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06-06-2020, 05:30 AM - 2 Likes   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kobie Quote
Great minds think alike! This is practically the exact same thing I mentioned in my reaction video after seeing the Pentax update.

RANT!!!!!! State of Pentax PT 5. Update on the 2020 APS-C Camera and triple lens threat - YouTube
Kudos for taking the effort to go to sharing your thoughts on YT. I disagree with you, Pentax do not need to tell you anything about an upcoming product other than what they wish to release. If that rankles, fair enough but to suggest that it will mean a segment of APSC users will jump ship because they don't get the horsepower figures or an indication of horsepower figures? no that is your opinion only. Based on the information available, we pretty much know the sensor to be used, we can work out the form factor, we know about the OVF, we can speculate on the why's and what the drivers for an oversized OVF are (I'll give you a speculative hint, typically the Flagships (K-3II, K-1, 645Z) share an underlying architecture, ie, processing engine, af module - so an OVF that is oversized for APSC, could allow a wider AF module, which will suit the K-1 series replacement perfectly, ie reuse the architecture across the different formats.

06-06-2020, 06:09 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I think that Ricoh developed the perfect solution to the onboard flash dilemma some 30 years ago. I have two Ricoh XR-M film cameras. I also have the Speedlight PX that attaches to the camera. You simply clip it to the side of the side of the camera flip up the flash and go from there. TTL too. It is really handy and mounting it does not change how you use the camera. To some it may look a bit hokey, but it works quite well and weighs practically nothing. Uses the camera's batteries. Just a little bigger than a Bic lighter. . My XRM cameras served me well over the years.


The photo shows XR-X which is the camera's European designation.

Olympus XA - 1979-1985 - had a similar idea.
Wikipedia Image

Last edited by monochrome; 06-06-2020 at 09:33 PM.
06-06-2020, 06:09 AM - 3 Likes   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
an OVF that is oversized for APSC, could allow a wider AF module, which will suit the K-1 series replacement perfectly, ie reuse the architecture across the different formats.
I don't think it has to do with the AF module*, since it seems the extra magnification comes from improvements to the eyepiece/pentaprism (and the AF module is below the mirror)- but if they can increase the magnification without sacrificing brightness in a format, they can do the same with a larger format. This might lead to a 0.77x OVF in the next FF camera, which would be AFAIK the largest DSLR OVF.


I agree with all the other points; the sensor is almost certainly going to be one of the already-in-use 24 or 26MP Sony BSI sensors (so excellent), they will have an improved frame rate and buffer, there will be improvements made to the AF system and... that's it. I mean, it's a Pentax DSLR. The IQ of 10 year old models is still pretty darn good, ergonomics are the best in the market, the lenses are independent of this specific body. What else do people want?


*That isn't to say the AF module won't see its coverage increased, I just don't think it's necessarily linked to the OVF mag.
06-06-2020, 06:12 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Kudos for taking the effort to go to sharing your thoughts on YT. I disagree with you, Pentax do not need to tell you anything about an upcoming product other than what they wish to release. If that rankles, fair enough but to suggest that it will mean a segment of APSC users will jump ship because they don't get the horsepower figures or an indication of horsepower figures? no that is your opinion only. Based on the information available, we pretty much know the sensor to be used, we can work out the form factor, we know about the OVF, we can speculate on the why's and what the drivers for an oversized OVF are (I'll give you a speculative hint, typically the Flagships (K-3II, K-1, 645Z) share an underlying architecture, ie, processing engine, af module - so an OVF that is oversized for APSC, could allow a wider AF module, which will suit the K-1 series replacement perfectlY, ie reuse the architecture across the different formats.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

06-06-2020, 06:19 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I think that Ricoh developed the perfect solution to the onboard flash dilemma some 30 years ago. I have two Ricoh XR-M film cameras. I also have the Speedlight PX that attaches to the camera. You simply clip it to the side of the side of the camera flip up the flash and go from there. TTL too. It is really handy and mounting it does not change how you use the camera. To some it may look a bit hokey, but it works quite well and weighs practically nothing. Uses the camera's batteries. Just a little bigger than a Bic lighter. . My XRM cameras served me well over the years.


The photo shows XR-X which is the camera's European designation.
I had no idea about this (or @monochrome's Olympus example, for that matter). That's a nice side (hah!) step to the issue, but with all the ports that we have nowadays on the left side it might be tricky to have it in such a way. I personally would like it if Ricoh supplied something like the (speak of the devil) Olympus micro flash for their Pen series:

Of course this one has the electronic connector that makes it exclusive to the Oly cameras, but I think the idea works very well.
06-06-2020, 06:27 AM - 2 Likes   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I don't think it has to do with the AF module*, since it seems the extra magnification comes from improvements to the eyepiece/pentaprism (and the AF module is below the mirror)- but if they can increase the magnification without sacrificing brightness in a format, they can do the same with a larger format. This might lead to a 0.77x OVF in the next FF camera, which would be AFAIK the largest DSLR OVF.

