[house]

To me, the crowd that takes great offense as soon as any criticism is made of The Brand and start calling the personal integrity of a poster into question by asking him to purchase more gear (or just plain insulting their intelligence), well, that crowd makes PF - this place - a much less fun place to hang out in. The aggressivity, the defensiveness, it's just all pretty tiresome.

There's no doubt brand loyalist are doing Pentax no favours. The problem with having to zelaeaous fans was even mentioned by a Pentax high up in one of those rare interviews.

[Rondec]

There's no doubt brand loyalist are doing Pentax no favours. The problem with having to zelaeaous fans was even mentioned by a Pentax high up in one of those rare interviews.

Do you honestly think that Pentaxians are the problem? I guess I don't really see that. If Pentaxians went away there would be no Pentax, as it isn't as though they are stealing a bunch of Nikon or Canon users. Maybe that will change with a new camera's release, but at least right now, it is the faithful that keep things going and actually buy new gear when it is released.

[biz-engineer]

It's going to be hard to sustain the Pentax brand without Ricoh keeping in touch with customers by doing something like firmware updates for the current camera models. There would be some room to add a feature or two. With Ricoh doing nothing, you may eventually sell the Pentax camera/lenses you have to fund the purchase of another better system, spending a thousand or two, to get something better.

[noelpolar]

I must be a bit weird.... my pentax stuff is still doing what it was doing 3 or 4 years ago (and much longer for some bits)... and I haven't deveoped any super photography powers in that time that makes it redundant. I think lots of people just need stuff to help distract them from.......

Maybe I'm wrong in this because my super power is pizza related.

[house]

Do you honestly think that Pentaxians are the problem? I guess I don't really see that. If Pentaxians went away there would be no Pentax, as it isn't as though they are stealing a bunch of Nikon or Canon users. Maybe that will change with a new camera's release, but at least right now, it is the faithful that keep things going and actually buy new gear when it is released.

I was only referring to defensive, easily provoked online brand warriors who come up with more or less unhinged conspiracy theories and battle all heretics.

[Kunzite]

There's no doubt brand loyalist are doing Pentax no favours. The problem with having to zelaeaous fans was even mentioned by a Pentax high up in one of those rare interviews.

Once again, people are at fault for not hating Pentax enough. How do we dare not accept the Universal Truth, that Everything Is Better Than Pentax? Even a webcam... after a few iterations

No Pentax/Ricoh executive attacked Pentaxians for being zealous, ever. Don't twist whatever fragments of interviews you're remembering as ammunition to attack people, that's not a honest approach.

You, and Doundounba, and some others that thinks like you are wrong; not just the claim ("any criticism"? what BS!) but the way of thinking. The defensiveness you see is because of unjust, unfair, unreasonable and constant attacks. We don't wake up in the morning and think, oh, let's defend Pentax today
It's actually in the word's definition: the action of defending from or resisting attack. But with you guys, the attack is never the issue... only the defense is, that we don't give up to the Universal Truth mentioned above.
I'm sick of that.

[Kunzite]

I was only referring to defensive, easily provoked online brand warriors who come up with more or less unhinged conspiracy theories and battle all heretics.

You were merely inventing enemies and mocking them, just as real people are mocking Pentax.
And few days ago you were talking about "some strange Pentax patriotism".

[Parallax]

I had to double check the dates of the posts here. The same "Pentax is doomed" "they can't last much longer" "get out now while you can" Doomed! DOOMED I tell ya" as when I joined 12 years ago. It's a bit like watching "Groundhog Day"

Okay, the Pentax is doomed because it's customers are loyal is a new one, but other than that............................

[Kunzite]

Weirdly enough, it's not a new one for me....

[BigMackCam]

There's no doubt brand loyalist are doing Pentax no favours. The problem with having to zelaeaous fans was even mentioned by a Pentax high up in one of those rare interviews.

With respect, it's not about brand loyalists but forum loyalists.

I hope I speak for most members when I say folks here want to enjoy these forums as a brand-specific and - mostly - brand-positive social facility.

A good friend of mine PM'd me some weeks back asking if I was OK, because my level of posting in the forums had really tailed off in recent months (with the exception of moderating posts, though even those were somewhat less frequent). One of the reasons I gave him for my reduced involvement was, and I quote precisely, "I'm weary of trying to re-balance brand-negative posts and threads". I still feel that way.

If I want to read folks venting about how badly Pentax is doing, how it missed the boat on mirrorless, how much better other brands are, how few new lenses Pentax has, how noisy they are due to screw drive, how this lens is far cheaper on other mounts than K-mount, how bad the marketing or servicing is, how my chosen brand is doomed to failure etc., I can join a non-brand-specific forum like DPR. Heck, it's almost a sport over there.

I expect some level of constructive brand criticism here, of course, but non-constructive griping and venting about the same old issues and personal frustrations time and again helps no-one. It's really tiresome and frustrating - especially since we can't do anything to help. I don't think a week goes by without at least one such post, often more. If I went to a local weekly camera club meeting and there were two or three guys who always had some derisory comments to make about my chosen gear, I'd probably decide that wasn't the club for me.

Furthermore, as I've posted many times, every brand-negative thread and post in these forums is visible not just to our entire community, but everyone else on the web shooting or considering shooting Pentax, some of whom will be inexperienced and/or impressionable. Such posts come up in search engine results. Now, if these posts are constructive discussions, that's fine - but if it's just people venting or repeatedly knocking the brand, it does Pentax no good whatsoever.

