[Larrymc]

Well put, Mike.

[Kunzite]

Are you not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group, are percieved? Us buying the gear is certainly good for Pentax. The idea that only grumpy strange old men buy the gear and proceed to vigorously attack online opposition. That is more of a mixed blessing. To be polite.

I am aware how Pentaxians are perceived; and I am aware how it happened. Are you?
Pentax is a victim of Othering; I remember the brand and its users being attacked since the dawn of the digital age. The same attackers also promoting the idea that it's all our fault. And it became a habit.
Even now, can't you see who's making such claims? The Youtube egzpert spewing nonsense about Pentax - Othering brings views - who doesn't like being corrected; the incompetent or careless reviewer who doesn't want his biases and mistakes bought into light; the fan of another brand or technology which sees Pentax (or DSLRs) as a personal affront because it makes his choice "less perfect".
We had no chance of gently correcting this "perception", except if we all stopped using Pentax. Nobody talks about the dead.

[normhead]

Are you not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group, are percieved? Us buying the gear is certainly good for Pentax. The idea that only grumpy strange old men buy the gear and proceed to vigorously attack online opposition. That is more of a mixed blessing. To be polite.

And have you not heard any of the biased nonsense people say all the time about Pentax equipment they've never even tried? In your mind, correcting is attacking. I know folks who come here and unfairly attack the brand think they have the right dump their uninformed negative perceptions of Pentax on every Pentax owner they run into. We are supposed to say "oh yes sir, you are certainly right, I should just sell my gear and buy what you have." Great plan.

We have helped many customers from other brands decide on whether Pentax is for them. Your general perception that we attack users of other brands is insulting. Sometimes we convince them to go Pentax, sometimes we convince them to stay with what they have and make other improvements. Sometimes we suggest other switch to something different altogether, neither Pentax nor their current brand

We have nothing against users of other brands, and contray to the insult you just fired our way, many of us are users of other brands. My next trip out will hav my Lumix ZS100 for 4k video also for snapshots where I'm just passing by and only have a second to stop, and my Nikon AW 130 as pocket, waterproof shockproof point and shoot.

You are a vocal proponent of the right of other people to come and talk trash, and for some reason I'll never understand, you want to be respected for that.

Back when I coached basketball, we actually coached our players on how to trash talk, because we didn't want them getting technical fouls and sometimes a player is so good, your only hope is to needle him. I fail to see how negative comments about someone else's gear accomplishes anything.

But I'll bite, next time you see one of these outrageous Pentax owners on line, why not send us a link, so we can decide whether or not the response was justified by the original challenge. But unless you can provide me with an example I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop repeating it over and over. It is outrageous you'd make such claims without providing examples.

Honestly, some of your posts have been so negative, I'm not sure I'd agree that what you think is an uncalled for response is something the usual forum member would consider unjustified.

It is so funny that you never see the smirky self serving "Pentax is our punching bag" posts that I do. What often happens is I see so much anti-Pentax BS I just go away without registering or posting. It would take a lifetime to correct all the ridiculous anti-Pentax nonsense posted on-line. Or moe usual, you go to another forum, and as soon as it's established you shoot Pentax, no one ever responds to another one of your posts. They are such brand loyalists they can't even compliment a good image taken with the camera of another maker. Especially since it's promoted by DPR and many other sites. People come her actually drink the cool aid and then think they can come here and gain respect by spouting the nonsense that's preached everywhere else.

How it's possible your experience is so much different than mine leads me to believe you've taken to accepting unwarranted criticism of Pentax gear just to fit in. When you point your finger, people start looking back at who's pointing.

Just sayin.

[Parallax]

I do know there are many helpful Pentaxian on this forum who would rather not have to put up with all the negativity from just a few members.

Bingo! It's Nearly always a relatively small brood cackling about how bad Pentax (Pentax equipment, or Pentax the company, or both) is. Are they not aware of how Pentaxians, as an online group perceive them?
Expressing negativity is an opinion. Expressing it over, and over, and over, and over at every possible opportunity in every thread where it is even remotely relevant (sometimes not at all) is trolling and/or brand bashing.

[Doundounba]

You, and Doundounba, and some others that thinks like you are wrong; not just the claim ("any criticism"? what BS!) but the way of thinking. The defensiveness you see is because of unjust, unfair, unreasonable and constant attacks. We don't wake up in the morning and think, oh, let's defend Pentax today

See, the thing is, you don't need to take it personally! If someone attacks Ricoh/Pentax, it's not a personal affront to you or me. Someone comes in here complaining about Pentax AF. Do I feel slighted? Nope. My K-3 doesn't even blush. Heck, even my K-01 doesn't actually care. Someone comes in here complaining about the pace of development of Pentax bodies. Well, I feel their pain, actually. Perhaps you don't. That's not a reason to insult their intelligence, or suggest they just go away, IMHO.

{looong tirade complaining about other people, that ends with:} Complaining detracts from your life and adds nothing.

I find some irony in that last statement...

As Pentax users, we're a minority group, for Heaven's sake - folks shouldn't be too surprised if a few of us sometimes shout a little louder than necessary when we're told for the umpteenth time, in our own brand-specific forum, how our kit is outdated and our brand is doomed...

Yes, that's certainly true. You called it "pushback" elsewhere I think? I can certainly understand it, and it's often totally warranted. But there's pushback and then there's pushback. My beef is with those (and only those) that resort to (sometimes clever, but always tiresome) personal insult. There's often responses to criticism here on PF that I find frankly quite a bit more grating than the original criticism...

