D FA 21 Limited is one of the three.

Sandy Hancock · 07-02-2020, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Sandy: Don't forget the Ltd zoom which is both slower than f2 max aperture AND the aperture is variable.

I didn't forget; I just didn't specify. Like the other DA Limiteds, its widest aperture is slower than f/2.0, so my comment still stands

**travelswsage** · 07-03-2020, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by pres589

travels: Yes, indoor shooting would drive me to using a lens like that wide open once in a while. I've had to use my DA 15 wide open at its massive f4 to get large group shots. Glad that ISO 3200 is as viable as it is on modern digital cameras. This 21 would be a clear improvement.

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

Low light indoors.Environmental portraits.Astrophotography.Other things.

Cool -- thanks for the responses -- never thought of portraiture or indoor uses but makes perfect sense ...

beholder3 · 07-03-2020, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

Do folks really use a 21mm for wide open aperture? I'm a landscape guy so most shots will be at f5.6 and on. Is the desire for f1.8/2 for astrophotography? Just curious what folks will use the f1.8 of f2 for?

It is a niche application, but it happens. I have to say that due to problematic DoF I would not go lower than f/2.8 even for dark indoors. Extra grain then usually is preferable to major softness.

Sandy Hancock · 07-03-2020, 03:14 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by beholder3

I have to say that due to problematic DoF I would not go lower than f/2.8 even for dark indoors. Extra grain then usually is preferable to major softness.

When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open?
And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to.

**Serkevan** · 07-03-2020, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open?
And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to.

And even then, out of focus things are not soft... they are out of focus

beholder3 · 07-03-2020, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open?
And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to.

You misunderstood me. The softness I mentioned is because of things being not in the DoF.
Practical reference: When using my 12mm F2.8 lens in a cark cathedral, I usually still use F4 or F5.6 because I dislike the limited DoF softness in near areas. Even though it is 12mm it can become very visible.

zapp · 07-12-2020, 12:43 AM - **2 Likes**

Ever since the summilux-m 21 we know that f/1.4 is of high artistic value. Or even f/2 which will be closer to the final value for the be limited. It will most likely be one stop faster than the DA - and not slower. It will be perfect and hopefully starts a line of weather sealed, af motor inside Ltd glass(updates) for fixed focal lengths.

**fs999** · 11-17-2020, 02:57 AM

It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens.
All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap...
We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that...

someasiancameraguy · 11-17-2020, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by fs999

It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens.
All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap...
We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that...

Yeah, some more info on the aperture would be good to have.

**Serkevan** · 11-17-2020, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by fs999

It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens.
All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap...
We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that...

We know it's f/4 or wider, and the size tells us it's probably faster than f/2.8. While not ideal, it's better than not knowing anything I guess...

**Pål Jensen** · 11-17-2020, 05:08 AM

I doubt that it is faster than 2.8 based on the size of the front element

**Serkevan** · 11-17-2020, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I doubt that it is faster than 2.8 based on the size of the front element

The front element is about the size of the one on the FA 20/2.8 or Canon 20/2.8, and not much smaller than the one on the Nikon 20/1.8, though. Depending on optical design it's perfectly possible - the Irix 15/2.4 has a very small front element that compensates by being bulbous.

Mistral75 · 11-17-2020, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

(...) has a very small front element that compensates by being bulbous.

Hmmm... this is becoming slippery...

**Serkevan** · 11-17-2020, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Hmmm... this is becoming slippery...

Yeah, it's all speculation. Bottom line, *let me dream*

.
The silver one looks so good I need every reason I can to justify upgrading the M20/4

texandrews · 11-17-2020, 07:28 AM

I agree that it's indicative of "stupid marketing" not to inform the user base what the aperture range will be at this point.

