSLR segment because it follows the current market trend. The advantage is that the profits generated by the other segments can be reinvested in Pentax. (...) Next year, we will launch a flagship APS-C camera. (...) It's a camera that will have many new features. This kind of investment is possible thanks to the profits generated by the other segments.
  xxx
• DSLR is an integral part of Pentax's corporate culture. Even though they have been integrated into Ricoh, a large number of engineers on the Imaging side come from Pentax. There is therefore a real culture around DSLRs with new developments planned, both on the side of cameras and lenses.
  xxx
• On the mirrorless side, it is likely that the parent company in Japan is taking the issue very seriously due to the very clear market evolution.
  xxx
• Tomorrow, will we have to propose a camera dedicated to video, will it have to be a mirrorless camera? Several options are emerging but we have not made a decision yet.

Fantastic and informative post - Thank you for posting!