[BigMackCam]

But then... wait.. you got... the wooden KP grip version even later!! Check and dbl mate!!

Nice. Sneaky, but... nice.

Look, can't we just join forces and gang up on the GRIII folks?

Of course, right after that priority turf war, we're all at risk from the 645Z crew... They've got beef with everyone, last I heard.

These are mean streets...

[BruceBanner]

Nice. Sneaky, but... nice.

Look, can't we just join forces and gang up on the GRIII folks?

Of course, right after that priority turf war, we're all at risk from the 645Z crew... They've got beef with everyone, last I heard.

These are mean streets...

Bahaha

Agreed!

[Kunzite]

Nice. Sneaky, but... nice.

Look, can't we just join forces and gang up on the GRIII folks?

Of course, right after that priority turf war, we're all at risk from the 645Z crew... They've got beef with everyone, last I heard.

These are mean streets...

Back in the day, the 67 crowd referred to the 645 shooters as the Sisterhood.

[reh321]

Nice. Sneaky, but... nice.

Look, can't we just join forces and gang up on the GRIII folks?

I have stated here, off and on for a year, that that I believe the GRRRR delayed the "K-3ii replacement", but even I have to admit it gave Ricoh a cash infusion.

[BruceBanner]

I have stated here, off and on for a year, that that I believe the GRRRR delayed the "K-3ii replacement", but even I have to admit it gave Ricoh a cash infusion.

I'm impressed by the GRIII. I would actually entertain the idea of replacing my KP with a GRIII and then getting the new crop sensor body when it comes out later this year.

[Rondec]

Nice. Sneaky, but... nice.

Look, can't we just join forces and gang up on the GRIII folks?

Of course, right after that priority turf war, we're all at risk from the 645Z crew... They've got beef with everyone, last I heard.

These are mean streets...

I guess I remember the days when the entry level Pentax cameras were replaced every 18 months and the flagships were replaced every couple years. Obviously things have slowed a bunch, but it sure seems like all of the K mount cameras except maybe the KP are due for a refresh. As Bruce says, the K-1 II really isn't a "new" camera. It's basically a K-1 with fairly minor tweaks.

That isn't to say that I expect a full frame camera this year, but just that I feel as though we are due for it and it could share a lot of DNA with the K-new that should be coming out some time in 2020.

[reh321]

I guess I remember the days when the entry level Pentax cameras were replaced every 18 months and the flagships were replaced every couple years. Obviously things have slowed a bunch, but it sure seems like all of the K mount cameras except maybe the KP are due for a refresh. As Bruce says, the K-1 II really isn't a "new" camera. It's basically a K-1 with fairly minor tweaks.

That isn't to say that I expect a full frame camera this year, but just that I feel as though we are due for it and it could share a lot of DNA with the K-new that should be coming out some time in 2020.

Pentax should develop a new camera when they have new technology, but no often. The only place I can question Pentax decision-making is the incredibly long time with nothing on the K-3 shelf.

A new kitten moved in here yesterday, taking the position vacated by senior cat Velcro when she died last week. I tend not to use flash with my KP, so first I used my K-30 as I followed her around yesterday - but I took zero usable pictures and had to switch to my Q-7 to take a few photos to send to our daughters - AF on the K-30 is so bad in marginal circumstances compared to the KP!

[biz-engineer]

Pentax should develop a new camera when they have new technology

When I downsize a K1 36Mp image to 24Mp and compare side by side, the difference is almost impossible to tell. But what we gain with 24Mp is more FPS, more buffer depth and better video. There isn't enough of a difference between 36Mp and 24Mp to justify the 4 FPS and 10 RAW buffer on a K1. That said, the K1 is very good: great IQ, IBIS and great price. But the specs in 2020, are more like 24Mp FF or more like 45 - 50Mp for the high res. models. 36Mp is stuck in the middle, neither fast nor really high resolution compared to 24Mp. Ricoh couid have done a K1 mk II with a 24Mp sensor, 4K video cap. and UHS-II to make it a better rounded camera like the D780 but for K mount glass.

[Belnan]

When I downsize a K1 36Mp image to 24Mp and compare side by side, the difference is almost impossible to tell. But what we gain with 24Mp is more FPS, more buffer depth and better video. There isn't enough of a difference between 36Mp and 24Mp to justify the 4 FPS and 10 RAW buffer on a K1. That said, the K1 is very good: great IQ, IBIS and great price. But the specs in 2020, are more like 24Mp FF or more like 45 - 50Mp for the high res. models. 36Mp is stuck in the middle, neither fast nor really high resolution compared to 24Mp. Ricoh couid have done a K1 mk II with a 24Mp sensor, 4K video cap. and UHS-II to make it a better rounded camera like the D780 but for K mount glass.

Sony has a high speed 36MP FF sensor, perhaps the K-1 III will use it. More likely they will go with a higher MP sensor but who knows.

[Wheatfield]

We are going really far afield.

I would say that I got plenty of nicely sharp portraits with 24 megapixel (K3) APS-C camera. The same lenses (DA *55, FA 31. 77) are better on 36 megapixel full frame. Beyond which, the whole point is to frame your image so that you don't have to do a bunch of cropping. If I shot something with the FA 31 on my K3, I will use my DA *55 on my K-1. And honestly, edge sharpness isn't key for most portraiture anyway and if I need edge sharpness, it is a simple matter to stop down to f5.6 or f8 where it will be there.

Anyway, portraits are typically printed at what? 8 by 10? How much sharpness do you need from your lens to produce that size print?

How much sharpness do you need in a portrait?
My experience (I was primarily a portrait shooter for 4 decades) has been that people like somewhat softer renditions of themselves more than sharper ones. At one time a large section of the filter industry was devoted to taking sharp lenses and turning them into soft ones for use in portraiture.
The method has now changed. We now use software in place of Softars, but the end result is still taking sharp lenses and turning them into soft ones.

