[Wheatfield]

so are you advocating for a 'fast' DFA lens or a 'fast' DA lens of around 31mm or 35mm??

That should be fairly obvious.

[gatorguy]

A 105-ish Limited would make more sense - maybe a little quicker than f/2.8. It would fit in nicely with 21, 31, 43 and 77

A 105 would be much more interesting to me, and yes just a tad faster than 2.8. That's the one missing lens from the lineup.

[reh321]

That should be fairly obvious.

Not at all.
This thread is about a DFA lens, but your 'logic' seems to apply to "APS-C".

[phoebus]

...Ricoh must ask this question any time they issue a new lens: “Who would spend their money on such a thing, and will income from their purchases pay for the cost of developing and producing such a thing?”
I merely recast that question - I am still waiting for a real answer.

I think that anyone who has used the DFA*50 F1.4 can answer that question.. ..it is brilliant from F1.4 up.

To 'underline' the answer - the K3iii with a DA*30..35mm F1.4 AW lens would probably gain some traction. BUT, Ricoh would sell many more DFA*30..35 F1.4, as it would work with all their current K-mount range.

Is that real enough?

[Sandy Hancock]

What use-case would justify a ‘faster’ 35mm lens?

Environmental portraits. My favourite use of lenses in this focal range.

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[reh321]

I think that anyone who has used the DFA*50 F1.4 can answer that question.. ..it is brilliant from F1.4 up.

This provides justification for a DA 35mm f/1.4, just as Asahi sold the M42-mount 50mm f/1.4.

To 'underline' the answer - the K3iii with a DA*30..35mm F1.4 AW lens would probably gain some traction. BUT, Ricoh would sell many more DFA*30..35 F1.4, as it would work with all their current K-mount range.

Is that real enough?

Not for me - I believe if there were a real market for DFA 35mm f/1.4 lenses, Asahi would have exploited that market sixty years ago with an M42 35mm f/1.4.
I believe the market for f/1.4 lenses now is limited to those who want narrow DOF - those who crave more light will tend to just raise ISO a tad.

[Smolk]

Not at all.
This thread is about a DFA lens, but your 'logic' seems to apply to "APS-C".

Very obvious, really.

[beholder3]

I believe if there were a real market for DFA 35mm f/1.4 lenses, Asahi would have exploited that market sixty years ago with an M42 35mm f/1.4.

Market demands shift quite a bit in five years in photography. Even more in ten, let alone 60.
Adding to the massive changes in lens demand are the equally huge shifts in production processes. What was impossible ten years ago is easy today. What was super expensive is cheap today. What you could only do with massive quality issues is easy today.

But regardless of all of this the makers know both the cost of their production and the demand from current market surveys - and will choose accordingly.

[Serkevan]

This provides justification for a DA 35mm f/1.4, just as Asahi sold the M42-mount 50mm f/1.4.

Not for me - I believe if there were a real market for DFA 35mm f/1.4 lenses, Asahi would have exploited that market sixty years ago with an M42 35mm f/1.4.
I believe the market for f/1.4 lenses now is limited to those who want narrow DOF - those who crave more light will tend to just raise ISO a tad.

Eh, that's a bit like saying "if there were a market for autofocus lenses, Asahi would have exploited it 60 years ago".
Wide angle fast lenses were very expensive to make.

A well-corrected full frame 35mm f/1.4 is a very good astrophotography lens option. *I* probably wouldn't buy it because I don't do astro nearly as much as I'd have to to justify it, but there are many people into astro here (and it would leverage the Astrotracer feature).

Also great for environmental portraits that Sandy mentioned, similar to how the 31 Limited shines.

[Rondec]

That is an enigma. If Ricoh decides to make it 30mm, it'll compete with the FA 31 ltd. If they decide to make it a 35mm 1.4 it'll compete with the HD 35 2 and with the sigma 35 1.4. I'd make it a 28mm 1.8 or so (I actually like 28mm on FF, but 28mm is the weakest FL of the DFA28-105 and not much better for the 24-70 either). It'd be like 21ltd, 31ltd, 43ltd and 77ltd for the limted, and DFA*28, DFA*50, DFA*85, a nicely staged lineup.

I really don't think Ricoh is too worried about competing with either the FA 31 (I'm guessing they don't sell many copies of this lens any more) or the HD FA 35, which seems more of a stop gap lens with cheaper build.

I think whatever focal length Ricoh chooses (28/30/35), the whole point would be to have an optic that is sharp at f1.4, has minimal coma, good edge sharpness, and minimal fringing. I haven't used the HD FA 35, but I can tell you that the FA 31 limited, for all of its expensive price, doesn't have these qualities. It fringes pretty badly and needs to be stopped down to get good border sharpness.

Of course there will still be those who opt for the smaller, metal build of the FA limited, but there are many who would choose a DFA * optic if it was available.

