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11-28-2019, 02:56 AM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Based on sales, you may be a typical Pentax user, but not necessarily typical of camera users in general. Only time will tell which viewfinder is the ‘best’ choice for manufacturers to provide if they can provide only one choice.
Indeed. What I can't fathom though, is that I have what can be considered, perfectly 'normal' eyes. So, how do the screeds of mirrorless users do it? How do they put up with those viewfinders all day?

11-28-2019, 03:00 AM   #287
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Maybe they change glasses more often

---------- Post added 28-11-19 at 03:01 ----------

**TOO**
11-28-2019, 03:01 AM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
Only looking at those cameras hurts my eyes! 🤢
No, I would not go so far as to say that. Ergonomically, the Nikons are nice to handle. I find the EOS R a bit small but otherwise everything seems well positioned too. I'm not wild about the Sony interface, but, again, it's not bad.
11-28-2019, 03:42 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Based on sales, you may be a typical Pentax user, but not necessarily typical of camera users in general. Only time will tell which viewfinder is the ‘best’ choice for manufacturers to provide if they can provide only one choice.
Based on sales, most people are purchasing smart phones and foregoing any kind of ILC these days.

It is really hard to say how significant EVF related eye strain is. Obviously people use screens all day long on tablets and laptops and phones, but they don't literally hold them up to their eye balls and there is no doubt that a lot of people get eye strain even using a computer screen. There is a whole part of the computer industry bent on filtering blue light which is supposed to be the culprit. I don't if that is really cause but, my wife bought some of those glasses for reducing headaches when she edited a lot on a computer, but she ended up not liking the color shifts they gave and so she stopped using them.

11-28-2019, 03:46 AM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
No, I would not go so far as to say that. Ergonomically, the Nikons are nice to handle. I find the EOS R a bit small but otherwise everything seems well positioned too. I'm not wild about the Sony interface, but, again, it's not bad.
I was more thinking of the design.
11-28-2019, 04:19 AM - 2 Likes   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Yup, I've tried the Sony A7ii, the A7iii, the Nikon Z and the Canon EOS R. They all hurt my eyes.
I think it must be person-dependent. I use Panasonic Lumix G9s and a Nikon Z6 in my studio, and I don't mind the EVFs at all. I definitely prefer OVFs though, but I recognise the advantages and disadvantages of both. I still love my Pentaxes, and won't ever sell them (still have a k-7, K-5, K-5 II and K-3 to go with my K-3 II and K-1, which are my user cameras for non-studio and macro photography).
11-28-2019, 04:33 AM - 2 Likes   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Yup, I've tried the Sony A7ii, the A7iii, the Nikon Z and the Canon EOS R. They all hurt my eyes
You shouldn't worry about it, eye collyrium is normally included in the box when you buy a mirrorless cameras. They say, you have to pour 1 drop of collyrium before and after taking the picture.

11-28-2019, 07:06 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think medium format is the area where Ricoh should first launch mirrorless.
QuoteOriginally posted by edri Quote
The medium format is a very narrow niche, with very few buyers interested in this.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Indeed but the unit margins are nice and Ricoh are looking for profit, not revenue.
Unfortunately, Fuji have already beaten them to the punch with reasonably priced, MF mirrorless. Whether Pentax can compete on price or something else, I don't know, but it must make the segment less attractive with Fuji as a player now.
11-28-2019, 07:18 AM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Based on sales, most people are purchasing smart phones and foregoing any kind of ILC these days.

It is really hard to say how significant EVF related eye strain is. Obviously people use screens all day long on tablets and laptops and phones, but they don't literally hold them up to their eye balls and there is no doubt that a lot of people get eye strain even using a computer screen. There is a whole part of the computer industry bent on filtering blue light which is supposed to be the culprit. I don't if that is really cause but, my wife bought some of those glasses for reducing headaches when she edited a lot on a computer, but she ended up not liking the color shifts they gave and so she stopped using them.
The duration and intensity really makes a difference. If a whole day is analysing aerial photos on a screen my eyes are really showing reactions up to a headache etc. but I remember how tired I was after long days of analogue stereoscopic reconnaissance.
I have tried to read books and papers on a kindle. Much better than a tablet or laptop screen, but I still prefer a printout or book. Like with EVF there are a lot of advantages, annotation, dictionary etc. but for me it is still not there. And believe me, I have tried.

---------- Post added 11-28-19 at 04:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dieseler Quote
Unfortunately, Fuji have already beaten them to the punch with reasonably priced, MF mirrorless. Whether Pentax can compete on price or something else, I don't know, but it must make the segment less attractive with Fuji as a player now.
Some people (I think even Ricoh in one of the interviews) think that the entry of other players into the market might be a good thing in popularising this niche and that it would be of benefit for all of them. But they would have to act now, obviously, to reassure their commitment.
11-28-2019, 07:50 AM - 1 Like   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dieseler Quote
Unfortunately, Fuji have already beaten them to the punch with reasonably priced, MF mirrorless. Whether Pentax can compete on price or something else, I don't know, but it must make the segment less attractive with Fuji as a player now.
All segments have established competition. Pentax has a long history in the medium format segment and Fuji isn't meeting the needs of everyone. 50MP is more than most people need, so 100MP isn't a selling point for many. A lot of people would love to see a faster performing 50MP medium format camera with PDAF on sensor. Fuji isn't giving people that and the Fuji glass is nice, but its not spectacular. There is room for better glass. The Canon RF 85mm F/1.2 produces better images than the Fuji 110 F/2. I don't care much for the Canon bodies, but the glass is spectacular.


I think there is room for a faster performing 50MP mirrorless medium format with IBIS.
11-28-2019, 07:54 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
All segments have established competition. Pentax has a long history in the medium format segment and Fuji isn't meeting the needs of everyone. 50MP is more than most people need, so 100MP isn't a selling point for many. A lot of people would love to see a faster performing 50MP medium format camera with PDAF on sensor. Fuji isn't giving people that and the Fuji glass is nice, but its not spectacular. There is room for better glass. The Canon RF 85mm F/1.2 produces better images than the Fuji 110 F/2. I don't care much for the Canon bodies, but the glass is spectacular.


I think there is room for a faster performing 50MP mirrorless medium format with IBIS.
This ^^^
11-28-2019, 07:56 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Indeed. What I can't fathom though, is that I have what can be considered, perfectly 'normal' eyes. So, how do the screeds of mirrorless users do it? How do they put up with those viewfinders all day?
Before I retired, I was a Software Engineer, often sitting in front of a computer screen all day. Perhaps MILC users become used to it??
11-28-2019, 08:05 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Before I retired, I was a Software Engineer, often sitting in front of a computer screen all day. Perhaps MILC users become used to it??
Accept the pain! Do not fight it, make it part of your life! Get used with it, that's how it's going to be to the end of your life!
I'm siting in front of a computer screen all day - it doesn't help.
11-28-2019, 08:21 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Accept the pain! Do not fight it, make it part of your life! Get used with it, that's how it's going to be to the end of your life!
I'm siting in front of a computer screen all day - it doesn't help.
I was expressing a possible difference between Mark ii and me. You may be different - I can speak only for myself.
11-28-2019, 08:33 AM - 1 Like   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
EVFs are notorious for showing you what has already happened.
Do you remember hen the advice used to be to keep your left eye open if your right eye as to the viewfinder to get the bigger picture? I can see that causing headaches
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