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05-01-2020, 06:02 AM - 1 Like   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I've got to the point where I can feel my defensive hackles raising when anyone criticises Ricoh, Pentax and/or the equipment - not because those criticisms are invalid (some are entirely warranted) but because it's all been said before so many times, and it does our brand(s) no good to vent here in the one place where you'd hope everyone would be enthusiastic and pro-brand... and I'm tired of trying, both as a moderator and regular member, to courteously redress the balance.
You're doing a great job as a mod - you should know I'd have no qualm stating otherwise if I thought so. We're not even sticking to valid criticism, as you can see here... we're poised to kill Pentax and anything goes.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
That said, the OP's had his say, vented but pledged allegiance to the brand, and we should probably move on now
Well, the damage's already done; just a tiny bit added to the other tiny bits forming the ocean of anti-Pentax BS.

05-01-2020, 07:35 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by revelstoked Quote
I certainly was not trashing Pentax, merely venting (admittedly in a somewhat trollish but certainly tounge in cheak fashion) my personal frustration that Pentax has not released a k3 ii replacement yet.
Thanks for the additional posts. Post number 63 seemed to be serious as there were no hints that it was "tounge in cheak [sic]", and the comparison of the Pi system to Pentax cameras seemed a bit odd to me. Also, the content doesn't seem to be related to Pentax News or Rumour, so another sub-forum might have been a better place for the post, perhaps.

I wasn't familiar with the Pi open-source system, but I now understand what it's all about and why folks like it. However, I still can't realize that it would be a substitute for a Pentax camera/lens system. Still, in a couple of your comments, you seem to be certain of the superiority of Pi in certain aspects. Would you mind expanding on the relative pros and cons as they relate to the type of photography that a Pentax DSLR is intended for? Have you seen this thread? https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/40...12mp-dslr.html

QuoteOriginally posted by revelstoked Quote
Here in Canada, outside of a handful of small niche retailers (in the entire country) it is virtually impossible to find one to actually handle.
I understand what you're saying, and agree to a point. I think I'd have a similar challenge to find a Pentax camera in a store here in Ottawa. Still, I'm confident that when I'm ready to purchase my next camera, I'll be able to find a satisfactory solution, either by ordering online from a dealer that allows returns or drawing on reviews and the impressions of new users here on Pentax Forums.

As for the scant marketing, is that a real problem for you, or are you more concerned for others who may not be as well tuned in to the Pentax brand? Like you, I'm well aware of Pentax, so the brand is not a mystery. As has been discussed in other threads, there is actually plenty of information available online, in reviews, forums, Ricoh Imaging websites, Ricoh Imaging Facebook pages, etc. What information are you missing?

Finally, in one of your comments, you mention "That is why Pentax wains...". I don't know whether this is true -- Pentax waning -- as I've never really looked closely into the statistics, user trends, Ricoh Imaging financial reports, etc. I think It would be very difficult for someone outside of Ricoh Imaging to arrive at a clear picture of the situation concerning the Pentax brand. It would be useful, I think, if you could provide whatever evidence or insight you have.

Overall, have you considered any other camera brands that might be more suited to your needs and expectations? Jumping ship, as they say, might reduce the level of frustration, provide for in-store comparisons, and open up the option of more-frequent changes of gear or upgrades.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 05-02-2020 at 07:18 AM.
05-01-2020, 07:43 AM - 3 Likes   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Mocking Pentax... is something that happened for decades. Like you, I'm sick of it. Other brands' users, other type of cameras users, even Pentaxians unhappy Pentax is not just a cheaper Canikon... over and over and over and over again.

Let's not fool ourselves by pushing all the blame on Pentax (whatever "Pentax" means... Pentax Corporation, Pentax a Hoya division, or Ricoh Imaging). We're at the stage when people are attacked for not hating Pentax enough. Pentax marketing? How could any marketing compensate for the constant attack on the brand, even from its users?

It's as if we're all so dissatisfied with Pentax we can't find anything good to say about them. It's as if it is impossible to be anything than unhappy with Pentax. Surely I'm being paid not to hate Pentax' guts!

And all my lenses are made by whomever, and any 1/2.3" webcam is better than my K-1.