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07-02-2020, 06:08 AM	#631
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by pres589 Sandy: Don't forget the Ltd zoom which is both slower than f2 max aperture AND the aperture is variable. I didn't forget; I just didn't specify. Like the other DA Limiteds, its widest aperture is slower than f/2.0, so my comment still stands

07-03-2020, 06:40 AM	#632
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385	Originally posted by pres589 travels: Yes, indoor shooting would drive me to using a lens like that wide open once in a while. I've had to use my DA 15 wide open at its massive f4 to get large group shots. Glad that ISO 3200 is as viable as it is on modern digital cameras. This 21 would be a clear improvement. Originally posted by Sandy Hancock Low light indoors.Environmental portraits.Astrophotography.Other things. Cool -- thanks for the responses -- never thought of portraiture or indoor uses but makes perfect sense ...

07-03-2020, 06:47 AM	#633
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by travelswsage Do folks really use a 21mm for wide open aperture? I'm a landscape guy so most shots will be at f5.6 and on. Is the desire for f1.8/2 for astrophotography? Just curious what folks will use the f1.8 of f2 for? It is a niche application, but it happens. I have to say that due to problematic DoF I would not go lower than f/2.8 even for dark indoors. Extra grain then usually is preferable to major softness.

07-03-2020, 03:14 PM - 2 Likes	#634
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by beholder3 I have to say that due to problematic DoF I would not go lower than f/2.8 even for dark indoors. Extra grain then usually is preferable to major softness. When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open? And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to.

07-03-2020, 03:54 PM	#635
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open? And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to. And even then, out of focus things are not soft... they are out of focus

07-03-2020, 11:13 PM	#636
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock When was the last time Pentax released a premium lens with "major softness" wide open? And ultra-wides have pretty forgiving depth of field by their very nature. It's nice to have the option of isolating the background if you want to. You misunderstood me. The softness I mentioned is because of things being not in the DoF. Practical reference: When using my 12mm F2.8 lens in a cark cathedral, I usually still use F4 or F5.6 because I dislike the limited DoF softness in near areas. Even though it is 12mm it can become very visible.

07-12-2020, 12:43 AM - 2 Likes	#637
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Ever since the summilux-m 21 we know that f/1.4 is of high artistic value. Or even f/2 which will be closer to the final value for the be limited. It will most likely be one stop faster than the DA - and not slower. It will be perfect and hopefully starts a line of weather sealed, af motor inside Ltd glass(updates) for fixed focal lengths.

11-17-2020, 02:57 AM	#638
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,639	It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens. All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap... We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that...

11-17-2020, 04:32 AM	#639
someasiancameraguy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 419	Originally posted by fs999 It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens. All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap... We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that... Yeah, some more info on the aperture would be good to have.

11-17-2020, 04:48 AM	#640
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by fs999 It is not understandable why Ricoh is hiding so long the aperture of an upcoming lens. All other lenses had their aperture mentioned when they appeared on the roadmap... We are now over 5 month of first announcement and we still not know that... We know it's f/4 or wider, and the size tells us it's probably faster than f/2.8. While not ideal, it's better than not knowing anything I guess...

11-17-2020, 05:08 AM	#641
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	I doubt that it is faster than 2.8 based on the size of the front element

11-17-2020, 05:21 AM	#642
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I doubt that it is faster than 2.8 based on the size of the front element The front element is about the size of the one on the FA 20/2.8 or Canon 20/2.8, and not much smaller than the one on the Nikon 20/1.8, though. Depending on optical design it's perfectly possible - the Irix 15/2.4 has a very small front element that compensates by being bulbous.

11-17-2020, 05:29 AM	#643
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Serkevan (...) has a very small front element that compensates by being bulbous. Hmmm... this is becoming slippery...

11-17-2020, 05:37 AM	#644
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Mistral75 Hmmm... this is becoming slippery... Yeah, it's all speculation. Bottom line, let me dream . The silver one looks so good I need every reason I can to justify upgrading the M20/4

11-17-2020, 07:28 AM	#645
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,392	I agree that it's indicative of "stupid marketing" not to inform the user base what the aperture range will be at this point.