[Parallax]

they probably hold back the actual aperture purposefully.

There could be another explanation. It's possible that they haven't decided what the max aperture is yet.
Let's say, for example, mathematically it's an f/2.7. Now they have a decision to make that may take some marketing research.
Which would appeal more to the masses; a traditional f/2.8 or a non conventional 2.7 (a la 43mm f/1.9)?
If they decide 2.8 is more appealing they still have a decision to make. Leave it as 2.7 but call it a 2.8 (hey, close enough) or limit the opening to an actual 2.8.
There may not be any secrecy here. They may not know the final specs and/or nomenclature.

[Kunzite]

Nope, cannot agree, not conflicting. I have a law degree and have taught in higher education ... there's a slight difference between a fact and a hope. I have to deal with facts. Unforgiving facts. Period.

It's fact that no one knows the maximum aperture of this new 21mm at its announcement (as opposed to the two other lenses where we were given the aperture information) ... and I hope more than most that they hit this one out of the ballpark, a major home run ... maybe with an aperture way below f/2.8.

And I would advance that a "roadmap" is always less specific by nature ... than an actual presentation image of the product with glowing accolades of what it will be able to do in the near future, once it is made and on sale.

Again, I find this product image woefully lacking essential information ... and as a general question to all : Has anyone ever seen another manufacturer product release in a similar way?

Facts... I'm a programmer, having to communicate with things completely lacking on common sense and capacity to make assumptions - I have to be precise in my thinking. I laugh at what other people are calling "facts".
Mentioning a law degree and higher education does not give you any bonus points.

No, it is not an established fact that "no one knows the maximum aperture of this 21mm at its announcement". There is a chance that Ricoh Imaging wanted some flexibility in this regard, perhaps discussing variants internally, but this isn't an information you are likely to have.
(yes, "no one" necessarily include Ricoh Imaging. You likely meant "no one here", or "no outsider without access to privileged information").

A real fact - not the "law degree, high education" variety: first teaser product images are very often (I won't say always, but should be close) accompanied with incomplete or even no specifications.
We're told 5 pieces of information about this lens: the focal length, that it's a D FA Limited, that it has a DC motor and it's weather sealed; as well as to expect it by the end of 2021. Quite good.

I cannot remember a single teaser campaign, of any camera company, where all the specs were released at the beginning. I cannot see how it would work - what would you release after that? We're talking about a lens a whole year away from its market launch.
Can you point out to a single one?

[Parallax]

There may not be any secrecy here. They may not know the final specs and/or nomenclature.

No, it is not an established fact that "no one knows the maximum aperture of this 21mm at its announcement". There is a chance that Ricoh Imaging wanted some flexibility in this regard, perhaps discussing variants internally, but this isn't an information you are likely to have.

Okay, Alex, that's a bit spooky.
Two very similar replies to two different posts and posted at exactly the same time.

[Serkevan]

Facts... I'm a programmer, having to communicate with things completely lacking on common sense and capacity to make assumptions - I have to be precise in my thinking. I laugh at what other people are calling "facts".
Mentioning a law degree and higher education does not give you any bonus points.

No, it is not an established fact that "no one knows the maximum aperture of this 21mm at its announcement". There is a chance that Ricoh Imaging wanted some flexibility in this regard, perhaps discussing variants internally, but this isn't an information you are likely to have.
(yes, "no one" necessarily include Ricoh Imaging. You likely meant "no one here", or "no outsider without access to privileged information").

A real fact - not the "law degree, high education" variety: first teaser product images are very often (I won't say always, but should be close) accompanied with incomplete or even no specifications.
We're told 5 pieces of information about this lens: the focal length, that it's a D FA Limited, that it has a DC motor and it's weather sealed; as well as to expect it by the end of 2021. Quite good.

I cannot remember a single teaser campaign, of any camera company, where all the specs were released at the beginning. I cannot see how it would work - what would you release after that? We're talking about a lens a whole year away from its market launch.
Can you point out to a single one?

Canon put out the RF roadmap with all or almost all the relevant information, but their lens specs are almost 100% streamlined for L glass (so electronic aperture, in-lens AF, weather sealed, metal construction are a given).

[Jean Poitiers]

Facts... I'm a programmer, having to communicate with things completely lacking on common sense and capacity to make assumptions - I have to be precise in my thinking. I laugh at what other people are calling "facts".
Mentioning a law degree and higher education does not give you any bonus points.

No, it is not an established fact that "no one knows the maximum aperture of this 21mm at its announcement". There is a chance that Ricoh Imaging wanted some flexibility in this regard, perhaps discussing variants internally, but this isn't an information you are likely to have.
(yes, "no one" necessarily include Ricoh Imaging. You likely meant "no one here", or "no outsider without access to privileged information").