OK, I changed my mind. Open that section... I have plenty to rant about!
I think some context is in order. At the bottom of the main forum page it says that Pentax Forums has 4,793,705 posts 380,719 threads 68,812 members. The vast majority are people writing about their Pentax cameras and lenses and flashes and related gear. They post thousands upon thousands of beautiful pictures taken with Pentax cameras. People talk about how to better use their Pentax cameras, how to bring new users up to speed on various features. Countless posts offering advice on what to buy, how to improve technique, what software to use to squeeze more goodness out of their RAW files. How to set up the in-camera jpg engine. They post about what they love, and, yes, sometimes what they don't. And out of all that your primary concern is that a small percentage of posts take issue with Pentax or their direction or pace?

I find it hard to believe that a relative few critical posts out of an entire ecosystem devoted to Pentax cameras is going to cause the whole thing to collapse. If Pentax is on such shaky ground that a half-mocking post about a Raspberry Pi camera is threatening then perhaps they are doomed.
05-01-2020, 08:16 AM - 3 Likes   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think some context is in order. At the bottom of the main forum page it says that Pentax Forums has 4,793,705 posts 380,719 threads 68,812 members. The vast majority are people writing about their Pentax cameras and lenses and flashes and related gear. They post thousands upon thousands of beautiful pictures taken with Pentax cameras. People talk about how to better use their Pentax cameras, how to bring new users up to speed on various features. Countless posts offering advice on what to buy, how to improve technique, what software to use to squeeze more goodness out of their RAW files. How to set up the in-camera jpg engine. They post about what they love, and, yes, sometimes what they don't. And out of all that your primary concern is that a small percentage of posts take issue with Pentax or their direction or pace?

I find it hard to believe that a relative few critical posts out of an entire ecosystem devoted to Pentax cameras is going to cause the whole thing to collapse. If Pentax is on such shaky ground that a half-mocking post about a Raspberry Pi camera is threatening then perhaps they are doomed.
It's not about the number of posts. It's about the number of previously good threads hi-jacked by the insanity.

Every criticism of Pentax can be summarized as " I didn't do enough research before I bought." Pentax has been doing what Pentax does for a century. Those who have done even the slightest amount of research are aware of the fall of the market share, their lack of support for retailers, their slow pace of releasing new product, their avoidance of mirrorless. These things are given. Most who post here are aware of them. But we've all found positives that keep us with the brand.

It's painful seeing people going on about their failings in selecting a brand that fulfilled their mirrorless, new lens every month, low volume niche products, available in stores dreams. It's even more annoying if they believe their unhappiness has something to do with Pentax. People need to take responsibility for their poor decisions. None of us care if anyone dumps their Pentax gear and buys something else. The hypocrisy of whining on the forum about a decision you made on your own is obvious. People should stop doing it. It's like they are trying to convince us that the negative crybaby attitudes are in some way relevant to those of us who are quite happy as Pentax shooters.

I now own both Nikon and Panasonic cameras. My solution to no 4k video, buy a Panasonic ZS100. It's cheaper than half my lenses, and fits almost un-noticed in the front pocket of my camera bag. Another lens or a 4k camera? It's a personal decision. Why bother us with it? Those of us who just save for what we need when we need something different get bored with the angst.

Those of us with help of time who cruise the forum looking for information or people asking for help don't need whining and complainers. Just what is it all this whining and speculation is supposed to accomplish? Oh ya, selfish posters who don't mind spreading their unhappy attitudes all over the forum get attention.

More help for the keeners, less attention for the self inflicted unhappy folks would be my preference.

We need a"What''s wrong with Pentax?" forum for people to vent, without polluting otherwise useful threads.

I was dumb when I bought into Pentax because of this and this and this is not productive thought. Yet everyone frames these arguments as if it's Pentax that's messing up, not that they messed up and bought into a company that wasn't appropriate to their needs. That would also give the rest of us a chance to just block the whole thread and go on as if it doesn't exist which it doesn't for anyone but the afflicted. The biggest problem I have with this behaviour is the mess made of relevant threads with irrelevant posts based someone else's unhappiness, or speculation.


Last edited by normhead; 05-01-2020 at 08:24 AM.
05-01-2020, 09:03 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's not about the number of posts. It's about the number of previously good threads hi-jacked by the insanity.

