[ehrwien]

Interesting. Just curious how a lens correction profile can improve sharpness.

I guess it's a mixed bag, depending on the distortion of the lens. The distortion correction process would result in some areas of the image being slightly stretched and others slightly compressed. The latter could improve the perception of sharpness in that area. The former, however, will result in some additional blur in the affected areas. Next to that, removing colour aberrations that are especially visible on the edges of subjects, would probably increase perception of edge sharpness and improve contrasty texture?
Hence I can see a profile can improve things, though I think it would be limited to subtle changes only... A blurry lens will never become razor sharp thanks to a profile. At least I have never seen this... My DA21/3.2 in any case doesn't noticeably improve after application of the Lightroom lens profile.

I just processed a picture with different correction settings and compared those to the OOC JPG with Bright Setting (Sharpness and Contrast +2 instead of the profile's standard +1; "standard" Sharpness, not Fine Sharpness), Distortion Correction and CA Correction enabled.

I think I got fooled by the comparison to the unprocessed (and thus unsharpened) RAW in DxO (which is what is shown when using the comparison function) instead of to the embedded JPG when playing with the lens sharpness setting (which is only available when there's a correction profile for the lens). I found a massive difference between enabling and disabling the lens sharpness setting, but little to no difference when comparing the result of lens sharpness to the OOC JPG. I guess in the end the same result as with the lens sharpness can be achieved with other methods of sharpening, although I think it's more sophisticated to offer a "lazier" approach to sharpening, and it just boils down to how much sharpening is applied and personal tastes.

Distortion Correction didn't seem to make much of a difference, but CA correction helped a bit in creating an impression of more sharpness.

[Smolk]

Good summary.

Just to clarify, for the reasons above I'm not considering buying a DFA 21mm, I already have the DA 21mm and 20-40mm. I just want to keep abreast of things.

So despite having the 20-40mm which is faster at 20mm than the 21mm is (albeit marginally), and WR, you keep the 21mm along?
I have the 21mm which is a beauty to behold. I haven't tested it critically yet because I can't really edit at the moment. If the zoom would be on a par, the only reason to keep the 21mm would be its very compactness.
(I'm wondering whether to go for the limited zoom, as I'm guessing from previous experiences that I will find the 16-50mm too heavy. I used the FA 645 4.5/45-85mm on a Pentax 645N, and while its quality was really good, I used it less and less due to weight concerns; about the weight of the DA* 16-50mm. Of course, this was with a substantially heavier body.)

[TwoUptons]

I got a 20-40 instead of the 21 because, though I wanted a Limited, I also want this FF DFA21, and I didn’t need two 21mm lenses…
I may have still been redundant, though, as I also have the DA40

I also have the first-gen 16-50 DA* and find it very good, but the 20-40 has been staying on the KP because of the size…

There’s a lot to be said about the 16mm end of the 16-50, though… it’s very good if I need it.
And for architecture, the 16-50 is better than the 20-40… mostly because of the wide.

When the DFA 21 shows up, it will hopefully be a great companion for the 28-105 on travel.
Right now I have a vintage Tokina 20-35, but it’s just not as strong as the 28-105 optically.

-Eric

[house]

I forgot about the Sony compact lenses for a while. Dpreview have a thing about them again. The 24mm has mtf like this and costs less than $600



They are compact and nicely built (though of course not as nice as Pentax ltd's) A real sign of others filling the same niche as the limiteds, Sigma has of course been doing the same. They seem to have dual plm motors which is of course fast focussing and silent.

I think this is really tough for Pentax. The price of the cameras can to a certain extent be excused by the prism and mechanical parts. It's much more difficult to price the lenses way beyond the competition at similar optical performance. Perhaps the DFA21 won't be very expensive but considering the price of the old FA ltd's I expect it to be. Sony people seem to consider these expensive for what they are...

---

Last edited by house; 08-16-2021 at 08:16 AM.

[biz-engineer]

We often get involuntary/unintentional leaks (ouppssss you see what I mean ) of pictures and specifications around September/October. Keep your eyes and google translate from Mandarin/Chinese (or Japanese) to English, open.

[repaap]

I forgot about the Sony compact lenses for a while. Dpreview have a thing about them again. The 24mm has mtf like this and costs less than $600



They are compact and nicely built (though of course not as nice as Pentax ltd's) A real sign of others filling the same niche as the limiteds, Sigma has of course been doing the same. They seem to have dual plm motors which is of course fast focussing and silent.

I think this is really tough for Pentax. The price of the cameras can to a certain extent be excused by the prism and mechanical parts. It's much more difficult to price the lenses way beyond the competition at similar optical performance. Perhaps the DFA21 won't be very expensive but considering the price of the old FA ltd's I expect it to be. Sony people seem to consider these expensive for what they are...

Umm, you do realise that 24/2.8 is quite a bit more easy to do? Closer alternative would be 20/1.8, which is mirrorless desing anyway.

I really do wonder why you kerp on bringin these up every time? It is not going to work with Pentax camera, it will with Sony.

[Zygonyx]

Moreover i doubt Dpreview is testing those lenses prior to internal camera's file processing... i.e. not "backed" raw files.

[house]

Umm, you do realise that 24/2.8 is quite a bit more easy to do? Closer alternative would be 20/1.8, which is mirrorless desing anyway.

I really do wonder why you kerp on bringin these up every time? It is not going to work with Pentax camera, it will with Sony.

I don't think Pentax can live in it's own bubble of pricing and performance so It's interesting to see similar products from other brands. Sure 21 and 24 is different. The design intent is *a bit* similar to, and they are geared towards similar types of photography as, the Pentax Limiteds. This is quite new with only Fuji and Voightlander traditionally occupying that space with Pentax. Price and performance becomes very interesting because it helps you gauge how well Pentax will do.

