HD Pentax-D FA★ 85mm f/1.4 SDM AW

Kunzite · 03-27-2020, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance.

The KAF2 which was made with, and without power zoom contacts? And with, and without in-lens AF motors? (it was the removal of screw drive AF support which made the KAF3 mount; not the adding of in-lens AF motors).
And I said "should" instead of "will" while you're saying "definitely". Hmm...

Mistral75 · 03-27-2020, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The KAF2 which was made with, and without power zoom contacts? And with, and without in-lens AF motors? (it was the removal of screw drive AF support which made the KAF3 mount; not the adding of in-lens AF motors).
(...)

KAF2 is not directly related to in-lens autofocus motor. KAF2 = KAF + advanced lens-body digital transmission + power zoom capability.

Summary of the K-Mount Evolution, Names, and Features | The K-Mount Page

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...)
And I said "should" instead of "will" while you're saying "definitely". Hmm...

You wrote:

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...) Even adding a new communication pin might not require breaking compatibility (and a new mount "version").

whereas I wrote:

Originally posted by Mistral75

Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance.

Kunzite · 03-27-2020, 04:47 AM

I already knew what KAF2 means, and it's quite evident from my post; I also know what I wrote, and properly read what you wrote. The point you are ignoring is that the same KAF2 had different "minor versions".
Adding a pin would not definitely give us KAF5. It might, but then Ricoh Imaging would unnecessarily have to explain compatibility.

Wheatfield · 03-27-2020, 05:02 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Nope; a short flange distance mirrorless mount, by definition, will not be K-mount.

Whatever they decide to call it. They could call it the turnip mount. The KAF4 has the flexibility, like the EOS mount, for incremental improvements over time.
The next mount will be a short distance one.

Kunzite · 03-27-2020, 05:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Whatever they decide to call it. They could call it the turnip mount. The KAF4 has the flexibility, like the EOS mount, for incremental improvements over time.
The next mount will be a short distance one.

Yes, that's precisely the point I was making.

phoebus · 03-27-2020, 05:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance.

There's nothing to prevent the current data pin being driven at higher speeds for compatible body/lens combinations, and maintain current speeds for older lens. You don't [need to] add pins to make data go faster. You don't even need to call it a different mount, camera and lens could just silently adjust to the fastest capability. For all we know, that might have already happened - hence backward capability of KAF4 may be physically limited by the data transmission electronics of the older cameras. Just compare to the USB speeds - same connector (for 1.0 to 2.0, 3.0+ does add pins but still backwards compatible), many different standards: 1.5 Mb/s for version 1.0 to 20 Gb/s for version 3.2, but you can still plug USB 1.0 device into USB 3.2 socket and it will work at 1.5 Mb/s.

**acoufap** · 03-27-2020, 07:54 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by thibs

The Lens. For me, strictly personnal.
I won't have a focus by wire crap, ever.

Only idiots never change their mind, I know

I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties.

**Serkevan** · 03-27-2020, 08:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by phoebus

There's nothing to prevent the current data pin being driven at higher speeds for compatible body/lens combinations, and maintain current speeds for older lens. You don't [need to] add pins to make data go faster. You don't even need to call it a different mount, camera and lens could just silently adjust to the fastest capability. For all we know, that might have already happened - hence backward capability of KAF4 may be physically limited by the data transmission electronics of the older cameras. Just compare to the USB speeds - same connector (for 1.0 to 2.0, 3.0+ does add pins but still backwards compatible), many different standards: 1.5 Mb/s for version 1.0 to 20 Gb/s for version 3.2, but you can still plug USB 1.0 device into USB 3.2 socket and it will work at 1.5 Mb/s.

Yeah, but the port is still called USB 3.2.

SD cards, on the other hand, added extra pins for a certain someone's beloved standard, while still being SD cards and maintaining backwards compatibility.

MMVIII · 03-27-2020, 08:39 AM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by zzeitg

Considering the total price of the (*) lens, would it be much more expensive to implement the mechanical aperture lever, too? (Like in case of the DA* problematic lenses. SDM motor dead -> converting to screwdrive saves the lens AF.)