Every criticism of Pentax can be summarized as " I didn't do enough research before I bought." Pentax has been doing what Pentax does for a century. Those who have done even the slightest amount of research are aware of the fall of the market share, their lack of support for retailers, their slow pace of releasing new product, their avoidance of mirrorless. These things are given. Most who post here are aware of them. But we've all found positives that keep us with the brand.

It's painful seeing people going on about their failings in selecting a brand that fulfilled their mirrorless, new lens every month, low volume niche products, available in stores dreams. It's even more annoying if they believe their unhappiness has something to do with Pentax. People need to take responsibility for their poor decisions. None of us care if anyone dumps their Pentax gear and buys something else. The hypocrisy of whining on the forum about a decision you made on your own is obvious. People should stop doing it. It's like they are trying to convince us that the negative crybaby attitudes are in some way relevant to those of us who are quite happy as Pentax shooters.

I now own both Nikon and Panasonic cameras. My solution to no 4k video, buy a Panasonic ZS100. It's cheaper than half my lenses, and fits almost un-noticed in the front pocket of my camera bag. Another lens or a 4k camera? It's a personal decision. Why bother us with it? Those of us who just save for what we need when we need something different get bored with the angst.

Those of us with help of time who cruise the forum looking for information or people asking for help don't need whining and complainers. Just what is it all this whining and speculation is supposed to accomplish? Oh ya, selfish posters who don't mind spreading their unhappy attitudes all over the forum get attention.

More help for the keeners, less attention for the self inflicted unhappy folks would be my preference.

We need a"What''s wrong with Pentax?" forum for people to vent, without polluting otherwise useful threads.

I was dumb when I bought into Pentax because of this and this and this is not productive thought. Yet everyone frames these arguments as if it's Pentax that's messing up, not that they messed up and bought into a company that wasn't appropriate to their needs. That would also give the rest of us a chance to just block the whole thread and go on as if it doesn't exist which it doesn't for anyone but the afflicted. The biggest problem I have with this behaviour is the mess made of relevant threads with irrelevant posts based someone else's unhappiness, or speculation.
There are 68,000 members of this forum. People. They're from all different backgrounds and countries and educations, they speak different languages, and certainly have countless ways they use their cameras and reasons for choosing what they use. Some have owned Pentax camera since 1952, some since last Thursday. People are people, and they're not going to toe the line and discuss only what a select group wants to talk about. Not without heavy-handed moderation. Our primary goal here is to share information and discuss the brand, not to ensure long-time Pentax users are never annoyed.

When I bought into Pentax it was to have a "nice" camera to take pictures of the family. The K-30 was great for that, still is. My kids went from preschool to middle school. I went from not knowing much of anything to being a fairly competent photographer with a K-30 and now a K-3ii. My kids play a lot of sports, and now I like to take pictures of them doing that. I had no idea that would be something I'd do a lot of eight years ago. So sometimes I participate in threads where I discuss AF technique, and that transitions to discussing the potential AF capabilities of the K-new, and naturally comparing Pentax to other systems. And unfortunately sometimes I'm accused of being a not very good photographer, or not being very knowledgeable, or not trying hard enough because it appears that the combination of me and my current Pentax camera isn't quite state-of-the-art in doing action photography. You basically just said that I wasn't very smart for investing in Pentax because of a capability that I didn't know I'd need years later.


I think we can have discussions about the performance, limits, edges and future capabilities of Pentax without labeling people whiners and complainers and crybabies. We can talk about the pros and cons of the brand in a civil and decent way. It's not going to torpedo Pentax.
05-01-2020, 09:40 AM   #96
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The thread title is “K-New: still kickin'...” and it seems some folk would like to give it a proper kicking before it’s even launched. How tedious. Another thread to ignore because of no use to man nor beast.

StiffLegged over and out.
05-01-2020, 09:41 AM - 3 Likes   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
There are 68,000 members of this forum. People. They're from all different backgrounds and countries and educations, they speak different languages, and certainly have countless ways they use their cameras and reasons for choosing what they use. Some have owned Pentax camera since 1952, some since last Thursday. People are people, and they're not going to toe the line and discuss only what a select group wants to talk about. Not without heavy-handed moderation. Our primary goal here is to share information and discuss the brand, not to ensure long-time Pentax users are never annoyed.
"Never annoyed" is a misrepresentation, don't you think? It's a constant attack, not an occasional annoyance.
There are people mocking and attacking Pentax for whatever reason, and there are others fighting for those folks' "right" to mock and attack Pentax. Yet I seldom see people fighting for our right to be reasonably happy with Pentax - without being constantly told how mirrorless is better, how we need marketing to tell us what we already know (but any marketing attempt is attacked as well), how the recent, excellent product is no good. Without being ridiculed or attacked for it.

