[Mistral75]

So you cannot make the assumption that the K-new's development should take 18 months tops.

(...)

I neither can nor cannot: I don't make any such assumption. I see that the K-New's development begun some 22 months ago according to Mr Arai. I have no reason to challenge his statement.

(...)
The better question is, "was the KP designed as a replacement for the K-3 II, as stated by Mr Farreng, or was it a separate product, as stated by Mr Takashi Arai?"
I'd take the designer's word for it. You, the sales guy's.

I take both as perfectly explained just before by @Serkevan.

[Serkevan]

I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was to have 4 lines: APS-C entry level (K-70), APS-C advanced/"street" (KP), FF Action (let's say a 24MP K-1Turbo), FF Landscape (K-1ii). Shifting the Action/Sports camera to APS-C might be for the best from a business point of view however.

And yes, this post is speculation from my side.

[fsge]

I do not get why you guys are arguing about that. We are not part of Ricoh organization so will never know the Truth about this K transition...

[Serkevan]

I do not get why you guys are arguing about that. We are not part of Ricoh organization so will never know the Truth about this K transition...

I have 7 posts to go for the raffle

Jokes aside, it ultimately won't matter -in a practical sense, at least: the K-New will come when it comes and I am certain it will rock when it does. However, I think it's interesting to "read between the lines" and try to get a glimpse of how things move -or seem to move- at Ricoh Imaging HQ.

Because if I'm right, either the KP will be the last of its kind, or we won't see a second FF line of cameras to complement the K-1. Well, alternatively, the K-70 line disappears, but I believe that 4 lines is optimal for two teams with a relatively "relaxed" release cycle.

[Mistral75]

^ Don't forget that Ricoh Imaging also have to throw in a GR iteration from time to time and possibly (one can dream) a 645 camera.

[Serkevan]

I would like to think that the GR requires less time to design; the GRiii (on topic for once, yeehaw!) seems to borrow a bunch of tech from the Pentax "bigger sisters": SR and the associated Dust Removal are two of the most important improvements, and I suppose they weren't super hard to implement after the experience of several other cameras.

As for the 645... eeeeeehhhhhh one can dream, can one not? Hopefully the next news is not "discontinued"...

[Class A]

There was a two-year interval between K-5 and K-5 II, easily explained by the Pentax camera business being sold by Hoya to Ricoh just in the middle of it.

I think this was probably more a result of the 2011 earthquake/tsunami.

Thanks to both of you. I tend to not commit such events to memory.

[Class A]

I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was to have 4 lines: APS-C entry level (K-70), APS-C advanced/"street" (KP), FF Action (let's say a 24MP K-1Turbo), FF Landscape (K-1ii).

Why not

1. APS-C entry level (K-70)
2. APS-C compact/alternative (KP)
3. APS-C performance (K-3 II)
4. FF (K-1)

?
It would seem plausible to me that the "APS-C performance" line was dropped because it was assumed that most of the respective customers would choose the "FF" line anyhow.

Rather than stating "We dropped a line", it sounds better to state "We have a new APS-C flagship".

Apologies if I missed any posts that went over that already.

[Mistral75]

I would like to think that the GR requires less time to design; the GRiii (on topic for once, yeehaw!) seems to borrow a bunch of tech from the Pentax "bigger sisters": SR and the associated Dust Removal are two of the most important improvements, and I suppose they weren't super hard to implement after the experience of several other cameras.

(...)

Yet, when one looks at the timetable of launches since 2016, it has been one premium camera per year, including the GR series:

• 2016: K-1
• 2017: KP
• 2018: K-1 Mark II
• 2019: GR III
• 2020: K-New

[Class A]

...and possibly (one can dream) a 645 camera.

They have an opportunity to be the first to offer a non-crop digital MF sensor camera for a reasonable price.

That could potentially cause a bit of news and would put the spotlight on Fuji whose MF cameras use the same baby-MF format as most others (including the 645Z).

I guess reviewers would be quick to point out the lack of modern MF lenses...

[Mistral75]

They have an opportunity to be the first to offer a non-crop digital MF sensor camera for a reasonable price.

That could potentially cause a bit of news and would put the spotlight on Fuji whose MF cameras use the same baby-MF format as most others (including the 645Z).

I guess reviewers would be quick to point out the lack of modern MF lenses...

Indeed they would and that's the dilemma Ricoh Imaging are facing: what the point of a super-pixelated medium format sensor when most of the lenses that go with the camera are 20 years old and more?

Besides, I think that the 40mm x 53.4mm Sony sensors, be it the 100MP FSI older one or the 150MP BSI newer one, are far from cheap, thus preventing Ricoh 'to offer a non-crop digital MF sensor camera for a reasonable price.'