Perhaps we are seeing the ideas expressed by that exec or whatever he was that was interviewed in the car magazine. Not chasing specs or competitive pricing. There was always the risk of this turning into products for collectors. Partially economies of scale will push Pentax a bit into this path anyway. I enjoy Pentax build quality but if the products turn into build without performance at collectors prices I'm hesitant to tag along.

[pres589]

The Sony 24mm "compact" seems kind of interesting, like a Sigma Super-Wide II AF for 2021. Real tests and image samples will help tell the story more thoroughly.

The 40 and 50 mm lenses that came with it are kind of... not interesting to me in comparison. A 50 that large shouldn't be that slow. A 40 that slow shouldn't be nearly so large. I have a hard time believing many copies of either lens will really sell.

It's like mirrorless designers had so many years producing large by heavy lenses that they do not have the skills to quickly put together something small like what we're still used to here with glass like the DA 40's, FA 43, or FA 50 1.4 all available brand-new today.

[house]

The 40 and 50 mm lenses that came with it are kind of... not interesting to me in comparison. A 50 that large shouldn't be that slow. A 40 that slow shouldn't be nearly so large. I have a hard time believing many copies of either lens will really sell.

It's like mirrorless designers had so many years producing large by heavy lenses that they do not have the skills to quickly put together something small like what we're still used to here with glass like the DA 40's, FA 43, or FA 50 1.4 all available brand-new today.

Haha... very true. They call lenses compact that are actually quite chunky! I Guess we dslr users have our sweet spot for compactness around standard so it makes some sense that their standard lenses be bigger. Saying that our high performance fifty is quite the beast regardless what brand or viewfinder type.

[Serkevan]

Haha... very true. They call lenses compact that are actually quite chunky! I Guess we dslr users have our sweet spot for compactness around standard so it makes some sense that their standard lenses be bigger. Saying that our high performance fifty is quite the beast regardless what brand or viewfinder type.

As a middle ground, the DA*55 works very decently on FF and it's not *that* chunky while being quite capable of taking gorgeous images from what I've seen.

[Kunzite]

I don't think Pentax can live in it's own bubble of pricing and performance so It's interesting to see similar products from other brands. Sure 21 and 24 is different. The design intent is *a bit* similar to, and they are geared towards similar types of photography as, the Pentax Limiteds. This is quite new with only Fuji and Voightlander traditionally occupying that space with Pentax. Price and performance becomes very interesting because it helps you gauge how well Pentax will do.

Perhaps we are seeing the ideas expressed by that exec or whatever he was that was interviewed in the car magazine. Not chasing specs or competitive pricing. There was always the risk of this turning into products for collectors. Partially economies of scale will push Pentax a bit into this path anyway. I enjoy Pentax build quality but if the products turn into build without performance at collectors prices I'm hesitant to tag along.

So what are you saying is that Pentax should price-match random Sony lenses you could think of?

There's no "the design intent is *a bit* similar to", as with the Sony it's just the esthetics, and vaguely. You're comparing apples with potato.
And... this isn't the place for promoting Sony.

[Sandy Hancock]

Why are we even discussing a Sony lens here? You have to compare apples with apples.

1) If I'm not mistaken, the short registration distance of mirrorless cameras makes compact wide angles easier to design. Anyway, 24/2.8 is not 21/x.x

2) The DFA*50 should be compared to lenses like the Zeiss Otus and Sigma Art. Compact is not an adjective which comes to mind.

Hopefully, we'll get final specifications in the not-too-distant future.

[edit]....and Kunzite beat me to the punch [/edit]

[repaap]

I don't think Pentax can live in it's own bubble of pricing and performance so It's interesting to see similar products from other brands. Sure 21 and 24 is different. The design intent is *a bit* similar to, and they are geared towards similar types of photography as, the Pentax Limiteds. This is quite new with only Fuji and Voightlander traditionally occupying that space with Pentax. Price and performance becomes very interesting because it helps you gauge how well Pentax will do.

Perhaps we are seeing the ideas expressed by that exec or whatever he was that was interviewed in the car magazine. Not chasing specs or competitive pricing. There was always the risk of this turning into products for collectors. Partially economies of scale will push Pentax a bit into this path anyway. I enjoy Pentax build quality but if the products turn into build without performance at collectors prices I'm hesitant to tag along.

Well it is not, 24/2.8 is and always has been a small lens. Even if you throw AF and weather sealing in it. As there is also old Sigma mini wide(old and new, which this Sony is compared to) it is pricey for what it is. I’d say that it has harder time to justify it self.

I know what you mean with Pentax’price bubble’ but you are say don’t like they should adjust to the ‘competition’ even with special product like this coming up DFA21limited ?

First of all they have to keep it in mind, but as it has happened Pentax is quite specific brand, it has been and it will be.

But all in all it is not -that much more- than it’s competition which is mostly mirrorless now a days any way. So even in those terms it is comparable but it is still more special.

If you want to compare, then you should bring 20/1.8(which is still not comparable but closer) in game where you see, other mirrorless brands are at and price is more than 1100€ for all of them, where actually Canon(who would love to build their own bubble) has not such lens for RF yet, but will be expensive and very fast. This is where ‘competition’ is heading and limiteds are where Pentax is staying and developing its system.

That is other kind of value, and this is one thing which will show in price and user base too

[gazonk]

seeing a lots of updates to this thread since last I checked, I opened it like a child opens a present, hoping for news about speed, price or release date… and then… discussion of Sony lenses?!?