We are already a select group, that of Pentaxians. If this is an issue for some, there's an easy choice: stop being a Pentaxian. There are tons of other systems out there.
But, there's a trick: be graceful about it.

And - what is informative in claiming Raspberry Pi's webcam module will surpass Pentax? What is informative in the never ending PentaxIsDoomed BS we were subjected to for decades?

QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think we can have discussions about the performance, limits, edges and future capabilities of Pentax without labeling people whiners and complainers and crybabies. We can talk about the pros and cons of the brand in a civil and decent way. It's not going to torpedo Pentax.
You're attempting a strawman, which is neither civil nor decent.
Raspberry Pi webcam surpassing Pentax, remember?
05-01-2020, 10:03 AM - 1 Like   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
From your other words, I believe you did not purchase the KP. Why not? What have you personally done recently to encourage someone - anyone - to sell Pentax?
I like quite alot about the KP on paper and I think it's a pretty camera. If it had had better video specs I would have probably bought it online ages ago. Because it did not I was a bit hesitant and read more reviews and watched whatever video reviews there were but still couldn't bring myself to order it. It was always in the back of my mind that I might be missing out and so I finally found one, held it, put my lenses on it, took pictures with it (in the store and on the street infront of the store- thanks Kerrisdale!) But in the end, for me, it did not feel comfortable in my hands despite all its charm. Thats why I did not buy it. To the question of advocating, there is a strong action sports photography scene in my community, a handful of full time professionals, quite a few semi pro and some fabulous amateur photographers. No other pentaxians that I'm aware of. I know many of these people in passing (small community) and we have talked gear on many occasions but it's a tough sell when you are vested in a system for a long time. A few Canikon shooters have jumped to Sony for the wiz bang features and video quality but found the cameras uncomfortable or unsuited to their use. Some stuck, most crawled back to their respective corners after a season, following their glass. None have yet jumped to Pentax, but there's always hope.


Last edited by revelstoked; 05-01-2020 at 10:10 AM.
05-01-2020, 10:08 AM - 2 Likes   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Never annoyed" is a misrepresentation, don't you think? It's a constant attack, not an occasional annoyance.
There are people mocking and attacking Pentax for whatever reason, and there are others fighting for those folks' "right" to mock and attack Pentax. Yet I seldom see people fighting for our right to be reasonably happy with Pentax - without being constantly told how mirrorless is better, how we need marketing to tell us what we already know (but any marketing attempt is attacked as well), how the recent, excellent product is no good. Without being ridiculed or attacked for it.

We are already a select group, that of Pentaxians. If this is an issue for some, there's an easy choice: stop being a Pentaxian. There are tons of other systems out there.
But, there's a trick: be graceful about it.

And - what is informative in claiming Raspberry Pi's webcam module will surpass Pentax? What is informative in the never ending PentaxIsDoomed BS we were subjected to for decades?


You're attempting a strawman, which is neither civil nor decent.
Raspberry Pi webcam surpassing Pentax, remember?
I think you exaggerate. You could have approached the Raspberry Pi post with something simple like "you must be kidding, this is but a cell-phone sized camera module." But instead you chose to take great offense and claim this was horribly injurious to the brand. Instead of fanning the flames it's probably better to laugh off or ignore hyperbolic comments.

Perhaps it wouldn't seem like so many threads were derailed if every perceived slight and every mention of another brand wasn't treated as an affront to Pentax' honor and dignity, requiring a duel with pistols at dawn to bring to conclusion.
05-01-2020, 10:15 AM   #100
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While this thread is, probably a wrong place for such a post, but anyway. I will definitely buy this Pi camera. It may give the same image quality as Pentax Q7. Sure it will lack Q portability but network and wifi capabilities will be superior as well as the ability to play with software. There are a lot of usages: live monitoring, time lapsing, AI projects, you name it. And altogether (camera and computer) <=$100! Nice toy for the money. Thanks, for bringing this topic here.
05-01-2020, 10:21 AM - 3 Likes   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Our primary goal here is to share information and discuss the brand, not to ensure long-time Pentax users are never annoyed.
QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
We can talk about the pros and cons of the brand in a civil and decent way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
There are people mocking and attacking Pentax for whatever reason
I find that the posts and discussions on Pentax Forums are generally polite, mature, thoughtful, and informative. Well-founded debate is appreciated, as is well-presented sarcasm or humour, and the daily infusion of insight and lessons is useful. This is a great social platform, perhaps the world's best place for all things Pentax.

