Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-02-2020, 07:06 AM - 4 Likes   #136
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
"You basically just said that I wasn't very smart for investing in Pentax because of a capability that I didn't know I'd need years later."

Yas, exactly what I said. You say it like there's something wrong with that.

That coupled with your belief that you'd be happy with the first camera you bought as you and your demands grew photographically. I started playing tennis with wooden rackets, in the end I was using carbon fibre rackets. I never in my wildest dreams considered that I'd never want better rackets as I became a better player. The rackets I ended up with I wouldn't have been able to keep the ball on the court with when I started out. In cameras I went from 120, to 8x10 and 4x5 film in school to 35mm, to 645 to APS-c. The reasons why there are lots of different cameras is because there are lots of different people with lots of different needs.

I currently own 6 cameras in 4 different formats and 3 different companies, and my wife owns 2. Each for a different use. How did you get sold on this idea that you're going to buy one camera and it was going to do every thing you wanted? In my experience it comes down to every time you find something new you want to do, you might need a new camera.

When I was in school, we asked my commercial studio instructor, an accomplished commercial photographer, what his favourite camera was. He said "one of those throw away cardboard ones you can just leave in your glove box. Those parabolic plastic lenses are better than you think and many times having the camera with you is more important than what kind of camera it is." So there ya go. Expert photographer likes really cheap camera anyone can buy. The point being, you can spend thousands of dollars on the best equipment, and end up liking a camera you paid 5 dollars for at the drugstore. So, if I was to comment on your K-30, I'd say, it got you started, it doesn't owe you anything. Now you have a much better idea what you might want next.

The large portion of my shooting has always been on canoe trips. I've had tough waterproof film cameras sine the 80s and still have one in the closet. But the digitals all have very small sensors, so I bought a Lumix ZS100, still small enough for easy access but 4 times the sensor for better dynamic range. When I went for the K-5 to the K-3 for extra resolution and crop room and bigger buffer and faster frame rate for birds, I missed the dynamic range of the K-5 and lack of crop room for sunsets and landscapes. Hence the K-1.

This notion you have that you should buy one camera and it should do everything you need forever is kind of warped. Especially since most people would be silly to buy a really expensive camera as a first camera since they may not get into photography and it may be mainly taking up shelf space.

So, Ill give you a bit of advice. SInce you'r obviously pretty young, if you want the camera that will do everything for you, you need a Nikon D850. Faster FPS than a K-3, bigger buffer, great AF, a file size that should be considered good for years. The only downside being it will be big and heavy... but you're young so that shouldn't be too much of a factor. And honestly, you could buy it as the perfect camera, and decide "this is to much weight and size I'm selling it and getting a good point and shoot."

There is no perfect camera that's right for everyone. Pentax knows that. They make what they make and it's right for 5% of the population. That's all you need to know. Your decision is "am I part of that 5%?"

It would appear that for 95% of the population,"not Pentax" is the answer. That make absolutely no difference at all for those of us for who it is. It's irrelevant. We don't need to hear your angst. Just move on and get what you need. It took me purchasing 3 different brands to get everything I need. There's nothing wrong with that. Just quit whining and save for what you need. Or if that isn't possible, learn to live with what you have. MY first wildlife shots were taken with an SV and a 150mm lens, I have moose images taken with a Mamiya 645 and 75mm lens. You do the best you can with what you've got. My current kit is all purchased in the last 10 years. I lived 80% of my life with a basic camera and 2 lenses.

Often when I go out I'm shooting with $3000 worth of gear, and the guy next to me is shooting with $20,000 worth of gear, and I still get pictures that I enjoy and have a good time. Why do I care if it could be easier with better AF or a monster lens or whatever? I have what's appropriate for me.

I get so tired of people with way more capability than I ever had whining about what Pentax has to do for their photographic needs. You do the best you can with what you have and don't complain.. if you're smart. Complaining detracts from your life and adds nothing.


