Good news ... K-1 is one of 20 most important cameras of the decade - DPReview

**Rondec** · 12-12-2019, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The first "affordable" FF DSLR was the 5D, wasn't it?

I think it ended up being that way. Both it and the D700 were released with a retail price of 3000, but quickly fell into more affordable ranges. It is just tough for me to see pricing as an innovation. But maybe I'm just too hard on DP Review. They seem to have developed a knack for buzz feed style articles where you have to click on a million pages, each of which has one or two paragraphs on it. What's on the lists is really less important as that there is advertising on each page...

Kunzite · 12-12-2019, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think it ended up being that way. Both it and the D700 were released with a retail price of 3000, but quickly fell into more affordable ranges. It is just tough for me to see pricing as an innovation. But maybe I'm just too hard on DP Review. They seem to have developed a knack for buzz feed style articles where you have to click on a million pages, each of which has one or two paragraphs on it. What's on the lists is really less important as that there is advertising on each page...

DPR shouldn't confuse innovation with importance in the first place

You're right, a low price isn't innovation - but a type of camera becoming "affordable" can be important. Similarly, a certain camera that combined the worst from a photographic camera and a smartphone was not important at all, for the reasons already stated.

Anyway, I'm trying not to over-criticize them, the only point with which I really disagree is the Galaxy NX. Of course, my list would be much different - the 645D? The Theta? - while also overlapping theirs. But, this isn't my list.

**Rondec** · 12-12-2019, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

DPR shouldn't confuse innovation with importance in the first place

You're right, a low price isn't innovation - but a type of camera becoming "affordable" can be important. Similarly, a certain camera that combined the worst from a photographic camera and a smartphone was not important at all, for the reasons already stated.

Anyway, I'm trying not to over-criticize them, the only point with which I really disagree is the Galaxy NX. Of course, my list would be much different - the 645D? The Theta? - while also overlapping theirs. But, this isn't my list.

I'm not totally sure what important means, except that other camera makers see what you have done and emulate it. What DP Review is saying with this list is that the most important development in the last decade has been mirrorless tech and any milestones in its development should be designated as important.

That's fine, I just see cameras like the D810, 7D II, and D500 and think that they were pretty important for the time, but maybe not as important as the Nikon J1?

Jonathan Mac · 12-12-2019, 05:19 AM - **1 Like**

DPR don't [ihate Pentax, but they do seriously under-value them because they seriously under-value the aspects of Pentax cameras that make them so good and which other makes do poorly - build quality, design for photographers who know what they're doing rather than people who have just heard that DSLRs are good, weather resistance, value for money, small & very high quality lenses etc etc.

It's good that they acknowledge the K-1 as an important camera but the 645Z was at least as important, being the camera that created the reasonably-priced (for digital medium format) digital medium format market and the first to break the 100 mark of image quality on DXO.

They also mark as important a few cameras which were not important at all and were complete failures (not that these two aspects necessarily go together, but in these cases they do). The Nikon 1-system cameras?? They were very poorly thought out. The Samsung that was also a phone? Come on now, be serious.

H. Sapiens · 12-12-2019, 07:54 AM

I haven't read the article, just looked at the collection of cameras ... but surely, we can agree that the most important cameras of the past 10 years have been in smartphones, drones and action cams the likes of Go Pro. Fuji for making cameras a stylish accessory. (I'll leave out surveillance cams and stuff like that)

Those cams have actually changed the field of photography.

I am not saying DSLR's doesn't belong on a list, but this is a friendly nod to each of the major camera companies and their fans.

**Serkevan** · 12-12-2019, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Jean Poitiers

Another good one ... and I have never heard that one before.

My (French) wife is always getting on my case about how poorly I pronounce my French "rrrrr" ... just ain't gonna happen, dude.

