HD Pentax-D FA 70-210mm f/4 ED SDM WR

MMVIII · 01-21-2020, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

...
Well, Tamron manufactures in Japan. I think the point is that this is not a situation where Pentax licensed an optical formula and built the lens themselves, but rather where they sat down with Tamron and had them build this lens to Pentax's specifications. The DFA 24-70 and 15-30 also say made in Japan.

But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam:
Tamron 70-210 mm f/4 Di VC USD review - Build quality and image stabilization - LensTip.com

biz-engineer · 01-21-2020, 06:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MMVIII

But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam

? So that could mean that the orginal lens was a Pentax and Tamron copied it. Damn! Tamron customers should complain that the lens is not a real Tamron, but actually a Pentax

Pentax figured out a backdoor way to Canikon market via selling a Pentax lens through Tamron to Canon and Nikon users who think the lens is made by Tamron. Wow. But it's not, Tamron removed the Pentax coatings and added the VC

**BigMackCam** · 01-21-2020, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam:
Tamron 70-210 mm f/4 Di VC USD review - Build quality and image stabilization - LensTip.com

Interesting... I wonder if Tamron and Pentax are sharing some manufacturing facilities? That could make sound financial sense...

BarneyL · 01-21-2020, 06:18 AM - **3 Likes**

Tamron has factories in Japan, Vietnam and China.
TAMRON?Tamron's 'Monozukuri' | An Inspiring Visit to a Plant Overseas

WorksAsIntended · 01-21-2020, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

? So that could mean that the orginal lens was a Pentax and Tamron copied it. Damn! Tamron customers should complain that the lens is not a real Tamron, but actually a Pentax

Pentax figured out a backdoor way to Canikon market via selling a Pentax lens through Tamron to Canon and Nikon users who think the lens is made by Tamron. Wow. But it's not, Tamron removed the Pentax coatings and added the VC

Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people.

**BigMackCam** · 01-21-2020, 06:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by WorksAsIntended

Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people.

They'll get over it once the price settles. Or not, as the case may be. But the price will find its optimal level based at least partially on demand...

**Larrymc** · 01-21-2020, 06:27 AM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by Riddler

Too expensive

It's only too expensive if you are planning to buy one soon.

So if you aren't planning to buy one soon its not too expensive.

biz-engineer · 01-21-2020, 06:30 AM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by WorksAsIntended

Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people.

Well, if there was no price difference between the Tamron lens and the Pentax lens, Tamron wouldn't make the K mount version, so is it better to have a lens tweaked by Ricoh with Pentax attibute and the price Canikon charge for the equivalent lens, or have no 70-200 f4 lens with a K bayonet mount?

---------- Post added 21-01-20 at 14:35 ----------

There is a thing that make us and businesses and all kind of organizations completely short sighted: the lack of seeing how all things are interrelated. For instance, every company would ideal want employees to be as cheap as possible, but in the end who buy the product and with what money? So ideally you want not to pay you employees well , but you want the well paid employees of other companies to buy your products.... Basically, if you don't buy anything , how do you hope to have a job and receive money from your employer? Oh wait , I see... everyone wants someone else to take a loss so that everyone wants to get more for less. Someone said , it's the "expediency factor": people want to have everything for free, with no effort, and all this immediately. So Tamron set the lower price point, so Pentax should align to the same as Tamron prices, even when Canon and Nikon charge double for a product that does the exact same thing. Ideal , I'd like Ricoh to give me that lens for free, and charge other customers more to pay for my free lens

WorksAsIntended · 01-21-2020, 06:55 AM

Its not that I do not understand those mechanics, still somebody with free camera choice will take this into consideration and it is only natural that people waiting months for the release are upset with this.

If it was a completly different lens, even if not better, less people would argue that its cheaper for other cameras.

I do not blame Pentax for this decission at all, in the end their hands are cuffed in the current market position.

Kunzite · 01-21-2020, 06:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Oh wait , I see... everyone wants someone else to take a loss so that everyone wants to get more for less.

Spot on.

**ffking** · 01-21-2020, 07:06 AM

I as just looking at the price of the 70-200/2,8 in the UK - it as launched at £1,850, I think - since then the price has been up over £2,000 and available on offer for as little as about £1,350 - at the moment it's a little under £1,700 - but seriously, there hasn't been an obvious trend...

The 24-70 started here at £1,100, I think, and at the moment it's £800 on offer at srs, but still £1,100 or more elsewhere - again, it's been both above and below that figure in the interim.

For whatever reasons - some to do with sales, some to do with exchange rates, no doubt - the prices haven't really fallen...

**BigMackCam** · 01-21-2020, 07:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by WorksAsIntended

Its not that I do not understand those mechanics, still somebody with free camera choice will take this into consideration and it is only natural that people waiting months for the release are upset with this.

If it was a completly different lens, even if not better, less people would argue that its cheaper for other cameras.

