Good news ... K-1 is one of 20 most important cameras of the decade - DPReview

Kunzite · 12-13-2019, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Class A

Don't know about that. What was the story regarding Pentax-specific ratings?

The K10D got a "Highly Recommended (just)" because of "soft" JPEGs - the standard complaint against Pentax at that time. Ergonomics and handling were also considered so-so, not as "bad" as image quality though.

Class A · 12-13-2019, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The K10D got a "Highly Recommended (just)" because of "soft" JPEGs

They still obsess about JPEG quality.
Not only that but about default JPEG settings!

At least the K10D got a recommendation back then. The K-1 II got nothing. Zilch. Nada.

redmenace · 12-13-2019, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by StiffLegged

Who is DPReview?

FKA photo.askey.net, founded by Phil Askey. It's changed a bit since then, I reckon.

Kunzite · 12-14-2019, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Class A

They still obsess about JPEG quality.
Not only that but about default JPEG settings!

At least the K10D got a recommendation back then. The K-1 II got nothing. Zilch. Nada.

That wasn't even quality but sharpening. True, Pentax responded to that by adding further sharpening levels.

The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it? They even lost that prize... to the "Yashika"!

zapp · 12-14-2019, 06:58 AM - **1 Like**

Nikon Z and Canon R are too young for the list. Sony A series covers mirrorless.
Leica T Model is a lame duck.
D850 is important, the big step was D800.
Sony A7 is major, A9 is an evolution
The list is a mixture of well selling cameras as well as naming one camera per major brand, plus a lot of what some fanboy likes.
In my list Pentax K1 would not appear. Important for Pentax, but not for the world.

Class A · 12-14-2019, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it?

It did.

The fact that Ricoh offered K-1 owners an upgrade option to bring their K-1s up to K-1 II specs was used against the K-1 II, arguing that it can't be much of an update, if that is possible.

Never mind that the update required replacing the whole PCB and that the upgrade option should have been celebrated as something other manufacturers should be picking up on, instead of being turned into a negative. They do like firmware updates, don't they? Why aren't these lame as well?

I dislike this aversion against refinement to start with. The K-1 didn't need a ton of changes in order to be a great tool for the application areas it was designed for.
Of course some would have liked to see faster buffer clearing, better video specs, ultimate AF, and what not, but then the camera would have ended up in a different price bracket. The point of the K-1 II design exercise was not to keep producing the K-1 and offer another distinctly better product alongside the K-1. Hard to understand why anyone could struggle that much to get to grips with that.

Class A · 12-14-2019, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by zapp

In my list Pentax K1 would not appear. Important for Pentax, but not for the world.

How about the fact that such a feature-packed camera at a comparatively low price should keep other manufacturers more honest with respect to their pricing?

Ideally Pentax should have more market penetration for this aspect of importance to really come into effect, but nevertheless, I think the K-1 stands out as a bargain (with certain limitations, but a bargain nevertheless).

Isn't it furthermore unique with respect to offering a combination of IBIS, Pixel Shift, and OVF?
Alternatives are only available if one can stand EVFs. I can't.

Kunzite · 12-14-2019, 07:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

The K-1 didn't need a ton of changes in order to be a great tool for the application areas it was designed for.

Right. And it needed a complete overhaul to address application areas it wasn't designed for.
No way it could've been done with an update.

Class A · 12-14-2019, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

No way it could've been done with an update.

Bah, you must be one of those Pentaxians lacking imagination!

Kunzite · 12-14-2019, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Bah, you must be one of those Pentaxians lacking imagination!

Of course. I'm sure there is an innovative way of "just copy the X or Y camera!", I just can't imagine it.

guinnessman · 12-14-2019, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

That wasn't even quality but sharpening. True, Pentax responded to that by adding further sharpening levels.

The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it? They even lost that prize... to the "Yashika"!