Last edited by normhead; 05-02-2020 at 07:52 AM.
05-02-2020, 07:56 AM - 3 Likes   #137
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
c.a.m's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,171
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
One of the reasons I gave him for my reduced involvement was, and I quote precisely, "I'm weary of trying to re-balance brand-negative posts and threads". I still feel that way.
Thanks for your thoughtful post, @BigMackCam.

I can imagine that the Moderators are faced with a difficult job -- monitoring a high volume of daily posts while trying to steer a good balance. That Pentax Forums is such a predominantly-positive, constructive, and friendly place is a testament to the attention and skill of the moderators and the maturity of the members.

Personally, I find that there are very few posts that are trolling, ranting, or venting. Maybe a couple a week, or fewer. I think that critical posts are just fine, as long as they have a reasonable basis and are presented thoughtfully and constructively. It's the 'one-line snipers' that might tend to skew the impression of a constant stream of negativity. These types of posts are in the very small minority, but they receive attention nonetheless. Fortunately, they tend to dissipate when the poster is addressed with objective questions or requests for more insight or detail, which, of course, they typically ignore.

As mentioned by others, ranting and venting -- or trolling -- might be a universal characteristic of online discussions. Almost every site I've read has its share, but it's fairly easy to just ignore the naysayers or roll my eyes virtually. Even in in-person physical settings, personal or professional, there often seems to be someone who is continuously negative or destructive. I encountered such a person in a professional context some years ago in an international committee I was charing; I finally had to approach the guy offline and say tactfully that he was "not being at all helpful to the group." He got the message and eventually became a respected and trusted member of the committee.

Concerning the potential negative affect on external readers of the sniping, snarking, harping, or ranting, I'm not sure whether this is a significant detriment to prospective Pentax buyers/users. Certainly, there are other sites and blogs that seem to portray much more negativity against the Pentax brand and specific Pentax cameras or lenses. For the most part, Pentax Forums is a bastion of positive and useful information -- especially for those who are ambitious enough to do their research. Still, I'd certainly agree that such posts here at PF are neither constructive nor even neutral.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 05-02-2020 at 11:49 AM.
05-02-2020, 08:10 AM - 1 Like   #138
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Mikesul's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 7,584
One solution would be for the rest of us to just not respond to offensive posts. The responses to "Rixoh/Pentax is...." posts are as repetitive and uninteresting as the provocative posts they hope to correct.
05-02-2020, 08:21 AM - 3 Likes   #139
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
One solution would be for the rest of us to just not respond to offensive posts. The responses to "Rixoh/Pentax is...." posts are as repetitive and uninteresting as the provocative posts they hope to correct.
We offer people different ways of thinking about a topic. Maybe we should allow more people the power to auto-delete offensive posts. I see no benefit to ceding the stage to the un-informed and obnoxious.

We might even get back some of the accomplished professionals who don't come here because they don't want to have to deal with the negativity. Funny how you think having un-opposed negativity would somehow improve the site. How does that help anyone?

What you end up with is a site full of complainers because those of us who just grab our gear, figure out what we want, then go out the door with the gear we have and shoot with little regard for what Pentax should do or what they need to do, will just spend more time away from the site. It already happens. You have a chocie, accomplished Pentax shooters or complainers. Because those locked into complaining cripple themselves and others. You assume you can have both. What if you're wrong?

I find it infinitely interesting how different Pentax users make use of their gear. I find it infinitely painful reading about how "Pentax isn't good enough for me" written by those who'd rather talk than shoot, and rather complain than learn.

The one post, where someone has come up with a novel way to use Pentax tech. to produce awesome results (and which I can book mark for future reference) and to help people who are smart enough to ask questions that can be answered is why I come here. If I never saw another ridiculous uniformed negative post no one would be happier than me.


Last edited by normhead; 05-02-2020 at 09:13 AM.
05-02-2020, 08:38 AM - 4 Likes   #140
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
To me a handful of posts a week that border on trolling or extreme negativity is par for the course for a public internet messageboard. If anything that level of negativity is a sign of a very civil and well-run site.

...

