[swanlefitte]

Is the end unit really the place to say "made money". It is one of many packages they sold other units. You could say they sold accelerator chips which is very apparent in the k1 to k1ii upgrade, but was also packaged in other models. I don't think the unit should be the paradigm for sales in this various bundling of multiple technologies bussiness. One could sell a tech in one camera at a loss to keep interest in that line and make money in another line. Has anyone heard if Pentax licences that same accelerator tech to other bussinesses? A camera is mostly a bundle of tech. Which techs make money and which techs are really there to sell the other techs? No one buy a Pentax for the shutter tech, but without it Pentax cant sell cameras. Really there is tech that advertises, it loses money and drives sales. There is infrastructure tech, needed to sell at all. There is the tech that people actually spend to buy. And the correct configurations of the tech that distinguish products. Only the last can be said to be a model like the k1.

[reh321]

I would not call these cameras 'lower' tha K-1... $6499 USD, body-only for the Canon and $2299 USD for the Nikon would not translate well in that class in the Pentax portfolio...

Almost anyone would rank a 24mp "FF" camera "below" the K-1 and a 45mp "FF" camera "above" the K-1. My point was that people keep talking about "replacing" the K-1. I believe, instead, that Pentax may bracket the K-1 with two cameras, a 24mp "FF" as entry level "below" and a new 45mp "FF" as flagship "above". The relevance of the Nikon D780 is that they believe that a 24mp "FF" is still feasible

[MMVIII]

Almost anyone would rank a 24mp "FF" camera "below" the K-1 and a 45mp "FF" camera "above" the K-1. My point was that people keep talking about "replacing" the K-1. I believe, instead, that Pentax may bracket the K-1 with two cameras, a 24mp "FF" as entry level "below" and a new 45mp "FF" as flagship "above". The relevance of the Nikon D780 is that they believe that a 24mp "FF" is still feasible

*cogh* no, I don't think so.

[Kunzite]

I really don't think Pentax will make a 24MP "entry level" FF - that means abandoning the approach allowing the K-1 to work, in order to compete directly with Canikon.
IMO they could make a "K-1 new" - new sensor, all improvements from K-new - and sell the K-1 II for a while as the more affordable option.

[WorksAsIntended]

No one buy a Pentax for the shutter tech, but without it Pentax cant sell cameras.

I think, if Pentax would manage a somehow better shutter than the rest, it would be a selling factor too.

For example lower black times (and therefore higher fps or more af time between shot) and faster speeds are indeed selling factors for the Nikon Dx or Canon 1D Mx.

The other way around of course works too, bad ahutter would mean less customers.
The Nikon D750 for example only allows 1/4000, which sometimes would be a limiting factor for me, so I never considered it.

I agree on the general point you made though.

[reh321]

I really don't think Pentax will make a 24MP "entry level" FF - that means abandoning the approach allowing the K-1 to work, in order to compete directly with Canikon.
IMO they could make a "K-1 new" - new sensor, all improvements from K-new - and sell the K-1 II for a while as the more affordable option.

My point is that Nikon has proven that a 24mp "FF" camera may be just the right place to build a camera which has very good high ISO performance. If Pentax would build this kind of camera, it could sell as well as the top, while at the same time vectoring users to the "higher" camera and serving as the camera for us old-times that allow optimal use of old film prime lenses. This is entirely a Pentax thing - it is not competing with anyone, but takes advantage of their wealth in old lenses highlighted on the last day of Advent while increasing the demand for new lenses. This could be a win-win for the Brand.

[reh321]

Is the end unit really the place to say "made money".

No, many issues are involved in "making money"- one of them being reputation of the brand. I know a guy who recently purchased a Nikon MILC, trading in his several year old D5600. I'm sure Nikon made some sort of profit on the deal which happened because he has a good image of Nikon in his mind.

When I purchased my first Pentax SLR in 1979, Roberts didn't have to do much selling, because Pentax was a prominent brand back then. Asahi had worked to build up their reputation; folklore says they lost money on every eight-element 50mm lens they sold - but it contributed to building up the brand. Unfortunately the brand lost that prominence during the change-overs to auto-focus and to digital.