However, I also find that my technical background leads me to disappointment when I read unsubstantiated claims, wild assumptions, or outright brand-bashing. As mentioned by others, fortunately this type of presentation is the exception, but it's not constructive and it's unnecessary in my view, despite those posters' apparent need to vent, rant, or troll. It is possible to simply ignore these posts, and life goes on. On the other hand, I think it's reasonable to ask those posters politely for more information or to explain their perspectives. Typically, the negativity dissipates when they realize that their statements don't have a defensible basis, or moderators step in to adeptly ease tensions.

It's also possible to enter into a discussion to help a member to tease out their real gear issues, and to help them find a solution. For example, if a user finds that Pentax cameras cannot meet their main requirements, then another brand might be a smart solution. I don't think it's constructive for a member to harp on a weakness without exploring and presenting other options.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 05-01-2020 at 11:14 AM.
05-01-2020, 10:25 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think you exaggerate. You could have approached the Raspberry Pi post with something simple like "you must be kidding, this is but a cell-phone sized camera module." But instead you chose to take great offense and claim this was horribly injurious to the brand. Instead of fanning the flames it's probably better to laugh off or ignore hyperbolic comments.

Perhaps it wouldn't seem like so many threads were derailed if every perceived slight and every mention of another brand wasn't treated as an affront to Pentax' honor and dignity, requiring a duel with pistols at dawn to bring to conclusion.
Once again, it is my fault for exaggerating but the "Raspberry Pi better than Pentax" should be treated as a joke.
q.e.d.
05-01-2020, 10:29 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Never annoyed" is a misrepresentation, don't you think? It's a constant attack, not an occasional annoyance.
There are people mocking and attacking Pentax for whatever reason, and there are others fighting for those folks' "right" to mock and attack Pentax. Yet I seldom see people fighting for our right to be reasonably happy with Pentax - without being constantly told how mirrorless is better, how we need marketing to tell us what we already know (but any marketing attempt is attacked as well), how the recent, excellent product is no good. Without being ridiculed or attacked for it.

We are already a select group, that of Pentaxians. If this is an issue for some, there's an easy choice: stop being a Pentaxian. There are tons of other systems out there.
But, there's a trick: be graceful about it.

And - what is informative in claiming Raspberry Pi's webcam module will surpass Pentax? What is informative in the never ending PentaxIsDoomed BS we were subjected to for decades?


You're attempting a strawman, which is neither civil nor decent.
Raspberry Pi webcam surpassing Pentax, remember?
To be fair I did say in a few iterations. And although, as I have stated, it was a crass joke, it is not all that unthinkable considering pi's pace of development and the fact that apparently anyone can go buy a new BSI sensor from Sony. The frustrating fact that it is not entirely unthinkable is why I posted it in the first place. Also, yeah building stuff!
05-01-2020, 10:38 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by revelstoked Quote
To be fair I did say in a few iterations. And although, as I have stated, it was a crass joke, it is not all that unthinkable considering pi's pace of development and the fact that apparently anyone can go buy a new BSI sensor from Sony. The frustrating fact that it is not entirely unthinkable is why I posted it in the first place. Also, yeah building stuff!
Of course it is unthinkable, unless you establish specific criteria - price, user programmable, in other words Raspberry Pi's strengths and not a high end photographic camera's. Unless you're completely unfair.
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As a few people have pointed out, a circuit board with a sensor and a c mount is not really even in the same category as a full fledged DSLR. It was an intentionally exaggerated comparison with some small nuggets of truth (which I will assume is what has raised some hackles). It was basically a selfish personal call to the universe for Pentax to hurry up and make me a new camera. That said, I have enjoyed reading and responding to the discussion it generated. I do not feel that criticism, in of it self, is bad. I want Pentax to succeed and give me a beautiful new tool to replace my well worn and well loved current one. I will not be posting to this thread again, thanks for the talk!
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