If you're keeping it to one trolling thread a week it might be the most civil board I've ever been a part of.
I'm not saying we only get one or two a week, but that never a week goes by without at least one, often (usually) more - and they're not just independent threads; often, they're valueless posts that infect other positive and constructive discussion threads (as a couple of other members alluded to earlier). If this were a non-brand-specific site, it really wouldn't bother me so much, but we're pretty much carrying the torch for Pentax, here. The way I see it, we're "the" primary English-speaking online forums for our chosen brand, and as such we might set an example in our support of it. Constructive criticism can add value to the site and the brand, and I've no problem with those posts, but every negative post that adds no value whatsoever - such as the personally-motivated frustration rants, "what Ricoh should do" proclamations, "my Pentax camera died, I'm off to a more reliable brand - see ya!" drive-by posts, and "Pentax is doomed" foretellings, amongst others - just chips away at the brand's image and (perhaps only my?) enjoyment of these forums...
05-02-2020, 08:44 AM - 1 Like   #141
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
One solution would be for the rest of us to just not respond to offensive posts. The responses to "Rixoh/Pentax is...." posts are as repetitive and uninteresting as the provocative posts they hope to correct.
Not a solution, unless it's about people's offended response to me getting offended Without that, it would've been over in a few posts, not going on for several pages. You folks are more offended at my reaction than I was at the post which started it all!

But, ignoring is never a solution for the actual bashing. If anything, Pentax bashers would feel encouraged knowing they can get away with it - and people will still read their endless nonsense. Then things would get worse and worse.
I've seen it happening on other places; I'm not guessing. We're lucky with our mod team.

As for the frustrated Pentaxians (a different thing, and I'm including myself - being frustrated at Pentax' snail pace), we should try being more responsible with our statements. "is this actually true? Is it helpful?"
05-02-2020, 08:50 AM - 4 Likes   #142
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Mikesul's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 7,584
Actually, ignoring offensive behavior is the best solution most of the time. The diversion will end there if we ignore it but will go on forever if you insist on explaining the error. Note how several people felt compelled to correct my suggestion and how I felt the need to respond. Conflict resolution has been a big part of my professional life for a long time. I am out now, following my own advice.

05-02-2020, 09:18 AM   #143
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Actually, ignoring offensive behavior is the best solution most of the time. The diversion will end there if we ignore it but will go on forever if you insist on explaining the error. Note how several people felt compelled to correct my suggestion and how I felt the need to respond. Conflict resolution has been a big part of my professional life for a long time. I am out now, following my own advice.
Not all "conflict" is the same.
Our case is more like the fake news wave, than a bar brawl.
05-02-2020, 09:23 AM   #144
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,304
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Now that's a new one. Having a loyal fan base is a problem, please explain that nonsensical idea to me? For some reason that logic escapes me.
Are you not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group, are percieved? Us buying the gear is certainly good for Pentax. The idea that only grumpy strange old men buy the gear and proceed to vigorously attack online opposition. That is more of a mixed blessing. To be polite.

I think Pentax camera bodies are great and haven't used any other ilc since the mid nineties. The K-1 and the K-3 II are very well suited to my needs and i like the feature set, build, iq and ergonomics. I also think Pentax could do well if they capture some of the cred the brand has from the film bodies MF and others. The slow niche status is probably a good thing right now.
05-02-2020, 10:05 AM - 3 Likes   #145
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Are you not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group, are percieved? Us buying the gear is certainly good for Pentax. The idea that only grumpy strange old men buy the gear and proceed to vigorously attack online opposition. That is more of a mixed blessing. To be polite.
If that truly is the broad perception, then it's a huge generalisation not worthy of our attention.

That we "vigorously attack online opposition" is an interesting choice in phrasing for what I think you mean, and it rather suggests that Pentaxians are the ones looking for a fight in the first place, yet the wider non-Pentax community does us very few favours. "Robustly challenging criticism" describes the same thing, wouldn't you say? It casts a somewhat different light on it, though, suggesting the opposition's criticism comes first. I choose to believe that, in most cases, the criticism comes first, followed by the challenge or defence (vigorous or otherwise).