---------- Post added Jan 16th, 2020 at 11:03 AM ----------

Then it should be included in the post - we cannot be expected to draw the important lines.

Yeah, I just blocked a user who, in this thread, doesn't seem to understand that a reply to without context is useless.

---------- Post added Jan 16th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ----------

Back in the day, the 67 crowd referred to the 645 shooters as the Sisterhood.

I don't remember if I was the first person to use the term "brotherhood" for 6x7 users over on PDML or if it was Dave from Ontario.

[Kunzite]

I don't remember if I was the first person to use the term "brotherhood" for 6x7 users over on PDML or if it was Dave from Ontario.

I'm just a lurker there - subscribed and occasionally read the messages - great community.
Not that this one is bad.

[Wheatfield]

I'm just a lurker there - subscribed and occasionally read the messages - great community.
Not that this one is bad.

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was Scott Loveless who coined the term. I need to get a life, I just took 10 minutes to peruse the PDML archives for an answer. It appears the term was coined by him sometime in either 2001 or 2002.
And yes, it is a great community. I discovered it in 1998 IIRC.

[BigMackCam]

When I downsize a K1 36Mp image to 24Mp and compare side by side, the difference is almost impossible to tell.

With respect, that's rather vague... What's the source of the 24MP image you're comparing to? Another full frame camera using exactly the same lens, pointed at the same subject from the same distance, in exactly the same shooting conditions and using the same camera settings? Or are there any variables to muddy the comparison such as different sensor sizes, different lenses...?

But, assuming you're comparing two images where the only variable is sensor resolution, how about when you upsize the 24MP image to 36MP and compare side by side at 100%? Is it still almost impossible to tell the difference?

But what we gain with 24Mp is more FPS, more buffer depth and better video. There isn't enough of a difference between 36Mp and 24Mp to justify the 4 FPS and 10 RAW buffer on a K1. That said, the K1 is very good: great IQ, IBIS and great price.

See above. That aside, whether the 36MP is justifiable to the end user is going to depend on that individual's use case. In your case, it seems like 36MP isn't justified, and that's fine... but not everyone will have the same criteria as you.

But the specs in 2020, are more like 24Mp FF or more like 45 - 50Mp for the high res. models. 36Mp is stuck in the middle, neither fast nor really high resolution compared to 24Mp. Ricoh couid have done a K1 mk II with a 24Mp sensor, 4K video cap. and UHS-II to make it a better rounded camera like the D780 but for K mount glass.

The K-1 is an early 2016 model which drew on earlier development, and the K-1II is a late 2017 refresh of the same underlying camera. That the latter is sold as a "current" model is a reflection of realistic product life-span in the current market. If Ricoh was releasing a newly-developed full frame model this year, who knows what the specifications would be? We can only guess...

[MMVIII]

With respect, that's rather vague... What's the source of the 24MP image you're comparing to? Another full frame camera using exactly the same lens, pointed at the same subject from the same distance, in exactly the same shooting conditions and using the same camera settings? Or are there any variables to muddy the comparison such as different sensor sizes, different lenses...?

But, assuming you're comparing two images where the only variable is sensor resolution, how about when you upsize the 24MP image to 36MP and compare side by side at 100%? Is it still almost impossible to tell the difference?



See above. That aside, whether the 36MP is justifiable to the end user is going to depend on that individual's use case. In your case, it seems like 36MP isn't justified, and that's fine... but not everyone will have the same criteria as you.



The K-1 is an early 2016 model which drew on earlier development, and the K-1II is a late 2017 refresh of the same underlying camera. That the latter is sold as a "current" model is a reflection of realistic product life-span in the current market. If Ricoh was releasing a newly-developed full frame model this year, who knows what the specifications would be? We can only guess...

Wait, I understood biz-engineer replying to the call for "24Mp-sensor advantages" in a new to develop FF camera. Some here hoped for it being cheaper, some pointed to a low-light advantage. Both might not be true. I agree with him, if you use the now existing 36Mp sensor and downsample it to 24Mp I highly doubt that there would be a noise advantage for the 24Mp sensor. And you simply loose some resolution of the scene. Not arguing about speed and memory here.

[Rondec]

When I downsize a K1 36Mp image to 24Mp and compare side by side, the difference is almost impossible to tell. But what we gain with 24Mp is more FPS, more buffer depth and better video. There isn't enough of a difference between 36Mp and 24Mp to justify the 4 FPS and 10 RAW buffer on a K1. That said, the K1 is very good: great IQ, IBIS and great price. But the specs in 2020, are more like 24Mp FF or more like 45 - 50Mp for the high res. models. 36Mp is stuck in the middle, neither fast nor really high resolution compared to 24Mp. Ricoh couid have done a K1 mk II with a 24Mp sensor, 4K video cap. and UHS-II to make it a better rounded camera like the D780 but for K mount glass.

The K-1 II was a basic refresh of the K-1. Putting a new sensor in the camera would have changed that project and made it impossible to happen. I suppose Pentax could have put the D750 sensor in there and gotten 6.5 fps with a bigger buffer, but that would have been a much more major project and was not in the cards at the time. Of course, without changing memory cards, it would still take as long for the buffer to clear once it was full. As far as better video goes, there are a bunch of sensors out now that do better video than the one in the K-1, but they weren't available when the K-1 was released.

What you are saying is that you want Pentax to release a new full frame camera with more modern specs. I think this is a reasonable request, regardless of what sensor they choose, but probably won't happen before the beginning of next year. As far as how many megapixels for the next generation camera, I don't think it really matters. Buffer size and frame rates are bound to go up considerably and I can deal with 6 to 7-ish fps without a problem.