*That isn't to say the AF module won't see its coverage increased, I just don't think it's necessarily linked to the OVF mag.
I was speculating, it is News and Rumours after all
I may be wrong, I may be right, we'll see soon enough. I wasn't linking it to the magnification, more the ovf area overlay on which the AF module is fitted.
06-06-2020, 06:46 AM - 2 Likes   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
I was speculating, it is News and Rumours after all
I may be wrong, I may be right, we'll see soon enough. I wasn't linking it to the magnification, more the ovf area overlay on which the AF module is fitted.
Oh, that absolutely, I agree . I guess the after lunch coffee didn't kick in, I read "oversized OVF" and thought about the magnification instead of the OVF overlay showing a wider AF frame .

Still, K-1iii with even bigger OVF and better AF coverage? I wouldn't change my K-1 for any other model, but that's an enticing prospect for an upgrade down the road...

06-06-2020, 06:54 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Kudos for taking the effort to go to sharing your thoughts on YT.
I'd have replaced YT by PF, except there are no thoughts, only negative reactions in this video.
PF, a forum where technerds should know this is not the place to moan.
06-06-2020, 07:15 AM - 9 Likes   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kobie Quote
my reaction video after seeing the Pentax update.
I guess there can be various impressions of the development update presentation. While you seem to be pleased with the information about the new lenses, your take on the camera's update seems to range from an eye-rolling RANT!!!!!! to "complete disaster" to "man oh man!!!! ...absolutely ridiculous." The basis for your negativity is not obvious -- are you in dire need of this new camera?

I was genuinely happy to watch Ricoh's presentation, and was surprised by the positive things that were included in the update. My overall impression is that the camera continues its development, refinement and testing, and that it will be introduced in the not-too-distant future.

I think that if I had attended such a presentation in person, I would have thanked the presenters, congratulated them on their ongoing developments, and mentioned my pleasure in using Pentax equipment.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 06-06-2020 at 09:44 AM.
06-06-2020, 07:23 AM - 7 Likes   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I guess there can be various impressions of the development update presentation. While you seem to be pleased with the information about the new lenses, your take on the camera's update seems to range from an eye-rolling RANT!!!!!! to "complete disaster" to a "man oh man!!!! ...absolutely ridiculous." The basis for your negativity is not obvious -- are you in dire need for this new camera?

I was genuinely happy to watch Ricoh's presentation, and was surprised by the positive things that were included in the update. My overall impression is that the camera continues its development, refinement and testing, and that it will be introduced in the not-too-distant future.

I think that if I had attended such a presentation in person, I would have thanked the presenters, congratulated them on their ongoing developments, and mentioned my pleasure in using Pentax equipment.

- Craig
The people actually doing the work have such a different demeanour than the critics on the forum. It was so nice seeing people actually working to put out product and make Pentax better, as opposed to the know it all detractors who all know what Pentax is doing wrong.

Last edited by normhead; 06-06-2020 at 09:25 AM.
06-06-2020, 07:33 AM - 2 Likes   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I guess there can be various impressions of the development update presentation. While you seem to be pleased with the information about the new lenses, your take on the camera's update seems to range from an eye-rolling RANT!!!!!! to "complete disaster" to a "man oh man!!!! ...absolutely ridiculous." The basis for your negativity is not obvious -- are you in dire need for this new camera?

I was genuinely happy to watch Ricoh's presentation, and was surprised by the positive things that were included in the update. My overall impression is that the camera continues its development, refinement and testing, and that it will be introduced in the not-too-distant future.

I think that if I had attended such a presentation in person, I would have thanked the presenters, congratulated them on their ongoing developments, and mentioned my pleasure in using Pentax equipment.

- Craig
My thoughts on the matter would align with Craig's pretty much. Taking Japanese business culture into account, that was a pretty relaxed and open presentation. It is my observation, that unlike some cultures, they are not really into hyperbole and can come across as pretty dry, exception being their torture game shows
Also, 2 of the 3 are not marketeers, they were engineering focused, so will not be used to giving presentations or want to do that, which may account for the forced reading, the other thing may be as engineers, if you get them talking, they won't want to stop and were probably kept on a tight leash as to not spill too much info out.
06-06-2020, 08:54 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I had no idea about this (or @monochrome's Olympus example, for that matter). That's a nice side (hah!) step to the issue, but with all the ports that we have nowadays on the left side it might be tricky to have it in such a way. I personally would like it if Ricoh supplied something like the (speak of the devil) Olympus micro flash for their Pen series:

Of course this one has the electronic connector that makes it exclusive to the Oly cameras, but I think the idea works very well.
Minolta had a tiny flash like that, but if I remember right, it ran off a 3v lithium battery. I wish Pentax made a similar one that would act as a controller for external flashes...