This is so odd. If the DA* SDM lenses of the first generation have taught something: if you add complexity like the dual focus mechanisms it is more prone to failure than a single reliable system.
The number of people ready to spend more than 1500 € on a modern lens capable of delivering sharpness in the corners wide open with the intention to mainly use it cropped on a low resolution camera from ten years ago might not be very large and Ricoh has my full understanding if those are not a prioritised target group.

Zygonyx · 03-27-2020, 08:56 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by acoufap

I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties.

Of course, and amongst them the quickest Pentax zoom lens AF ever.

**Pål Jensen** · 03-27-2020, 09:09 AM - **6 Likes**

Originally posted by acoufap

I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties.

I was skeptical to it at first. The truth is that the 55-300PLM is the best ever Pentax lens when factors such as performance, convenience, size, weight and price are being taken into consideration....

UlrichSchiegg · 03-27-2020, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

OTOH this is likely the last evolution of the K-mount.
They can change focus motors, update communication protocols to some extent, even adding in-lens stabilisation; but there should be no need for a KAF 5

Aircraft industry was moving from Mechanical to Electrical to Optical information transmittal, and who knows what comes afterwards. Shape memory materials in lenses? The future is hard to imagine.

zapp · 03-27-2020, 10:01 AM

Pentax, please stop pointless discussions and deliver the lens.

Mistral75 · 03-27-2020, 10:28 AM - **12 Likes**

^ Judging by this thread, pointless discussions come more from Pentaxians than from Pentax...

**acoufap** · 03-27-2020, 11:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I was skeptical to it at first. The truth is that the 55-300PLM is the best ever Pentax lens when factors such as performance, convenience, size, weight and price are being taken into consideration....

That sums it up well - and we can even combine it with DA TC1.4x and get 420mm in a compact package.

03-27-2020, 05:26 AM - 1 Like	#156
phoebus Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Buckinghamshire (UK) / Morbihan (FR) Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	Originally posted by Mistral75 Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance. There's nothing to prevent the current data pin being driven at higher speeds for compatible body/lens combinations, and maintain current speeds for older lens. You don't [need to] add pins to make data go faster. You don't even need to call it a different mount, camera and lens could just silently adjust to the fastest capability. For all we know, that might have already happened - hence backward capability of KAF4 may be physically limited by the data transmission electronics of the older cameras. Just compare to the USB speeds - same connector (for 1.0 to 2.0, 3.0+ does add pins but still backwards compatible), many different standards: 1.5 Mb/s for version 1.0 to 20 Gb/s for version 3.2, but you can still plug USB 1.0 device into USB 3.2 socket and it will work at 1.5 Mb/s. Last edited by phoebus; 03-27-2020 at 06:10 AM. Reason: Clarity about difference between USB 3 and earlier hardware

03-27-2020, 09:09 AM - 6 Likes	#161
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by acoufap I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties. I was skeptical to it at first. The truth is that the 55-300PLM is the best ever Pentax lens when factors such as performance, convenience, size, weight and price are being taken into consideration.... Last edited by Pål Jensen; 03-27-2020 at 09:32 AM.

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03-27-2020, 04:16 AM	#151
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Mistral75 Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance. The KAF2 which was made with, and without power zoom contacts? And with, and without in-lens AF motors? (it was the removal of screw drive AF support which made the KAF3 mount; not the adding of in-lens AF motors). And I said "should" instead of "will" while you're saying "definitely". Hmm...

03-27-2020, 04:25 AM	#152
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Kunzite The KAF2 which was made with, and without power zoom contacts? And with, and without in-lens AF motors? (it was the removal of screw drive AF support which made the KAF3 mount; not the adding of in-lens AF motors). (...) KAF2 is not directly related to in-lens autofocus motor. KAF2 = KAF + advanced lens-body digital transmission + power zoom capability. Summary of the K-Mount Evolution, Names, and Features \| The K-Mount Page Originally posted by Kunzite (...) And I said "should" instead of "will" while you're saying "definitely". Hmm... You wrote: Originally posted by Kunzite (...) Even adding a new communication pin might not require breaking compatibility (and a new mount "version"). whereas I wrote: Originally posted by Mistral75 Adding a new pin or several would not necessarily require breaking compatibility, I'll second that, but it would definitely be a new mount version. Think of KAF2 for instance.

