[Serkevan]

When Nikon released the D500, its price was actually slightly higher than the full-frame D610.

Indeed, when the D500 came out the D610 was cheaper. Both had exactly the same MRSP of $1999 actually, though.
The Canon 7Dii however was slightly cheaper than the decidedly entry level 6D (MRSP of 1799 vs 2099).

The key difference is that the K-1 came in at $1799 in 2016 (And the Mark II at $1999 in 2018). The 6Dii came in at $1999 the year after, and there's just no comparison between the two.

Now it might make commercial sense to push the price of the K-New up, but it's going to mark a shift in Pentax body pricing for sure. Pentax has had us spoiled so far

[normhead]

I am sorry m4/3 has had that feel for a while now, and it is practically dead.

The way 4/3 was implemented was a complete cash grab. Not as capable gear for more money.

Well, if the "only" advantages of APS-C is bird shooting (well I know there are few others), then you know targeted segmented is rather small.

Full frame or APS-c, you be the judge. - PentaxForums.com
Amuse yer selves.... format wars.. - PentaxForums.com

APS-c is lighter and more functional for 95% of what I do.. Most people don't even see a difference in their images at the size they most often view them, not even in resolution. If you reduce the size of an image, you also reduce the resolution. It doesn't matter what format you shoot at for 3840x2160 viewing, there's practically no difference at all.

Shooting birds with a 4 FPS with a 6 shot buffer is excruciating. Shooting 8 FPS with at 23 shot buffer by comparison is an absolute joy.

Years of experience has shown me that the rate at which people like my images is not used on the format I used to shoot it. Even in areas like you'd expect. Last summer I shot many sunsets beside my wife with her K-5, me with my K-1. The results for anything we've made use of are identical. There might be some theoretical situation where we blow the images up to 60x40 inches where it might make a difference. People always claim it's true, but they can never show us an example.

[FozzFoster]

I kind of hope it's called a 'K-3 III', anyone else?

[thibs]

I kind of hope it's called a 'K-3 III', anyone else?

Not a chance IMO
It would suggest it'd be a simple K3 upgrade which it isn't at all.

---

Last edited by thibs; 07-14-2020 at 02:26 PM.

[thibs]

I think 1500 seems a bit high but not unreasonable if it has d500 level autofocus and fps. If not perhaps a little bit less ~1300.

I wonder if I should laugh or cry for you in a couple months.
Not that it is my hope, it is not. But I really think you (and others, just that I'm replying to your post) are not realistic at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to be surprised (if you were to be right). But I really can't see how they'd do it.

Just my opinion.

[gatorguy]

The way 4/3 was implemented was a complete cash grab. Not as capable gear for more money.



Full frame or APS-c, you be the judge. - PentaxForums.com
Amuse yer selves.... format wars.. - PentaxForums.com

APS-c is lighter and more functional for 95% of what I do.. Most people don't even see a difference in their images at the size they most often view them, not even in resolution. .

Norm, I did a photo shoot on Saturday and carrying one K-70 and one K-1. I had fully expected the FF to carry the day and the APS-C doing back up. That wasn't the result. The most compelling and cleanest images came from the K-70.

I've been receiving really good feedback from my portrait work. The misses were getting fewer and the hits much more frequent, and yet this shoot was mildly disappointing. So now I'm reconsidering my gear for the next shoot in about three weeks. I'll still carry the K-1 but may go back to leaning more heavily on my crop cameras. Practice and practice in the meantime.

FWIW I still like the feel and heft and controls of the K-1, and my FA's perform much better with it than on my K-70's too., Heck I came close to selling off the 31, but now in the K1 it shines brighter. Maybe it's just not the portrait panacea I was expecting, but I'm definitely going to keep trying. Perhaps it was just an off day, it happens. Certainly didn't help to have a Godox V1 and trigger fail midway thru.

To say I'm looking forward to what Pentax will bring with the K-new is an understatement. You're right that the differences between crop and full-frame images are not as pronounced as I might have originally expected.

[house]

Considering the recent marketing material from Pentax I think they view FF and apsc as part of the same system. Remember that confusing weight/reach thing with various combinations of FF and apsc? Also that film with the landscape nature photographer, the one who does the moody tree shots. He had a KP as a second body and was shown quickly switching cameras for a specific shot.

I'm guessing the market is also such that a few (probably old considering only old people have money these days) people buy lots of gear. Having several niche bodies on offer might get them to buy several cameras. I mean how many people on here have multiple systems? Seems like quite a few. That could become several Pentax cameras.

Lots of people have also bought into the marketing idea that everything has to have a very specific function. You can't go running in your basketball shorts etc. I'm guessing Pentax will try to exploit this.

[Serkevan]

You can't go running in your basketball shorts etc.

Of course you can't.For running, you are supposed to use football shorts. Or cycling shorts. Basketball shorts are for handball!

[boriscleto]

decidedly entry level 6D

But how many people think owning one makes them a pro?

[boriscleto]

Shooting birds with a 4 FPS with a 6 shot buffer is excruciating. Shooting 8 FPS with at 23 shot buffer by comparison is an absolute joy.

This...

[bobbotron]

Not a chance IMO
It would suggest it'd be a simple K3 upgrade which it isn't at all.

I bet the next K3 (replacement) is going to be really expensive. Anyone that wants it for $1200 isn't being at all realistic!

[Fontan]

The way 4/3 was implemented was a complete cash grab. Not as capable gear for more money.



Full frame or APS-c, you be the judge. - PentaxForums.com
Amuse yer selves.... format wars.. - PentaxForums.com

APS-c is lighter and more functional for 95% of what I do.. Most people don't even see a difference in their images at the size they most often view them, not even in resolution. If you reduce the size of an image, you also reduce the resolution. It doesn't matter what format you shoot at for 3840x2160 viewing, there's practically no difference at all.