I'm Spanish. My French friend told me several times I pronounce my French "r" like a German. In Germany, I'm told I pronounce my German "r"... like a French. I've since decided to screw everything, stop trying and harden them so much that I can hit people with them

**luftfluss** · 12-12-2019, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by H. Sapiens

I haven't read the article, just looked at the collection of cameras ... but surely, we can agree that the most important cameras of the past 10 years have been in smartphones, drones and action cams the likes of Go Pro. Fuji for making cameras a stylish accessory. (I'll leave out surveillance cams and stuff like that)

Those cams have actually changed the field of photography.

I am not saying DSLR's doesn't belong on a list, but this is a friendly nod to each of the major camera companies and their fans.

A number of folks in the DPR comments section mentioned GoPro, but they actually defined (essentially) and built their niche in the previous decade.

I'm thinking that since drones involve so much more than just a camera, DPR excluded them.

In the DPR comments section, I argued that the Pentax 645D should have been on the list. Not only was it priced just a bit more than top-flight FF DSLR's, but it was a MF DSLR than was readily hand-holdable, weather-sealed, and gave users the opportunity to use scads of affordable legacy MF glass.

H. Sapiens · 12-12-2019, 09:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by luftfluss

A number of folks in the DPR comments section mentioned GoPro, but they actually defined (essentially) and built their niche in the previous decade.

I'm thinking that since drones involve so much more than just a camera, DPR excluded them.

In the DPR comments section, I argued that the Pentax 645D should have been on the list. Not only was it priced just a bit more than top-flight FF DSLR's, but it was a MF DSLR than was readily hand-holdable, weather-sealed, and gave users the opportunity to use scads of affordable legacy MF glass.

Imagine some sort of organisation for photography across the different fields chose 20 'togs with different focus - landscape, wedding, portraits, sports, travel, news, art etc. with a couple of "intellectuals" (editors of news organisations or something) and have them have this conversation. Sorry friends, few of our big, black boxes with expensive lenses make a difference today. The fact that every camera is now also a video camera makes a difference. The fact every guy or girl from Adelaide to Yangon have a camera with them all the time makes a difference. For opening for a whole new perspective, drones.

Leica used to make a difference. Not today. Pentax ... most believe they are gone already. Olympus. Rumours tell they are gone next year.

I agree that the 645D is a more significant camera. Just a shame Pentax didn't have the backup from Ricoh to push it harder, and left that market to Fuji.

danielblues · 12-12-2019, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by WillWeaverRVA

No, that wasn't DPR. DPR actually had a fairly positive review of the KP and gave it a silver award. It more recently got listed as one of the best cameras under $1000.

That was the camera store guys

You Tube

that are now at DPR. They were drunk, the KP was good then and i$ gr€at now.

ecostigny · 12-12-2019, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

DPR has a history of lacking enthusiasm for follow-ups in the same line if they offer only tepid improvements. For example, they were so underwhelmed by the Canon EOS 6D MkII that it didn't even merit a ranking. They recommended the Nikon D750 and Pentax K-1 as superior DSLR alternatives.

I've noticed that myself. In their mindset, every follow-on has to be a great leap forward; otherwise, what's the point?

dcpropilot · 12-12-2019, 06:07 PM

After reading the DPR narrative, I am happy to say that it was very good. "Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally. Now owned by Ricoh, Pentax has had a rocky few years but it's still hanging in there, thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand."

Is this true?

**c.a.m** · 12-12-2019, 06:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dcpropilot

After reading the DPR narrative, I am happy to say that it was very good. "Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally. Now owned by Ricoh, Pentax has had a rocky few years but it's still hanging in there, thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand."Is this true?

I also read the DPR piece, and came away generally neutral. Although the author doesn't explain their definition of "important" or "significant," the article does include a number of noteworthy cameras. I don't have any 'dog in the fight' and simply treated the piece as entertainment.

On a casual read of the K-1 section, one might fairly think that it's a positive account. However, I was somewhat disappointed by the part that you've quoted here. Parsing the statement, here is my interpretation.

"Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally." I think this could apply to any brand -- the web is full of passionate stories about them. This characteristic is not unique to Pentax, so why has the writer singled out Pentax as "one of those brands..."?