I do not blame Pentax for this decission at all, in the end their hands are cuffed in the current market position.

I'll admit to being a little pedantic here, but I'd say folks being "upset" is over-stating it - or if they're truly upset, my how fortunate they are to be troubled by such a first world problem. Do they wish the lens was cheaper? Sure. We all do... As @biz-engineer indicated, we'd all like the lens for peanuts, or free

That's obviously not going to happen... but, In time, it will find its natural price level based on supply and demand. Until then, those who really need or have a burning desire to own the lens will pay the premium launch price, and that's good for Ricoh.

sundown · 01-21-2020, 07:19 AM - **1 Like**

Meanwhile, I've been looking at photographs in Flickr from the Tamron lens, very sharp - that's nice

. I wonder, what if Pentax improved on that

?

**BigMackCam** · 01-21-2020, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by ffking

I as just looking at the price of the 70-200/2,8 in the UK - it as launched at £1,850, I think - since then the price has been up over £2,000 and available on offer for as little as about £1,350 - at the moment it's a little under £1,700 - but seriously, there hasn't been an obvious trend...

The 24-70 started here at £1,100, I think, and at the moment it's £800 on offer at srs, but still £1,100 or more elsewhere - again, it's been both above and below that figure in the interim.

For whatever reasons - some to do with sales, some to do with exchange rates, no doubt - the prices haven't really fallen...

I've noticed that too. It seems like the strategy is to keep the price relatively constant, where few folks will buy, then periodically and briefly discount it (often at specific suppliers only) far enough that many are drawn in by the amazing bargain. That sales tactic has worked on me on quite a few occasions over the years. I've even bought equipment I wasn't specifically looking to acquire simply because it was such a great deal

aurele · 01-21-2020, 07:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I've noticed that too. It seems like the strategy is to keep the price relatively constant, where few folks will buy, then periodically and briefly discount it (often at specific suppliers only) far enough that many are drawn in by the amazing bargain. That sales tactic has worked on me on quite a few occasions over the years. I've even bought equipment I wasn't specifically looking to acquire simply because it was such a great deal

Customers are more suceptible to pay for goods wich price remain constant over time. Otherwise, we all wait for price to lower before buying, and even then we think "it's old, something new might come up" and we end up never buying it new.

01-21-2020, 06:30 AM - 5 Likes	#188
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by WorksAsIntended Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people. Well, if there was no price difference between the Tamron lens and the Pentax lens, Tamron wouldn't make the K mount version, so is it better to have a lens tweaked by Ricoh with Pentax attibute and the price Canikon charge for the equivalent lens, or have no 70-200 f4 lens with a K bayonet mount? ---------- Post added 21-01-20 at 14:35 ---------- There is a thing that make us and businesses and all kind of organizations completely short sighted: the lack of seeing how all things are interrelated. For instance, every company would ideal want employees to be as cheap as possible, but in the end who buy the product and with what money? So ideally you want not to pay you employees well , but you want the well paid employees of other companies to buy your products.... Basically, if you don't buy anything , how do you hope to have a job and receive money from your employer? Oh wait , I see... everyone wants someone else to take a loss so that everyone wants to get more for less. Someone said , it's the "expediency factor": people want to have everything for free, with no effort, and all this immediately. So Tamron set the lower price point, so Pentax should align to the same as Tamron prices, even when Canon and Nikon charge double for a product that does the exact same thing. Ideal , I'd like Ricoh to give me that lens for free, and charge other customers more to pay for my free lens Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-21-2020 at 06:42 AM.

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01-21-2020, 05:51 AM	#181
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	Originally posted by Rondec ... Well, Tamron manufactures in Japan. I think the point is that this is not a situation where Pentax licensed an optical formula and built the lens themselves, but rather where they sat down with Tamron and had them build this lens to Pentax's specifications. The DFA 24-70 and 15-30 also say made in Japan. But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam: Tamron 70-210 mm f/4 Di VC USD review - Build quality and image stabilization - LensTip.com

01-21-2020, 06:11 AM - 1 Like	#182
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by MMVIII But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam ? So that could mean that the orginal lens was a Pentax and Tamron copied it. Damn! Tamron customers should complain that the lens is not a real Tamron, but actually a Pentax Pentax figured out a backdoor way to Canikon market via selling a Pentax lens through Tamron to Canon and Nikon users who think the lens is made by Tamron. Wow. But it's not, Tamron removed the Pentax coatings and added the VC

01-21-2020, 06:15 AM	#183
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by MMVIII But the Tamron 70-2010 f/4 Di VC USD is made in Vietnam: Tamron 70-210 mm f/4 Di VC USD review - Build quality and image stabilization - LensTip.com Interesting... I wonder if Tamron and Pentax are sharing some manufacturing facilities? That could make sound financial sense...