03-27-2020, 04:47 AM	#153
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I already knew what KAF2 means, and it's quite evident from my post; I also know what I wrote, and properly read what you wrote. The point you are ignoring is that the same KAF2 had different "minor versions". Adding a pin would not definitely give us KAF5. It might, but then Ricoh Imaging would unnecessarily have to explain compatibility.

03-27-2020, 05:02 AM - 1 Like	#154
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Kunzite Nope; a short flange distance mirrorless mount, by definition, will not be K-mount. Whatever they decide to call it. They could call it the turnip mount. The KAF4 has the flexibility, like the EOS mount, for incremental improvements over time. The next mount will be a short distance one.

03-27-2020, 05:26 AM - 1 Like	#155
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Wheatfield Whatever they decide to call it. They could call it the turnip mount. The KAF4 has the flexibility, like the EOS mount, for incremental improvements over time. The next mount will be a short distance one. Yes, that's precisely the point I was making.

03-27-2020, 07:54 AM - 3 Likes	#157
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by thibs The Lens. For me, strictly personnal. I won't have a focus by wire crap, ever. Only idiots never change their mind, I know I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties.

03-27-2020, 08:26 AM - 1 Like	#158
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by phoebus There's nothing to prevent the current data pin being driven at higher speeds for compatible body/lens combinations, and maintain current speeds for older lens. You don't [need to] add pins to make data go faster. You don't even need to call it a different mount, camera and lens could just silently adjust to the fastest capability. For all we know, that might have already happened - hence backward capability of KAF4 may be physically limited by the data transmission electronics of the older cameras. Just compare to the USB speeds - same connector (for 1.0 to 2.0, 3.0+ does add pins but still backwards compatible), many different standards: 1.5 Mb/s for version 1.0 to 20 Gb/s for version 3.2, but you can still plug USB 1.0 device into USB 3.2 socket and it will work at 1.5 Mb/s. Yeah, but the port is still called USB 3.2. SD cards, on the other hand, added extra pins for a certain someone's beloved standard, while still being SD cards and maintaining backwards compatibility.

03-27-2020, 08:39 AM - 5 Likes	#159
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	Originally posted by zzeitg Considering the total price of the () lens, would it be much more expensive to implement the mechanical aperture lever, too? (Like in case of the DA problematic lenses. SDM motor dead -> converting to screwdrive saves the lens AF.) This is so odd. If the DA* SDM lenses of the first generation have taught something: if you add complexity like the dual focus mechanisms it is more prone to failure than a single reliable system. The number of people ready to spend more than 1500 € on a modern lens capable of delivering sharpness in the corners wide open with the intention to mainly use it cropped on a low resolution camera from ten years ago might not be very large and Ricoh has my full understanding if those are not a prioritised target group.

03-27-2020, 08:56 AM - 1 Like	#160
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by acoufap I see, no way to change your mind. Let me tell you I also prefer real mechanic focus but the DA55-300PLM‘s by wire doesn‘t work that bad ... and I see it as a minor issue compared to the lenses’ many positive properties. Of course, and amongst them the quickest Pentax zoom lens AF ever.

03-27-2020, 09:37 AM	#162
UlrichSchiegg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 298	Originally posted by Kunzite OTOH this is likely the last evolution of the K-mount. They can change focus motors, update communication protocols to some extent, even adding in-lens stabilisation; but there should be no need for a KAF 5 Aircraft industry was moving from Mechanical to Electrical to Optical information transmittal, and who knows what comes afterwards. Shape memory materials in lenses? The future is hard to imagine.

03-27-2020, 10:01 AM	#163
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Pentax, please stop pointless discussions and deliver the lens.

03-27-2020, 10:28 AM - 12 Likes	#164
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	^ Judging by this thread, pointless discussions come more from Pentaxians than from Pentax...

03-27-2020, 11:53 AM - 1 Like	#165
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I was skeptical to it at first. The truth is that the 55-300PLM is the best ever Pentax lens when factors such as performance, convenience, size, weight and price are being taken into consideration.... That sums it up well - and we can even combine it with DA TC1.4x and get 420mm in a compact package.