[Kunzite]

My point is that Nikon has proven that a 24mp "FF" camera may be just the right place to build a camera which has very good high ISO performance. If Pentax would build this kind of camera, it could sell as well as the top, while at the same time vectoring users to the "higher" camera and serving as the camera for us old-times that allow optimal use of old film prime lenses. This is entirely a Pentax thing - it is not competing with anyone, but takes advantage of their wealth in old lenses highlighted on the last day of Advent while increasing the demand for new lenses. This could be a win-win for the Brand.

The K-1 II has very good high ISO performance; the issue you want solved doesn't really exists.
See: Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
A new camera with a new sensor should be even better.

Also, the D750 is far from "at the top" in Nikon's range, excepting the D5/D6 that place belongs to the D850 - a high resolution camera. I see no reason to believe things would be different for Pentax.
IMO Pentax should keep the K-1 recipe, but improve the performance (besides updating, well, everything).

[reh321]

The K-1 II has very good high ISO performance; the issue you want solved doesn't really exists.
See: Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
A new camera with a new sensor should be even better.

You can never have good enough ISO performance. My KP is wonderful, but it could always be better.

Also, the D750 is far from "at the top" in Nikon's range, excepting the D5/D6 that place belongs to the D850 - a high resolution camera. I see no reason to believe things would be different for Pentax.
IMO Pentax should keep the K-1 recipe, but improve the performance (besides updating, well, everything).

That is my very point. Among the currently-available Nikon offerings, the D750 is at the bottom of "FF DSLR" offerings, but Nikon replaces at bottom as well as top; likewise Pentax can build below as well as above {by improving} the K-1

[Kunzite]

That is my very point. Among the currently-available Nikon offerings, the D750 is at the bottom of "FF DSLR" offerings, but Nikon replaces at bottom as well as top; likewise Pentax can build below as well as above {by improving} the K-1

Oh, so you're talking about 2 FF cameras?

[reh321]

Oh, so you're talking about 2 FF cameras?

Yes, Yes, Yes.

I am talking about the possibility of Pentax's moving more to full frame and making better use of their wealth of existing K-mount lenses.

[Kunzite]

Yes, Yes, Yes.

I am talking about the possibility of Pentax's moving more to full frame and making better use of their wealth of existing K-mount lenses.

That's something completely different... than what I understood

I still believe "repeating" the K-1 is their best option. If the "K-1 new" would be significantly more expensive, then they might add a less expensive option later (keeping the K-1 II until then).

In the end, what I want is a "K-1 new" with added performance. My "less expensive" option is to keep using my K-1 II
As for others, an entry level FF won't be cheaper than a discounted K-1/K-1 II...

[Pål Jensen]

Pentax doesn't have the market size for several FF models. The 24mp bracket is covered by APS for Pentax. Nikon and Canon basically made DSLR's for a huge FF lens line-up. Pentax discontinued most of theirs and replaced them with APS lenses...

[biz-engineer]

In the end, what I want is a "K-1 new" with added performance.

The K1 design is just fine. I would have seen the K1 II , not necessarily with the accelerator chip but with an UHS-II controller and dual or even I wouldn't mind a single SD card slot because I don't use SD2. An UHS-II controller just for shortening the buffer to card write time. I know that speeding up the whole image processing chain is what was discussed here in that forum, by that'd basically be a new camera (faster sensor etc) , not a mark II or mark III. Not being an expect , but upgrading from UHS-I to UHS-II controler doesn't seem a huge task, almost every other camera brand now have UHS-II slots in their cameras.

[reh321]

Pentax doesn't have the market size for several FF models. The 24mp bracket is covered by APS for Pentax. Nikon and Canon basically made DSLR's for a huge FF lens line-up. Pentax discontinued most of theirs and replaced them with APS lenses...

Pentax 'discontinued' them, but "glass is forever" - Ricoh acknowledged on Decermber 24 the wealth they inherited in 'old glass' out there. Certain of us are not interested in high-priced full frame cameras, and Ricoh seems uninterested in following the Sony route of selling 'outdated' cameras. They will find out if they have a market for lesser priced cameras only by trying.