We're mostly realists here, I think... Few are so brand-loyal that they wouldn't admit Ricoh and the current state of the Pentax brand has some issues. As I said in a previous post, we've heard all of the criticisms before, and would even acknowledge some of them. That, in spite of them, we continue to choose to shoot Pentax, and choose to socialise in a brand-specific forum site, should demonstrate to anyone that we're more-or-less happy with our gear and supportive of the brand. We're mostly a friendly and accepting place, too. We try to help folks that need assistance and those who are frustrated with technical or user-related issues with their equipment. But we can't help when someone's just ranting or bad-mouthing the brand... and we're not therapists being paid to listen quietly while someone throws tantrums and vents their frustration.

For the record, I'm not a brand loyalist. I shoot Pentax because it suits me to do so. I like how the equipment is built, how it operates, I like the image quality from the raw files, the lenses, what it cost(s) me to build up, maintain and expand my kit as necessary, and - importantly - the support and camaraderie here on PentaxForums. I'm here for friendship, to help people, to learn and discuss useful and interesting stuff, and - in some small way - to promote the brand in the interests of its longevity (since that serves all of us well). After four years of moderating here, there isn't a weakness in Ricoh and/or Pentax you could raise that I haven't heard before numerous times - and I've heard them more than enough by now, frankly. If others would prefer we allow free-for-all venting, ranting and criticism of Pentax in these forums without pushing back on that, it's not the place for me any more - and that would sadden me greatly.

[ThorSanchez]

I expect some level of constructive brand criticism here, of course, but non-constructive griping and venting about the same old issues and personal frustrations time and again helps no-one. It's really tiresome and frustrating - especially since we can't do anything to help. I don't think a week goes by without at least one such post, often more. If I went to a local weekly camera club meeting and there were two or three guys who always had some derisory comments to make about my chosen gear, I'd probably decide that wasn't the club for me.

To me a handful of posts a week that border on trolling or extreme negativity is par for the course for a public internet messageboard. If anything that level of negativity is a sign of a very civil and well-run site.

I post of a handful of other sites besides this one. Mostly related to baseball. On the Baltimore Orioles site, which is over 20 years old and very well run and moderated, there are a number of regular posters who constantly post about how badly the team is being run, even in the middle of excellent seasons. They constantly call for overthrow of the team's ownership and management. In 2014 when they won the division there were calls to tear down the team and start over. When the team finally did turn over the front office in 2018 the reaction from these posters was mainly that it was great the old staffers were fired, but the new ones are even worse.

I post on another site run by prominent baseball author Bill James. Literally 1/3rd of the threads are the same six guys having the most bitter, mud-slinging, name-calling political fights. Even threads nominally about baseball.

And I post sometimes on the forums for baseball sim called Out of the Park. The game is a small independent effort that's really grown on the basis of its small, rabid (almost Pentax-like) fanbase. MLB itself has been running sims on OOTP this year during the COVID situation. But on the main board right now 11 of the top 20 threads are about things wrong with the game, some of them of the tone "I can't believe how unrealistic this is, I might ask for a refund."

If you're keeping it to one trolling thread a week it might be the most civil board I've ever been a part of.

[house]

The defensiveness you see is because of unjust, unfair, unreasonable and constant attacks. We don't wake up in the morning and think, oh, let's defend Pentax today

I don't doubt it and for sure there are reasons to be annoyed at certain reviewers. There are however quite a few occasions on this site when rather harmless comments or questions get rather aggressive replies due to not being pro Pentax enough. The general view of Pentaxians as grumpy old men won't be disproved by looking at the reactions to brand critical posts on this site.

Of course there is also a lot of friendly sharing of knowledge etc. on this site but only as long as there are no critical questions.

[Larrymc]

There's no doubt brand loyalist are doing Pentax no favours. The problem with having to zelaeaous fans was even mentioned by a Pentax high up in one of those rare interviews.

Now that's a new one. Having a loyal fan base is a problem, please explain that nonsensical idea to me? For some reason that logic escapes me.

[reh321]

It's going to be hard to sustain the Pentax brand without Ricoh keeping in touch with customers by doing something like firmware updates for the current camera models. There would be some room to add a feature or two. With Ricoh doing nothing, you may eventually sell the Pentax camera/lenses you have to fund the purchase of another better system, spending a thousand or two, to get something better.

Not me.

I was perfectly happy for my “Super Program” for twelve years. It would have nice if they could have added AF with ‘just a firmware tweak’, but expecting that would have been silly. Similarly, a ‘software tweak’ wouldn’t have done my K-30 any good, and my KP reminds me of Pentax every time I pick it up.

[Serkevan]

My gear does everything I require of it. On the rare situations it doesn't, my first instinct is to try harder because I am the one messing up.


Honestly, I'm sure that there are brands that can give me more performance for whatever metric I can think of. I'm also sure that I would have to A) spend more, B) deal with inferior ergonomics, C) not have access to a veritable arsenal of diminutive primes with more than enough IQ for my needs (Isn't that 77 beyond gorgeous?). "Modern" and "New" are not necessarily noticeable improvements in real use. A well made adjustable spanner is every bit as useful as it was a hundred years ago.

---------- Post added 05-02-20 at 07:01 AM ----------

It's going to be hard to sustain the Pentax brand without Ricoh keeping in touch with customers by doing something like firmware updates for the current camera models. There would be some room to add a feature or two. With Ricoh doing nothing, you may eventually sell the Pentax camera/lenses you have to fund the purchase of another better system, spending a thousand or two, to get something better.

To get a better camera than the K-1 (Let's say -and they are not necessarily strictly better cameras-, Sony A7R3 or Nikon D850, or Canon 5D4) I would have to shell out between 700-1000 euros just for an used body, after factoring in the going price for K-1s.

And I would probably not notice any difference beyond being infuriated at the Sony's ergonomics.