[normhead]

See, the thing is, you don't need to take it personally! If someone attacks Ricoh/Pentax, it's not a personal affront to you or me. Someone comes in here complaining about Pentax AF. Do I feel slighted? Nope. My K-3 doesn't even blush. Heck, even my K-01 doesn't actually care. Someone comes in here complaining about the pace of development of Pentax bodies. Well, I feel their pain, actually. Perhaps you don't. That's not a reason to insult their intelligence, or suggest they just go away, IMHO.

You say they just go away... do you have an example of someone who just went away? Surely if you make a claim like that you'll have examples to back it up.

I find some irony in that last statemen

t...

I find yours self serving and an excuse.. did I say anything? If you want to point the finger, people have the right to point back. But that's a poor way to conduct a discussion.

Yes, that's certainly true. You called it "pushback" elsewhere I think? I can certainly understand it, and it's often totally warranted. But there's pushback and then there's pushback. My beef is with those (and only those) that resort to (sometimes clever, but always tiresome) personal insult. There's often responses to criticism here on PF that I find frankly quite a bit more grating than the original criticism...

Hey, I represent that statement. But I'd also point out when I coached basketball, one of things you learn to do is take a technical foul.( I usually just walked onto the court and yelled at the ref. Kind of "hey, look where I'm standing, I'm not supposed to be here.") Sometimes the free shot you give the other team is worth the play stoppage and free time out.) It's a last resort, but if your team is just sleepwalking, you do something to wake them up.

[lesmore49]

I do have issues with those few who constantly criticize Pentax and rarely offer other opinion, then that continual harping, ranting and trolling against Pentax products.

It reminds me of something my favourite politician Sir Winston Churchill said, many years ago, although it wasn't about Pentax, it was about fanatics.

" A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. "

[Kunzite]

See, the thing is, you don't need to take it personally! If someone attacks Ricoh/Pentax, it's not a personal affront to you or me. Someone comes in here complaining about Pentax AF. Do I feel slighted? Nope. My K-3 doesn't even blush. Heck, even my K-01 doesn't actually care. Someone comes in here complaining about the pace of development of Pentax bodies. Well, I feel their pain, actually. Perhaps you don't. That's not a reason to insult their intelligence, or suggest they just go away, IMHO.

"Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!". "Your choice is wrong!".
Sure, there's nothing to be taken personally.
"You don't hate Pentax, so you're their employee!"
Neither is here.

Be honest. This isn't about someone coming here complaining about the pace of development. That is actually my main complaint about the current Pentax; no, I'm not repeating it every other post and that's completely normal.
I'm also not insulting anyone's intelligence. I'm also not saying people should go away (except in extreme circumstances, like - say - a guy who is only here to praise his Sony). You cannot quote me doing so.

So, who is the strawman you're fighting with? Unjust, unfair, unreasonable and you keep it on.

[BROO]

I wonder if Ricoh are taking some time to add a flippy screen to this camera, given the huge number of members who criticized the original prototype for not having one?

[Parallax]

except in extreme circumstances, like - say - a guy who is only here to praise his Sony

We had one of those a several years back.

[Mistral75]

Sorry to bother you guys since you seem to enjoy your discussion but, invoking OP's privilege, I will take the liberty to go back on topic.

An interesting comment from Kimio Tanaka two days ago:

さてK-3 II"後継機種"の進捗は、こんなご時世だけど順調に進んでるようで、わくわく愉しみ。

Source: Twitter

Translation by yours truly: 'Currently the successor to K-3 II is making progress, it seems to be progressing smoothly, I'm excited and thrilled.'

[house]

I do have issues with those few who constantly criticize Pentax and rarely offer other opinion, then that continual harping, ranting and trolling against Pentax products.

It reminds me of something my favourite politician Sir Winston Churchill said, many years ago, although it wasn't about Pentax, it was about fanatics.

" A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. "

Some more Churchill quotes below. Needless to say I find them all horrendous. Sorry about posting them but he did indeed say or write them.

I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes... (to) spread a lively terror

I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

I may certainly have to ask you to support me in using poison gas. We could drench the cities of the Ruhr and many other cities in Germany in such a way that most of the population would be requiring constant medical attention.

[Parallax]

Some more Churchill quotes below. Needless to say I find them all horrendous. Sorry about posting them but he did indeed say or write them.

JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country".
Clinton said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky".
What does any of that have to do with the thread topic, trolling, or Pentax bashing?

[Serkevan]

Sorry to bother you guys since you seem to enjoy your discussion but, invoking OP's privilege, I will take the liberty to go back on topic.

An interesting comment from Kimio Tanaka two days ago:
Source: Twitter
Translation by yours truly: 'Currently the successor to K-3 II is making progress, it seems to be progressing smoothly, I'm excited and thrilled.'

Oh, nice juicy speculation! That's great to hear... let's see there's some solid info soon.

[RobA_Oz]

Sorry to bother you guys since you seem to enjoy your discussion but, invoking OP's privilege, I will take the liberty to go back on topic.

An interesting comment from Kimio Tanaka two days ago:



Source: Twitter

Translation by yours truly: 'Currently the successor to K-3 II is making progress, it seems to be progressing smoothly, I'm excited and thrilled.'

No doubt that will generate enough discussion on its own, for a while, as the (admittedly limited) information is interpreted, inflated and dissected, before it moves back off-topic again.

Thank heavens I can get out for a walk with my camera, most days.