Sometimes I just need a tiny pop of light for fill, and the built-ins are great for that...

-Eric
06-06-2020, 10:05 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I guess there can be various impressions of the development update presentation. While you seem to be pleased with the information about the new lenses, your take on the camera's update seems to range from an eye-rolling RANT!!!!!! to "complete disaster" to "man oh man!!!! ...absolutely ridiculous." The basis for your negativity is not obvious -- are you in dire need of this new camera?

I was genuinely happy to watch Ricoh's presentation, and was surprised by the positive things that were included in the update. My overall impression is that the camera continues its development, refinement and testing, and that it will be introduced in the not-too-distant future.

I think that if I had attended such a presentation in person, I would have thanked the presenters, congratulated them on their ongoing developments, and mentioned my pleasure in using Pentax equipment.

- Craig
Considering I was squealing in excitement with the 21 Limited I'm fairly certain I would be ridiculously overjoyed to attend the presentation in person.


Regarding the camera, it will be here when it's here, and most of the specs can be guessed within a reasonable range anyway: it won't be worse than the K-3ii and it won't be miles better than the competition either. Being mad in advance doesn't do anything.

---------- Post added 06-06-20 at 10:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote

Sometimes I just need a tiny pop of light for fill, and the built-ins are great for that...

-Eric
Yep. I understand that a GPS has more value for a "serious" photographer that could conceivably want better flashes than the pop-up, and largely agree that for field cameras it's hands down the better option (Astrotracer is a good selling point and having an integrated GPS helps a lot with it!), but making a (very) small flash unit would be a welcome idea. I was *this* close to getting a Metz 26 for pocketable convenience, but I found a 48 for even less money so I went for the big bad one... but I'll probably end up getting a 26 anyway if I find it again at a decent price, the 48 is too bulky to see use in a typical photo walk.

Last edited by Serkevan; 06-06-2020 at 10:11 AM.
06-06-2020, 03:29 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
The photo shows XR-X which is the camera's European designation.
I have used a XRX, too, quite a lot of years. Was a great camera, for its time. The plastics of the case were not the best, but technically, a great camera.
06-06-2020, 07:31 PM   #180
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Instead of replying to every person who belittled me regarding my video, you've clearly missed the point I was making.
Let me clear up some confusion.
1) Yes, I have been waiting for this camera because depending on what it brings to the table, it will be my next purchase. I'm an APS-C shooter so I don't have an interest in Full Frame.
2) I don't live in Japan. I live in North America. Yes Japanese culture is different than the culture here, I do understand that. But as a GLOBAL business, they need to recognize that what works in Japan, doesn't mean it will work elsewhere. Marketing is Marketing, you have to play to your global market. Sony does an incredible job of that, Nikon does a great job of it as well as Canon, even Olympus and Panasonic and FujiFilm, but wait? How can that be if they're all Japanese companies?
3) The point of my video wasn't to thrash Pentax being a bad brand, they aren't. It's the Marketing. There is so much speculation about the camera, dwindling camera market share, BIG YouTube influencers (you may not care about that, but that's just the way things get sold and marketed now days, it's what MOST of the population listens to for buying decisions) that keep saying Pentax is next to vanish and it's due to no new camera announcements (which would include even basic specs on the camera).
My video was regarding the frustration that Pentax can do better marketing than this, they have in the past. But you can't rely on what works for you in one region thinking it will apply to all regions. It just doesn't work that way. Sure the extra 3mm on the OVF may make the camera a tad more comfortable, they're going to use new glass for the viewfinder and increase the magnification. That's great! But for an actual update on a camera that has plenty of eyes and ears open for it, those updates from any other brand would have been left to silence because AF, new processors, faster read/write speeds, buffer limit, burst rate and duration, hell, even just which sensor is going in there plus countless other things are worthwhile announcements when it comes to marketing a product and getting people excited about what's coming. Unless their plan is not to increase market share/get new customers. Who knows. But as I said, Marketing is Marketing no matter how you slice it. When you're a global company, you need to have an understanding of your global reach.
But hey, just like any form of edutainment, not everyone will like it, or get it and I understand that. But thanks for watching either way.

Last edited by Kobie; 06-07-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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