That designation was some grade A trolling by Dpreview, and some Pentaxians bought it hook, line and sinker. They didn't dislike the camera, just weren't thrilled with the upgrade, especially the baked in NR.

And compared to what Canon, Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, etc had produced that year...it just looked very lukewarm.

I looked at it like the K3 mk II or KP - they're OK, but not something I was going to upgrade to from my K3.

**mlt** · 12-14-2019, 07:05 PM

Pentax didn’t make their list of worst lenses and cameras of 2019. Pentax didn’t make their best products either.

reh321 · 12-14-2019, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by guinnessman

They didn't dislike the camera, just weren't thrilled with the upgrade, especially the baked in NR.

”Baked In” just means “cannot be reversed”. So what - who wants to get noise back?

zapp · 12-15-2019, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Class A

How about the fact that such a feature-packed camera at a comparatively low price should keep other manufacturers more honest with respect to their pricing?

Ideally Pentax should have more market penetration for this aspect of importance to really come into effect, but nevertheless, I think the K-1 stands out as a bargain (with certain limitations, but a bargain nevertheless).

Isn't it furthermore unique with respect to offering a combination of IBIS, Pixel Shift, and OVF?
Alternatives are only available if one can stand EVFs. I can't.

I like my K1/I for the same reasons, but K5 already had the same basic features. In my opinion K5 was more unique at its time than K1 was to the world in 2016. For Pentax users K1 is what you want.

Someone should tell DPR that the decade ends end of next year. Maybe the new Apsc camera offers something unique to the world. Unique to Pentax it will be for sure.

totsmuyco · 12-15-2019, 01:30 AM - **1 Like**

In reality, how many of use all the features of our camera? I guess only a few. However, the new generation would like to have every feature in their camera. I think it's more owning a gadget that has everything in it than properly using it. Some of them don't understand their camera but the mere fact of using the brand or having the latest model is more of the deciding factor than functionality. The world is driven by consumerism.

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12-13-2019, 03:05 PM	#91
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Class A Don't know about that. What was the story regarding Pentax-specific ratings? The K10D got a "Highly Recommended (just)" because of "soft" JPEGs - the standard complaint against Pentax at that time. Ergonomics and handling were also considered so-so, not as "bad" as image quality though.

12-13-2019, 03:47 PM	#92
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Kunzite The K10D got a "Highly Recommended (just)" because of "soft" JPEGs They still obsess about JPEG quality. Not only that but about default JPEG settings! At least the K10D got a recommendation back then. The K-1 II got nothing. Zilch. Nada.

12-13-2019, 03:51 PM	#93
redmenace Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: dfw.tx.us Photos: Gallery Posts: 296	Originally posted by StiffLegged Who is DPReview? FKA photo.askey.net, founded by Phil Askey. It's changed a bit since then, I reckon.

12-14-2019, 01:14 AM	#94
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Class A They still obsess about JPEG quality. Not only that but about default JPEG settings! At least the K10D got a recommendation back then. The K-1 II got nothing. Zilch. Nada. That wasn't even quality but sharpening. True, Pentax responded to that by adding further sharpening levels. The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it? They even lost that prize... to the "Yashika"!

12-14-2019, 06:58 AM - 1 Like	#95
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Nikon Z and Canon R are too young for the list. Sony A series covers mirrorless. Leica T Model is a lame duck. D850 is important, the big step was D800. Sony A7 is major, A9 is an evolution The list is a mixture of well selling cameras as well as naming one camera per major brand, plus a lot of what some fanboy likes. In my list Pentax K1 would not appear. Important for Pentax, but not for the world.