"Now owned by Ricoh," Seems to be an odd statement to include, as Ricoh acquired the Pentax imaging business in 2011. I think we're well into the Ricoh era.

"Pentax has had a rocky few years..." Seems a bit pejorative to me -- are the readers supposed to nod wisely and agree, or should the author have explained their claim?

"...but it's still hanging in there,..." Not sure what the writer intended here, but I think it's a negative connotation.

"...thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand." To me, it seems that the writer is suggesting that the Pentax products are not really worthy of purchase; it's just the diehard users who keep the business alive regardless of the quality. I don't think 'Pentaxians' are blindly loyal as the writer might be implying.

- Craig

danielblues · 12-12-2019, 08:29 PM

You forgot the best quote...

"It's included here because it's one of those rare products that deserves to be celebrated: a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers. The K-1 was packed with all the special features that Pentax users had come to appreciate in the company's APS-C DSLRs, and being full-frame it was fully compatible with their collection of lenses going back decades - something that Pentax shooters had been waiting for, for a long time."

It's true, Samsung had it all and leave, Ricoh is trying to make work, sloooowly, but trying.

**fs999** · 12-13-2019, 01:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Jean Poitiers

My (French) wife is always getting on my case about how poorly I pronounce my French "rrrrr" ...

I can confirm that your "r"s are horrrrrrrible

fsge · 12-13-2019, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by danielblues

You forgot the best quote...

"It's included here because it's one of those rare products that deserves to be celebrated: a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers. The K-1 was packed with all the special features that Pentax users had come to appreciate in the company's APS-C DSLRs, and being full-frame it was fully compatible with their collection of lenses going back decades - something that Pentax shooters had been waiting for, for a long time."

It's true, Samsung had it all and leave, Ricoh is trying to make work, sloooowly, but trying.

I did not read the full article but this quote "a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers" is not totally wrong.

12-12-2019, 06:47 PM - 1 Like	#72
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by dcpropilot After reading the DPR narrative, I am happy to say that it was very good. "Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally. Now owned by Ricoh, Pentax has had a rocky few years but it's still hanging in there, thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand."Is this true? I also read the DPR piece, and came away generally neutral. Although the author doesn't explain their definition of "important" or "significant," the article does include a number of noteworthy cameras. I don't have any 'dog in the fight' and simply treated the piece as entertainment. On a casual read of the K-1 section, one might fairly think that it's a positive account. However, I was somewhat disappointed by the part that you've quoted here. Parsing the statement, here is my interpretation. "Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally." I think this could apply to any brand -- the web is full of passionate stories about them. This characteristic is not unique to Pentax, so why has the writer singled out Pentax as "one of those brands..."? "Now owned by Ricoh," Seems to be an odd statement to include, as Ricoh acquired the Pentax imaging business in 2011. I think we're well into the Ricoh era. "Pentax has had a rocky few years..." Seems a bit pejorative to me -- are the readers supposed to nod wisely and agree, or should the author have explained their claim? "...but it's still hanging in there,..." Not sure what the writer intended here, but I think it's a negative connotation. "...thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand." To me, it seems that the writer is suggesting that the Pentax products are not really worthy of purchase; it's just the diehard users who keep the business alive regardless of the quality. I don't think 'Pentaxians' are blindly loyal as the writer might be implying. - Craig Last edited by c.a.m; 12-12-2019 at 07:25 PM.

12-13-2019, 01:51 AM - 1 Like	#74
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,638	Originally posted by Jean Poitiers My (French) wife is always getting on my case about how poorly I pronounce my French "rrrrr" ... I can confirm that your "r"s are horrrrrrrible Last edited by fs999; 12-13-2019 at 07:01 AM.

