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01-18-2021, 08:25 AM   #931
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben-G Quote
I hope too in a lens faster than f/2.8 ... like this :


Specifiche / Schemi | 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art | Prodotti | Obiettivi | SIGMA | ??????? ????????


IF NOT BETTER !
There would be no faster way to kill my interest for the lens than this... a kg of lens, non-WR, no filters? Not what a Limited should be IMO.

01-18-2021, 08:38 AM   #932
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... or like f1.7 😁... a little faster than 31mmLtd

The real limited are FA LIMITED :
31 >> f1.8
43 >> f1.9
77 >> f1.8

Last edited by Ben-G; 01-18-2021 at 08:43 AM.
01-18-2021, 08:54 AM   #933
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben-G Quote
I hope too in a lens faster than f/2.8 ... like this :


Specifiche / Schemi | 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art | Prodotti | Obiettivi | SIGMA | ??????? ????????


IF NOT BETTER !
No, that's most likely not what it's going to be. This is a Limited lens, not a star lens. Different animals. Read up on the Limited series to get a better idea, but generally they emphasize smaller size, great build quality and beauty, and "balanced" optical characteristics. They are not necessarily optimized for either speed or "clinical" sharpness.
01-18-2021, 09:03 AM   #934
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Well said @Texandrews ! I like too your definition : " Different animals" ... for the same reasons FA Limited series
don't need automatic diagphram control (!) or a Sdm motor (!) or the absence of ring aperture values (!) or, certainly, to be superfast (!)...

Welcome to a new coating, welcome to WR ...other aspects aren't in their essence...

[The link to "Xigma20_f1.4" was provocative...]

Who knows what Mr. Jun Hirakawa would think ...😉


From the pictures seems, sadly, that this new 21ltd is bigger than "old" 31 ...


Edit:
[Walter Woeltche/Walter Mandler docet];
regarding the optical scheme ... , and in a serious constructive criticism, has the computerized asymmetric design reduced effectively the distance from the distinguishing feature of symmetrical wide-angles (Biogon, SuperAngulon...) ? ... I'm very interested to see what people, here, say ...

Best regards,
Ben-G


Last edited by Ben-G; 01-18-2021 at 10:47 AM.
01-18-2021, 09:54 AM   #935
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben-G Quote
I hope too in a lens faster than f/2.8 ... like this :


Specifiche / Schemi | 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art | Prodotti | Obiettivi | SIGMA | ??????? ????????


IF NOT BETTER !
Just looked at this lens. As anyone would think only great thing about it is that 1.4 f-stop. With lot of fringing and vinget and ugly onionring bokehballs. AND bulbious front element so one cant use filters with ease. Yeah. That kind of ’compromises’ does propably this DFA21 limited offer... I’d believe that is not so meaningful for all. But for me it is.

Edit: with compromise I do mean that it’ll correct most of what is bad with faster lenses(as said above) but then it is slower.

Last edited by repaap; 01-18-2021 at 12:02 PM.
01-18-2021, 11:08 AM - 2 Likes   #936
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Expected, any such lens at f/4 would get crucified in reviews (unfortunately).
f/4 never hurt this one:

01-18-2021, 11:18 AM   #937
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Wide aperture for a ultra wide lens doesn't hurt, especially because the hyperfocal of UWA is short. f4 wide open isn't great for 21mm lens. f2.8 is better, f2 is great.

01-18-2021, 11:33 AM   #938
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
f4 wide open isn't great for 21mm lens.
It's been a classic, ever since the Leica Super Angulons for M and R.
01-18-2021, 12:03 PM   #939
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
f/4 never hurt this one:
Unfortunately, the expectations for a FF Limited 12 years later are gonna be a bit more strict . The 21 is a significantly larger lens (around the size of the FA 20/2.8) so it does not have the benefit of being almost a pancake.


Don't get me wrong, I personally don't mind the speed a lot - although if it is f/4 it would have to have very, very good rendering* to justify replacing the M20/4, considering that it will be an expensive lens. I just think that with the emphasis the designers put (in May's video) on OOF areas, the lens will be relatively fast.


*I am sure this will be true, considering all the precedents we have.
01-18-2021, 12:55 PM   #940
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The 21 is a significantly larger lens (around the size of the FA 20/2.8)
The FA 20/2.8 is way lighter than the Leica Super Angulon-R 21/4 . The DA 15, scaled up to provide decent coverage of 24x36mm, would also be a substantial hunk of glass.
01-18-2021, 01:21 PM   #941
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The FA 20/2.8 is way lighter than the Leica Super Angulon-R 21/4 . The DA 15, scaled up to provide decent coverage of 24x36mm, would also be a substantial hunk of glass.
The Super Angulon is a 1960s design - hardly comparable to anything that can come out these days. I also doubt that Pentax will revive the full frame Limited line to give the DA 15 a FF image circle.
01-18-2021, 02:29 PM   #942
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The Super Angulon is a 1960s design - hardly comparable to anything that can come out these days.
The Super Angulon has weak edges, which could be improved by modern glass. This is basically what I expect the D FA 21 Ltd to look like.
QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I also doubt that Pentax will revive the full frame Limited line to give the DA 15 a FF image circle.
I am talking about scaling up all round, seeing the 21 mm FF focal length as close to (slightly wider than) the DA 15 on APS-C. Like the FA 31 being the FF counterpart of the DA 21 (although the chronology is reversed).
01-18-2021, 04:06 PM   #943
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Wide aperture for a ultra wide lens doesn't hurt, especially because the hyperfocal of UWA is short. f4 wide open isn't great for 21mm lens. f2.8 is better, f2 is great.
Wasn't there some talk earlier about the lens being designed to provide excellent transition to out of focus areas?

That seems like it would be easier with an aperture larger than f4...

-Eric
01-18-2021, 05:44 PM   #944
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Didn't he already say greater than f4.
01-18-2021, 06:35 PM   #945
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The Super Angulon has weak edges, which could be improved by modern glass. This is basically what I expect the D FA 21 Ltd to look like.
Yes, the edges could be "strengthen" - but doing that might require a larger lens, so the result might be larger than expected of a 'limited' lens.
Remember, this is not a "perfect" 'star' lens.
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