12-14-2019, 07:06 AM	#96
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Kunzite The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it? It did. The fact that Ricoh offered K-1 owners an upgrade option to bring their K-1s up to K-1 II specs was used against the K-1 II, arguing that it can't be much of an update, if that is possible. Never mind that the update required replacing the whole PCB and that the upgrade option should have been celebrated as something other manufacturers should be picking up on, instead of being turned into a negative. They do like firmware updates, don't they? Why aren't these lame as well? I dislike this aversion against refinement to start with. The K-1 didn't need a ton of changes in order to be a great tool for the application areas it was designed for. Of course some would have liked to see faster buffer clearing, better video specs, ultimate AF, and what not, but then the camera would have ended up in a different price bracket. The point of the K-1 II design exercise was not to keep producing the K-1 and offer another distinctly better product alongside the K-1. Hard to understand why anyone could struggle that much to get to grips with that.

12-14-2019, 07:12 AM	#97
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by zapp In my list Pentax K1 would not appear. Important for Pentax, but not for the world. How about the fact that such a feature-packed camera at a comparatively low price should keep other manufacturers more honest with respect to their pricing? Ideally Pentax should have more market penetration for this aspect of importance to really come into effect, but nevertheless, I think the K-1 stands out as a bargain (with certain limitations, but a bargain nevertheless). Isn't it furthermore unique with respect to offering a combination of IBIS, Pixel Shift, and OVF? Alternatives are only available if one can stand EVFs. I can't.

12-14-2019, 07:16 AM - 1 Like	#98
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Class A The K-1 didn't need a ton of changes in order to be a great tool for the application areas it was designed for. Right. And it needed a complete overhaul to address application areas it wasn't designed for. No way it could've been done with an update.

12-14-2019, 07:40 AM	#99
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Kunzite No way it could've been done with an update. Bah, you must be one of those Pentaxians lacking imagination!

12-14-2019, 08:00 AM	#100
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Class A Bah, you must be one of those Pentaxians lacking imagination! Of course. I'm sure there is an innovative way of "just copy the X or Y camera!", I just can't imagine it.

12-14-2019, 06:49 PM	#101
guinnessman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Missoula, MT Posts: 175	Originally posted by Kunzite That wasn't even quality but sharpening. True, Pentax responded to that by adding further sharpening levels. The K-1 II got the second worst camera of the year award, didn't it? They even lost that prize... to the "Yashika"! That designation was some grade A trolling by Dpreview, and some Pentaxians bought it hook, line and sinker. They didn't dislike the camera, just weren't thrilled with the upgrade, especially the baked in NR. And compared to what Canon, Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, etc had produced that year...it just looked very lukewarm. I looked at it like the K3 mk II or KP - they're OK, but not something I was going to upgrade to from my K3.

12-14-2019, 07:05 PM	#102
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Pentax didn’t make their list of worst lenses and cameras of 2019. Pentax didn’t make their best products either.

12-14-2019, 07:25 PM	#103
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by guinnessman They didn't dislike the camera, just weren't thrilled with the upgrade, especially the baked in NR. ”Baked In” just means “cannot be reversed”. So what - who wants to get noise back?

12-15-2019, 01:11 AM	#104
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by Class A How about the fact that such a feature-packed camera at a comparatively low price should keep other manufacturers more honest with respect to their pricing? Ideally Pentax should have more market penetration for this aspect of importance to really come into effect, but nevertheless, I think the K-1 stands out as a bargain (with certain limitations, but a bargain nevertheless). Isn't it furthermore unique with respect to offering a combination of IBIS, Pixel Shift, and OVF? Alternatives are only available if one can stand EVFs. I can't. I like my K1/I for the same reasons, but K5 already had the same basic features. In my opinion K5 was more unique at its time than K1 was to the world in 2016. For Pentax users K1 is what you want. Someone should tell DPR that the decade ends end of next year. Maybe the new Apsc camera offers something unique to the world. Unique to Pentax it will be for sure.

12-15-2019, 01:30 AM - 1 Like	#105
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	In reality, how many of use all the features of our camera? I guess only a few. However, the new generation would like to have every feature in their camera. I think it's more owning a gadget that has everything in it than properly using it. Some of them don't understand their camera but the mere fact of using the brand or having the latest model is more of the deciding factor than functionality. The world is driven by consumerism.