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12-12-2019, 04:03 AM	#61
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Kunzite The first "affordable" FF DSLR was the 5D, wasn't it? I think it ended up being that way. Both it and the D700 were released with a retail price of 3000, but quickly fell into more affordable ranges. It is just tough for me to see pricing as an innovation. But maybe I'm just too hard on DP Review. They seem to have developed a knack for buzz feed style articles where you have to click on a million pages, each of which has one or two paragraphs on it. What's on the lists is really less important as that there is advertising on each page...

12-12-2019, 04:09 AM	#62
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec I think it ended up being that way. Both it and the D700 were released with a retail price of 3000, but quickly fell into more affordable ranges. It is just tough for me to see pricing as an innovation. But maybe I'm just too hard on DP Review. They seem to have developed a knack for buzz feed style articles where you have to click on a million pages, each of which has one or two paragraphs on it. What's on the lists is really less important as that there is advertising on each page... DPR shouldn't confuse innovation with importance in the first place You're right, a low price isn't innovation - but a type of camera becoming "affordable" can be important. Similarly, a certain camera that combined the worst from a photographic camera and a smartphone was not important at all, for the reasons already stated. Anyway, I'm trying not to over-criticize them, the only point with which I really disagree is the Galaxy NX. Of course, my list would be much different - the 645D? The Theta? - while also overlapping theirs. But, this isn't my list.

12-12-2019, 04:17 AM	#63
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Kunzite DPR shouldn't confuse innovation with importance in the first place You're right, a low price isn't innovation - but a type of camera becoming "affordable" can be important. Similarly, a certain camera that combined the worst from a photographic camera and a smartphone was not important at all, for the reasons already stated. Anyway, I'm trying not to over-criticize them, the only point with which I really disagree is the Galaxy NX. Of course, my list would be much different - the 645D? The Theta? - while also overlapping theirs. But, this isn't my list. I'm not totally sure what important means, except that other camera makers see what you have done and emulate it. What DP Review is saying with this list is that the most important development in the last decade has been mirrorless tech and any milestones in its development should be designated as important. That's fine, I just see cameras like the D810, 7D II, and D500 and think that they were pretty important for the time, but maybe not as important as the Nikon J1?

12-12-2019, 05:19 AM - 1 Like	#64
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,894	DPR don't [ihate Pentax, but they do seriously under-value them because they seriously under-value the aspects of Pentax cameras that make them so good and which other makes do poorly - build quality, design for photographers who know what they're doing rather than people who have just heard that DSLRs are good, weather resistance, value for money, small & very high quality lenses etc etc. It's good that they acknowledge the K-1 as an important camera but the 645Z was at least as important, being the camera that created the reasonably-priced (for digital medium format) digital medium format market and the first to break the 100 mark of image quality on DXO. They also mark as important a few cameras which were not important at all and were complete failures (not that these two aspects necessarily go together, but in these cases they do). The Nikon 1-system cameras?? They were very poorly thought out. The Samsung that was also a phone? Come on now, be serious.

12-12-2019, 07:54 AM	#65
H. Sapiens Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 328	I haven't read the article, just looked at the collection of cameras ... but surely, we can agree that the most important cameras of the past 10 years have been in smartphones, drones and action cams the likes of Go Pro. Fuji for making cameras a stylish accessory. (I'll leave out surveillance cams and stuff like that) Those cams have actually changed the field of photography. I am not saying DSLR's doesn't belong on a list, but this is a friendly nod to each of the major camera companies and their fans.

12-12-2019, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#66
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Jean Poitiers Another good one ... and I have never heard that one before. My (French) wife is always getting on my case about how poorly I pronounce my French "rrrrr" ... just ain't gonna happen, dude. I'm Spanish. My French friend told me several times I pronounce my French "r" like a German. In Germany, I'm told I pronounce my German "r"... like a French. I've since decided to screw everything, stop trying and harden them so much that I can hit people with them