[reh321]

I have 7 posts to go for the raffle

Jokes aside, it ultimately won't matter -in a practical sense, at least: the K-New will come when it comes and I am certain it will rock when it does. However, I think it's interesting to "read between the lines" and try to get a glimpse of how things move -or seem to move- at Ricoh Imaging HQ.

Because if I'm right, either the KP will be the last of its kind, or we won't see a second FF line of cameras to complement the K-1. Well, alternatively, the K-70 line disappears, but I believe that 4 lines is optimal for two teams with a relatively "relaxed" release cycle.

I don't think there is a place in the market for both the K-70 and the KP. Even before the KP was announced, I was wondering how they would continue the K-70 line in accordance with their announced intention to become a more "premium" line. The K-S2/70 aperture control unit clearly works better than the K-30/50 version - but not as well as many of us would hope. Putting all of this thinking together, I would not be surprised it Pentax continues the K-70 line in some way, but "borrows" aperture control from the KP {and the KP is one of its kind}. Putting this together with the naming reversion that seems likely {running out of names in every category and beginning a new 'century' of the brand}, I expect APS-C lines to be two, and us to have fruitless discussions about whether the bottom line is a K-70 or a KP successor.

[Class A]

what the point of a super-pixelated medium format sensor when most of the lenses that go with the camera are 20 years old and more?

Well, a larger sensor does not mean a "super-pixelated" sensor.

Just making the sensor larger, without increasing pixel density at the same time, would actually help those 20 year-old lenses to perform better.
Currently, the crop-sensors put a magnifying glass (albeit only with 1.2x magnification) on their weaknesses.

Besides, I think that the 40mm x 53.4mm Sony sensors, be it the 100MP FSI older one or the 150MP BSI newer one, are far from cheap, thus preventing Ricoh 'to offer a non-crop digital MF sensor camera for a reasonable price.'

With "reasonable", I meant "significantly cheaper" than current competitors.

The initial $10,000 for the 645D were hardly "reasonable" for the average photographer, but were significantly less than what MF lovers had to pay for competitors prior to the 645D.

Isn't it the case that Ricoh could offer a camera with a big 40mmx53mm sensor that wouldn't cost nearly as much as current, comparable models?

[fsge]

I have 7 posts to go for the raffle

Jokes aside, it ultimately won't matter -in a practical sense, at least: the K-New will come when it comes and I am certain it will rock when it does. However, I think it's interesting to "read between the lines" and try to get a glimpse of how things move -or seem to move- at Ricoh Imaging HQ.

Because if I'm right, either the KP will be the last of its kind, or we won't see a second FF line of cameras to complement the K-1. Well, alternatively, the K-70 line disappears, but I believe that 4 lines is optimal for two teams with a relatively "relaxed" release cycle.

How did I manage to forget about the raffle
I would regret possible K70 disappearing, being the entry door of pentax cameras. KP form factor is very convenient and it would make sense to have a mark 2.

[Mistral75]

Well, a larger sensor does not mean a "super-pixelated" sensor.

Just making the sensor larger, without increasing pixel density at the same time, would actually help those 20 year-old lenses to perform better.
(...)

Unfortunately, Ricoh Imaging have to make do with what's available. The 50MP 'crop' sensor in the 645Z has a 5.3µm pixel pitch, the 100MP 40x53.4 sensor a 4.6µm pixel pitch and the 150MP 40x53.4 sensor a 3.76µm pixel pitch.

(...)
Currently, the crop-sensors put a magnifying glass (albeit only with 1.2x magnification) on their weaknesses.

(...)

Indeed; at the same time, they cut off their corner weaknesses.

(...)

With "reasonable", I meant "significantly cheaper" than current competitors.

The initial $10,000 for the 645D were hardly "reasonable" for the average photographer, but were significantly less than what MF lovers had to pay for competitors prior to the 645D.

Isn't it the case that Ricoh could offer a camera with a big 40mmx53mm sensor that wouldn't cost nearly as much as current, comparable models?

I presume Ricoh could offer a camera with a 40x53.4 sensor that wouldn't cost nearly as much as current, comparable models, considering that:

• the Hasselblad H6D-100c costs $33,000
• the Phase One XF IQ4 100MP Trichromatic (digital back only) costs $43,000 ($48,000 with XF camera body, prism viewfinder and lens) and
• the Phase One XF IQ4 150MP (digital back only) costs $47,000 ($52,000 with XF camera body, prism viewfinder and lens)

Whilst being significantly cheaper than current competitors, say $15-20,000, would it find a market when the Fujifilm GFX 100 (admittedly with a 33x44 sensor only) costs $10,000 and offers nine newly designed, top-notch lenses and an AF teleconverter?