[ThorSanchez]

Not for me - I believe if there were a real market for DFA 35mm f/1.4 lenses, Asahi would have exploited that market sixty years ago with an M42 35mm f/1.4.
I believe the market for f/1.4 lenses now is limited to those who want narrow DOF - those who crave more light will tend to just raise ISO a tad.

Of course 60 years ago Asahi didn't have access to modern computer-based lens design tools so any f/1.4 lens from that era would have not been nearly so sharp edge-to-edge, it would have had aberrations and coma and other issues. It probably would have needed to be stopped down to f/2.8 or smaller to get acceptable sharpness, although back then soft, dreamy focus was more in style. So any circa 1960 f/1.4 lens would have been very much a specialty thing because of all the flaws inherent in that eras designs, along with the limitations of both film and the display media. The market would have been very different.


It's a little like saying that if there was really a market for electric cars Studebaker would have built one in 1955.

[repaap]

I really don't think Ricoh is too worried about competing with either the FA 31 (I'm guessing they don't sell many copies of this lens any more) or the HD FA 35, which seems more of a stop gap lens with cheaper build.

I think whatever focal length Ricoh chooses (28/30/35), the whole point would be to have an optic that is sharp at f1.4, has minimal coma, good edge sharpness, and minimal fringing. I haven't used the HD FA 35, but I can tell you that the FA 31 limited, for all of its expensive price, doesn't have these qualities. It fringes pretty badly and needs to be stopped down to get good border sharpness.

Of course there will still be those who opt for the smaller, metal build of the FA limited, but there are many who would choose a DFA * optic if it was available.

Agreed! FA 31 limited has things going for it what is not around absolute performance, but more of how image will look. ’Pixiedust’.

HD DA35 macro was being made at the time when it was going to replace DFA50/2.8 as a macro(my interpretation of that time and how many lenses were designed, like DA*55, at that time as classic focal for apps-c equivalent).

Now we have the situation that there is aps-c and FF. and it seems that some of DA lenses seem to work okay with FF. but what is still missing is a proper FF line of prime trio with the best performance DFA*. Wether it will be 28,30 or 35 does not actually matter, since there is not such product previously made by Pentax.

I’d also love to have 100 ish limited. And 135 * lens available, even if I could not afford to buy all. Great to have this 21 mm coming!

[Wheatfield]

Very obvious, really.

His confusion is feigned.

---------- Post added Feb 17th, 2021 at 07:53 AM ----------

Eh, that's a bit like saying "if there were a market for autofocus lenses, Asahi would have exploited it 60 years ago".

A whole comedy subthread could devote to that statement.

If there was a market for......

Markets morph, technology tries to keep up. A DFA* 35/1.4 would be swell.
I'm not really expecting to see a lot of use from the 21Ltd. I tend to prefer longer lenses. I like playing with super wides, but my best work seems to come from standard to short telephoto lenses.

---------- Post added Feb 17th, 2021 at 07:56 AM ----------

It's a little like saying that if there was really a market for electric cars Studebaker would have built one in 1955.

Excellent!

[reh321]

Eh, that's a bit like saying "if there were a market for autofocus lenses, Asahi would have exploited it 60 years ago".
Wide angle fast lenses were very expensive to make.

A well-corrected full frame 35mm f/1.4 is a very good astrophotography lens option. *I* probably wouldn't buy it because I don't do astro nearly as much as I'd have to to justify it, but there are many people into astro here (and it would leverage the Astrotracer feature).

Also great for environmental portraits that Sandy mentioned, similar to how the 31 Limited shines.

Perhaps I am unique among Pentax users.

My "Super Program" was kitted with a {Pentax A} 50mm f/1.7 lens; it was the only lens I had which could go wider than f/2, and I did that only when darkness demanded it. I got into photography through my interest in railroading, so I seldom use anything wider than f/5.6 - I typically need DOF too much.

I remember taking the below photo very well even though summer 1995 was over 25 years ago.


My family was making the 2000+ mile trip to California when we passed through this small town in Iowa. It was a dark, windy, and stormy day, but I parked in the station's parking lot, sat down sitting against our van's tire, making myself as stable as possible to take the photo because
1. we were about 500 miles from home and I didn't ever expect to be in the town again {I haven't}
2. the "Rock Island" railroad had gone bankrupt
3. the line this station was on might be abandoned
4. the station would most likely be either 'cutified" or torn down
5. the only film I had with me was Kodachrome 25

so, I took several pictures, hoping at least one would be useable, even though they were taken at a shutter speed of 1/8 and the aperture of f/1.7 {which would cost me DOF}.
It is not a great photo - but it is irreplaceable.

A few months later I moved to Canon. My EOS Elan was kitted with a zoom lens, but I purchased a 50mm f/1.8 lens for use {only in} in situations like this.
Today, with my KP, I find an ISO setting below 10K that will do the job, as I would guess many other Pentax shooters do.

We will learn the actual specs for the lenses in question in about a week,