12-12-2019, 08:28 AM	#67
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by H. Sapiens I haven't read the article, just looked at the collection of cameras ... but surely, we can agree that the most important cameras of the past 10 years have been in smartphones, drones and action cams the likes of Go Pro. Fuji for making cameras a stylish accessory. (I'll leave out surveillance cams and stuff like that) Those cams have actually changed the field of photography. I am not saying DSLR's doesn't belong on a list, but this is a friendly nod to each of the major camera companies and their fans. A number of folks in the DPR comments section mentioned GoPro, but they actually defined (essentially) and built their niche in the previous decade. I'm thinking that since drones involve so much more than just a camera, DPR excluded them. In the DPR comments section, I argued that the Pentax 645D should have been on the list. Not only was it priced just a bit more than top-flight FF DSLR's, but it was a MF DSLR than was readily hand-holdable, weather-sealed, and gave users the opportunity to use scads of affordable legacy MF glass.

12-12-2019, 09:22 AM - 1 Like	#68
H. Sapiens Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 328	Originally posted by luftfluss A number of folks in the DPR comments section mentioned GoPro, but they actually defined (essentially) and built their niche in the previous decade. I'm thinking that since drones involve so much more than just a camera, DPR excluded them. In the DPR comments section, I argued that the Pentax 645D should have been on the list. Not only was it priced just a bit more than top-flight FF DSLR's, but it was a MF DSLR than was readily hand-holdable, weather-sealed, and gave users the opportunity to use scads of affordable legacy MF glass. Imagine some sort of organisation for photography across the different fields chose 20 'togs with different focus - landscape, wedding, portraits, sports, travel, news, art etc. with a couple of "intellectuals" (editors of news organisations or something) and have them have this conversation. Sorry friends, few of our big, black boxes with expensive lenses make a difference today. The fact that every camera is now also a video camera makes a difference. The fact every guy or girl from Adelaide to Yangon have a camera with them all the time makes a difference. For opening for a whole new perspective, drones. Leica used to make a difference. Not today. Pentax ... most believe they are gone already. Olympus. Rumours tell they are gone next year. I agree that the 645D is a more significant camera. Just a shame Pentax didn't have the backup from Ricoh to push it harder, and left that market to Fuji.

12-12-2019, 10:49 AM	#70
ecostigny Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Branford, CT Posts: 561	Originally posted by luftfluss DPR has a history of lacking enthusiasm for follow-ups in the same line if they offer only tepid improvements. For example, they were so underwhelmed by the Canon EOS 6D MkII that it didn't even merit a ranking. They recommended the Nikon D750 and Pentax K-1 as superior DSLR alternatives. I've noticed that myself. In their mindset, every follow-on has to be a great leap forward; otherwise, what's the point?

12-12-2019, 06:07 PM	#71
dcpropilot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 941	After reading the DPR narrative, I am happy to say that it was very good. "Pentax is one of those brands that its fans just love - passionately and loyally. Now owned by Ricoh, Pentax has had a rocky few years but it's still hanging in there, thanks in no small part to a small army of repeat customers that can't imagine ever buying from another brand." Is this true?

12-12-2019, 08:29 PM	#73
danielblues Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Cascais, Portugal Posts: 173	You forgot the best quote... "It's included here because it's one of those rare products that deserves to be celebrated: a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers. The K-1 was packed with all the special features that Pentax users had come to appreciate in the company's APS-C DSLRs, and being full-frame it was fully compatible with their collection of lenses going back decades - something that Pentax shooters had been waiting for, for a long time." It's true, Samsung had it all and leave, Ricoh is trying to make work, sloooowly, but trying.

12-13-2019, 02:25 AM	#75
fsge Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Genf Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by danielblues You forgot the best quote... "It's included here because it's one of those rare products that deserves to be celebrated: a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers. The K-1 was packed with all the special features that Pentax users had come to appreciate in the company's APS-C DSLRs, and being full-frame it was fully compatible with their collection of lenses going back decades - something that Pentax shooters had been waiting for, for a long time." It's true, Samsung had it all and leave, Ricoh is trying to make work, sloooowly, but trying. I did not read the full article but this quote "a love letter, in effect, from a manufacturer to its customers" is not totally wrong.