A real fact - not the "law degree, high education" variety: first teaser product images are very often (I won't say always, but should be close) accompanied with incomplete or even no specifications.
We're told 5 pieces of information about this lens: the focal length, that it's a D FA Limited, that it has a DC motor and it's weather sealed; as well as to expect it by the end of 2021. Quite good.

I cannot remember a single teaser campaign, of any camera company, where all the specs were released at the beginning. I cannot see how it would work - what would you release after that? We're talking about a lens a whole year away from its market launch.
Can you point out to a single one?

Whatever, really whatever ... and here we go again ... and I am really tired of going back and forth with you ... so, let's just drop it, OK. I know that I am.

Let's just agree that we will never agree.

[normhead]

We're told 5 pieces of information about this lens: the focal length, that it's a D FA Limited, that it has a DC motor and it's weather sealed; as well as to expect it by the end of 2021. Quite good.

Ya, but the new APS-c doesn't have a tilting screen, even though all anyone has seen is a preproduction model and no official announcement has been made.

It would seem, much like everyone else, the rules for determining fact for you bend when it's for something you believe. Quit trying to convince us you have some magical ability to keep your biases out of it.

And when discussing the tilting back screen, you're just as arrogant as anyone else flouting assumptions they believe to be true.

You're no different. A 90% probablity is the same as fact in your mind. And your willingness to try and advance your argument by leaving out important information that doesn't support your case, differs not a bit from any number of forum trolls.

I don't see you the way you see yourself, I doubt anyone does.

[Kunzite]

Okay, Alex, that's a bit spooky.
Two very similar replies to two different posts and posted at exactly the same time.

The truth is out there!

OK, I guess we'll have to wait and see how much would the final product resemble the images we've seen.

[Zygonyx]

Will this 21mm Limited replace my SMC F17-28mm f/3.5-4.5 @21mm for landscaping, that's the question

[Kunzite]

Ya, but the new APS-c doesn't have a tilting screen, even though all anyone has seen is a preproduction model and no official announcement has been made.

It would seem, much like everyone else, the rules for determining fact for you bend when it's for something you believe. Quit trying to convince us you have some magical ability to keep your biases out of it.

And when discussing the tilting back screen, you're just as arrogant as anyone else flouting assumptions they believe to be true.

You're no different. A 90% probablity is the same as fact in your mind. And your willingness to try and advance your argument by leaving out important information that doesn't support your case, differs not a bit from any number of forum trolls.

I don't see you the way you see yourself, I doubt anyone does.

Norm, a friendly warning... don't try to start a war with me. I take no prisoners.

The 4 pieces of information I've mentioned for the D FA 21mm ED Limited WR are facts, communicated to us by Ricoh Imaging, in the presentation video.

And about the APS-C camera, it is a fact that neither of both prototypes presented have any sort of an articulated screen.

About the final product, I'm reasoning why it's highly unlikely it will have an articulated screen; I've seen no counterargument other than "but we didn't see the final product".
I will not accept negligible probability as being equal to high probability.

[Kunzite]

Canon put out the RF roadmap with all or almost all the relevant information, but their lens specs are almost 100% streamlined for L glass (so electronic aperture, in-lens AF, weather sealed, metal construction are a given).

Thank you, point taken.
I did say teasers, though. And - please correct me if I'm mistaken - Canon released "almost all the relevant information" for lenses they were going to release in the same year.

[Serkevan]

Thank you, point taken.
I did say teasers, though. And - please correct me if I'm mistaken - Canon released "almost all the relevant information" for lenses they were going to release in the same year.

Yep, I think they just put the lenses in the roadmap within half a year or so of release date. For the bodies they've been teasing the R5 and 1DXiii for a while.

[Parallax]

I don't see you the way you see yourself, I doubt anyone does.

Norm, I'm pretty sure that any person on the face of the earth could say that to any other person and be right.

Understand?

[BruceBanner]

Will this 21mm Limited replace my SMC F17-28mm f/3.5-4.5 @21mm for landscaping, that's the question

Nice shot!

I would guess the strengths of this lens lie in it's presumably fast aperture, that coupled with its fixed hood may make it somewhat a bad purchase for someone looking for straight up landscape use. The high price tag will be due to the fast aperture, and for landscape use this might not be a feature worth paying for. If f5.6-8 is your go to for landscape shots, and you enjoy filter use, then really this DFA 21 is starting to lose its appeal, forcing it to be something its not intended for per se. It's a little like buying a DFA 50 and shooting it always at f8. Sure it's a nice lens, but it's price tag is really slapped on so high for the performance at it's widest aperture, getting glass to being pretty decent for CA and edge sharpness at 1.4 is difficult.

[noelpolar]

Ok, I am going to come clean.... no doubt I will buy one at the near first opportuntiy when it arrives. I need a new pizza lens.

In my defence.... I recently built a 18 dozen bottle wine rack and filled it with wine.... so I feel as though it is only responsable of me at this time to feign some sort of future fiscal restraint.

[monochrome]

This lens will excel at something. Whatever that is, that’s what I’ll do.