Shooting birds with a 4 FPS with a 6 shot buffer is excruciating. Shooting 8 FPS with at 23 shot buffer by comparison is an absolute joy.

Years of experience has shown me that the rate at which people like my images is not used on the format I used to shoot it. Even in areas like you'd expect. Last summer I shot many sunsets beside my wife with her K-5, me with my K-1. The results for anything we've made use of are identical. There might be some theoretical situation where we blow the images up to 60x40 inches where it might make a difference. People always claim it's true, but they can never show us an example.

But that is exactly what I’m saying. There may well be “advantages” of APS-C, or even the lack thereof of FF. It’s the same deal as comparing cameras of today to those from few years ago. The differences are minuscule. Worse yet, consider this crazy fact. There was a blind comparison of shots wide open between Leica Noctilux 50/.95 ($12,500) vs. TT Artisan 50/.95 ($800). 2/3 of so called self described Leica experts/diehards got it wrong. You mentioned m3/4 being a money grab but so is everything else, literally. After all it looks like they tricked you into buying a K-1!.

I seriously doubt Pentax has a blind devotion to bird shooters, and the reason they are plugging on with APS-c is because they think there is money to be made, or that this is the only way they could survive. Seemingly, the shrinking DSLR/mirrorless market (as opposed to compacts and cellphone cams) is leaning towards FF, and despite minuscule differences the marketing of it is that they want you to buy FF, as it got you (and me). At this stage, APSC is a niche, especially an advanced level APS-C feels like to me like beating a dead horse. I just don’t see how they can get away with it by selling above two grand. This is forever accentuated by the death of m3/4 for sure.

I won’t argue that a killer state of the art APSC can compete against a FF set up, especially with those awesome DA Ltds. But if they bet on that - they may hurt the upcoming FF by having to push up the pricing of it.

Me personally, I got DA 15, 35, 40, 55 more or less collecting dust (actually, I use 35 macro ltd quite a bit on K-1 still). and would consider a stellar APS-C body if priced to my liking but not at $2,000 or more. At $1,500 I may (probably not). For around 2K I bet you can get a dying but brand new OM-D and a couple of killer tele’s, and I bet you would be pressed to tell the difference between that and K-5 in terms of IQs etc.

[normhead]

After all it looks like they tricked you into buying a K-1!.

As I've many times explained, I was owed pension money, I got a wad, the K-1 wasn't quarter of it. It was a "Well alt's see how old it is." And I admit there are times I appreciate it. Bu without that strange turn of events, I would never have bought ti. I'm not sure I've mentioned it while you're here, but I spendnt years disputing the value of Full Frame on the "It really doesn't matter much" side. Since getting the K-1 my opinion side. I use today 90% of what you can do with full frame I can dod with my K-3. My opinion hasn't changed, but I do appreciate the extra 10% that shows up on rare occasion.

and I bet you would be pressed to tell the difference between that and K-5 in terms of IQs etc.

There's a caveat there though. I find 2 formats is noticeable. So though a k-5 and 4/3 may be close and a K-5 and K-1 may be close, the difference between 4/3 and a K-1 should be easily discernible. And the difference between my 1 inch sensor ZS100 and my K-3 is easily discernible.

[monochrome]

K-1 II is $1,800 at BH. I get APS-C is a different market, and yes K-1 II is relatively speaking outdated. But - when the new APS-C comes out costing near $2,000, I would think that some prospective buyers of the new APS-C will stop in their tracks and ponder maybe for a fleeting moment. When I look at my files shot with my K-1, not K-1 II, I see zero need to upgrade, at all. I also get that these folks with DA lenses only without having no FF lenses and their needs - but pricing the flagship APS-C higher than the market price of existing FF model seems very counterintuitive and counterproductive.

Actually, in September the choice matrix for a new Pentax DSLR will be robust. K-new is step 1 in the transition to the new Pentax DSLR architecture. K-new will showcase most all the new tech - and the fundamentally redesigned imaging logic - that will be added to the FF [EDIT] maybe 51MP camera that replaces K-1 ll in 2021. There may be a surprise coming on the next FF that isn’t ready yet which will change everything.

If you want a fast Sports / Action / Birding camera with better than acceptable video you buy a K-new. If you want a somewhat slower, higher resolution field / studio camera for the DFA*50/1.4 and DFA*85/1.4 (and eventually DFA*35/1,.4), you wait a year and buy the (maybe) $2,300 FF or two years and buy the (maybe) next 645 (or vice versa). If you want a generalist camera or don’t want to pay $1,800 +/- plus sales tax, you buy KP or K-70 or K-1 ll and live with old tech. That’s five choices including 645z !!!

Lenses are lenses. They’re independent of cameras (except old DA designs that vignette on FF). You buy what you can afford that will give what you need. There will be several new lenses in both formats over the next two years, many / most of them Ricoh designs. If you can’t afford * lenses buy the next best lens that fits your budget but don’t complain about that.

It’s just choices. I can either do the 85 or the 21 Limited. At the moment I’m waiting for the 21. I’ll can either do K-new orr K-next FF. At the moment I’m waiting for the FF. I don’t need the new 16-50 or 50-135 because FF is my choice. I don’t need the DA70-210/4 because keeping FA*80-200/2.8 is my choice. Carrying mass is my choice.

Etc.

[MarkJerling]

.....K-new will showcase most all the new tech - and the fundamentally redesigned imaging logic - that will be added to the FF 51MP camera that replaces K-1 ll in 2021.....

Source?