01-21-2020, 06:18 AM - 3 Likes	#184
BarneyL Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 899	Tamron has factories in Japan, Vietnam and China. TAMRON?Tamron's 'Monozukuri' \| An Inspiring Visit to a Plant Overseas

01-21-2020, 06:19 AM	#185
WorksAsIntended Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 639	Originally posted by biz-engineer ? So that could mean that the orginal lens was a Pentax and Tamron copied it. Damn! Tamron customers should complain that the lens is not a real Tamron, but actually a Pentax Pentax figured out a backdoor way to Canikon market via selling a Pentax lens through Tamron to Canon and Nikon users who think the lens is made by Tamron. Wow. But it's not, Tamron removed the Pentax coatings and added the VC Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people.

01-21-2020, 06:22 AM - 1 Like	#186
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by WorksAsIntended Well, it is not about the fact the lens was build by somebody else but the fact it comes with a price premium after rebranding that upsets people. They'll get over it once the price settles. Or not, as the case may be. But the price will find its optimal level based at least partially on demand...

01-21-2020, 06:27 AM - 4 Likes	#187
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by Riddler Too expensive It's only too expensive if you are planning to buy one soon. So if you aren't planning to buy one soon its not too expensive.

01-21-2020, 06:55 AM	#189
WorksAsIntended Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 639	Its not that I do not understand those mechanics, still somebody with free camera choice will take this into consideration and it is only natural that people waiting months for the release are upset with this. If it was a completly different lens, even if not better, less people would argue that its cheaper for other cameras. I do not blame Pentax for this decission at all, in the end their hands are cuffed in the current market position.

01-21-2020, 06:58 AM - 1 Like	#190
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by biz-engineer Oh wait , I see... everyone wants someone else to take a loss so that everyone wants to get more for less. Spot on.

01-21-2020, 07:06 AM	#191
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	I as just looking at the price of the 70-200/2,8 in the UK - it as launched at £1,850, I think - since then the price has been up over £2,000 and available on offer for as little as about £1,350 - at the moment it's a little under £1,700 - but seriously, there hasn't been an obvious trend... The 24-70 started here at £1,100, I think, and at the moment it's £800 on offer at srs, but still £1,100 or more elsewhere - again, it's been both above and below that figure in the interim. For whatever reasons - some to do with sales, some to do with exchange rates, no doubt - the prices haven't really fallen...

01-21-2020, 07:15 AM - 1 Like	#192
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by WorksAsIntended Its not that I do not understand those mechanics, still somebody with free camera choice will take this into consideration and it is only natural that people waiting months for the release are upset with this. If it was a completly different lens, even if not better, less people would argue that its cheaper for other cameras. I do not blame Pentax for this decission at all, in the end their hands are cuffed in the current market position. I'll admit to being a little pedantic here, but I'd say folks being "upset" is over-stating it - or if they're truly upset, my how fortunate they are to be troubled by such a first world problem. Do they wish the lens was cheaper? Sure. We all do... As @biz-engineer indicated, we'd all like the lens for peanuts, or free That's obviously not going to happen... but, In time, it will find its natural price level based on supply and demand. Until then, those who really need or have a burning desire to own the lens will pay the premium launch price, and that's good for Ricoh.

01-21-2020, 07:19 AM - 1 Like	#193
sundown Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 588	Meanwhile, I've been looking at photographs in Flickr from the Tamron lens, very sharp - that's nice . I wonder, what if Pentax improved on that ?

01-21-2020, 07:29 AM	#194
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by ffking I as just looking at the price of the 70-200/2,8 in the UK - it as launched at £1,850, I think - since then the price has been up over £2,000 and available on offer for as little as about £1,350 - at the moment it's a little under £1,700 - but seriously, there hasn't been an obvious trend... The 24-70 started here at £1,100, I think, and at the moment it's £800 on offer at srs, but still £1,100 or more elsewhere - again, it's been both above and below that figure in the interim. For whatever reasons - some to do with sales, some to do with exchange rates, no doubt - the prices haven't really fallen... I've noticed that too. It seems like the strategy is to keep the price relatively constant, where few folks will buy, then periodically and briefly discount it (often at specific suppliers only) far enough that many are drawn in by the amazing bargain. That sales tactic has worked on me on quite a few occasions over the years. I've even bought equipment I wasn't specifically looking to acquire simply because it was such a great deal

01-21-2020, 07:36 AM - 1 Like	#195
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by BigMackCam I've noticed that too. It seems like the strategy is to keep the price relatively constant, where few folks will buy, then periodically and briefly discount it (often at specific suppliers only) far enough that many are drawn in by the amazing bargain. That sales tactic has worked on me on quite a few occasions over the years. I've even bought equipment I wasn't specifically looking to acquire simply because it was such a great deal Customers are more suceptible to pay for goods wich price remain constant over time. Otherwise, we all wait for price to lower before buying, and even then we think "it's old, something new might come up" and we end up never buying it new.