As Pentax users, we're a minority group, for Heaven's sake - folks shouldn't be too surprised if a few of us sometimes shout a little louder than necessary when we're told for the umpteenth time, in our own brand-specific forum, how our kit is outdated and our brand is doomed...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-02-2020 at 11:31 AM.
05-02-2020, 10:10 AM   #146
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,175
QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
To get a better camera than the K-1 (Let's say -and they are not necessarily strictly better cameras-, Sony A7R3 or Nikon D850, or Canon 5D4) I would have to shell out between 700-1000 euros just for an used body, after factoring in the going price for K-1s
It's true that the K1 at its price point is hard to beat on image quality. But newer models from competition do have improvements: slightly more resolution, slightly more image quality, (much) faster memory cards, very good image stabilization, some nice to have software features and excellent prime lenses; the combination of top notch prime lenses with slightly better sensor and features combined can make a difference on images.
05-02-2020, 10:13 AM   #147
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2019
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,976
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's true that the K1 at its price point is hard to beat on image quality. But newer models from competition do have improvements: slightly more resolution, slightly more image quality, (much) faster memory cards, very good image stabilization, some nice to have software features and excellent prime lenses; the combination of top notch prime lenses with slightly better sensor and features combined can make a difference on images.
Yes, but if we start adding "top notch" lenses, the price difference isn't going to be 1 or 2 thousand anymore - or it's an apples to oranges comparison because you're not using top glass on both systems.
05-02-2020, 10:15 AM   #148
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,175
QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Yes, but if we start adding "top notch" lenses, the price difference isn't going to be 1 or 2 thousand anymore - or it's an apples to oranges comparison because you're not using top glass on both systems.
That's right, I'd have to spend again a bunch of money, but from the results I've seen I'm confident that I'd enjoy the results.
05-02-2020, 10:49 AM   #149
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2019
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,976
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's right, I'd have to spend again a bunch of money, but from the results I've seen I'm confident that I'd enjoy the results.
And that's perfectly fine - but then again, the thing is whether the difference would justify the price. For me it most likely wouldn't; I'm more than happy with the technical quality of the images I take.
05-02-2020, 11:24 AM - 2 Likes   #150
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mississippi, USA
Posts: 5,245
QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Are you not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group, are percieved? Us buying the gear is certainly good for Pentax. The idea that only grumpy strange old men buy the gear and proceed to vigorously attack online opposition. That is more of a mixed blessing. To be polite.

I think Pentax camera bodies are great and haven't used any other ilc since the mid nineties. The K-1 and the K-3 II are very well suited to my needs and i like the feature set, build, iq and ergonomics. I also think Pentax could do well if they capture some of the cred the brand has from the film bodies MF and others. The slow niche status is probably a good thing right now.
As a matter of fact I am not aware of nor do I care how Pentaxians are falsely precieved because I don't frequent other forums or groups not dedicated to my chosen brand. I do know there are many helpful Pentaxian on this forum who would rather not have to put up with all the negativity from just a few members. I really don't give a rip about other forums that aren't specific to Pentax what they discuss is their problem but constantly criticizing Pentax on a forum dedicated to the brand is detrimental to the brand and doesn't promote the brand in the long run.

I agree the slow niche status is definitely a good thing right now and will probably stand Ricoh/Pentax in good stead when the world eventually gets back to normal.

Have a great day!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aps-c, brand, camera, cams, club, flagship, forum, forums, ilc, ir, k-3, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, performance, photos, pi, post, posts, ricoh, source, trip, twitter, whilst, wildlife
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-3 ii & Pixel Shift: How still is still? ahw Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 19 06-08-2015 09:31 AM
Abstract Still A Still Day Kerrowdown Post Your Photos! 4 03-17-2015 08:33 AM
My tomato plants are kickin' butt! Dewman General Talk 7 07-29-2014 05:20 PM
Capturing a still picture from a Movie - What it's going to be the still resolution ? brosen Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 12-12-2009 03:10 PM
People Kickin Back graphicgr8s Post Your Photos! 4 11-06-2009 08:22 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:06 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top