[repaap]

I don't know, at $8000 they might sell tens of them, or even dozens!

Perhaps, at 8000€ they might sell ten of them, or then they do not

[Eagle94VT]

All those zeroes in the price! I don't know much, but it's going to look great on my K1, and super great on my new K-new ("nKn"). But I'll be really upset if I have to go buy super glue to tack down a flippy screen on it.

[Serkevan]

Of course, it's a baseline expectation today ... to me it doesn't make it the best and only expectation. Everyone is on the same band wagon.

Take my K-1 ... because it's a "pro" class FF DSLR, there's no on-board flash like all others in its class ... which is quite stupid to me since I often need a handy lil' flash to fill in, etc. The KP (ASP-C) ain't "pro" class, so it gets an on-board flash. Will the new APS-C flagship get a flash ? ... I am afraid that the marketing people drive that decision more than photographers.

To me, most manufacturers bend to this (these) "unwritten rule(s)" and please do state that there's no room for a flash. My PZ-1 has a very handy flash (1/250) with 1/8000 ... I wish that K-1 had this flash feature. But no ... it's not allowed in today's product marketing straight-jacket norms.

This is lock-set, herd-like thinking which predominates a lot of modern photography thinking and product offers IMHO. All major manufacturer lenses must have AF ... otherwise it's "third rate". I would be really happy if Pentax would go more "retro" with its glass and re-edit some of its killer MF lenses ... with WR and more modern elements plus coatings. Forgot the new D-FA 85/1.4 which will cost an arm & leg ... just "modernize" my killer SMC K 85/1.8 MF and add a better focus point indicator system in the viewfinder for MF lens use.

And there's no secret to work digital with MF lenses ... since one can take many, many images at no extra cost (unlike film), just pan throw the focus a bit in front and a bit behind ... nearly impossible not to get the one you want ... and maybe see something other than what an AF system could lock you into seeing initially.

Just my deux centimes of a € ...

In defense of the "no-onboard-flash" thing: unfortunately there is a decision to be made between GPS and flash (because the GPS cannot be housed anywhere else). A camera with on-board flash cannot really use it while adding a hot-shoe GPS, but the opposite is trivial. And while I *personally* would find a pop-up flash handy more often on my K-1, I understand that for all the field cameras (K-1 for landscape and K-New for action/wildlife) a GPS unit is a better compromise: some people want to know *where* exactly that bird was, or to shoot with the astrotracer without lugging around extra stuff.

Not only that, decent flashes are a dime a dozen and even a small unit like the Metz 26 will beat out an on-board flash any time of the day... while GPS units are expensive and won't be better than the integrated unit.


It makes sense to have a small fill flash for "street" smallish cameras (like the KP) because those aren't typically situations where you would need the GPS. Entry level cameras are aimed at entry-level photographers and they will probably appreciate fill flash more than GPS - I know I did.

I would also like Pentax to revisit older designs with a new coat* of paint and make the focusing screen an actual focusing screen, but most digital-era zooms are too slow for that... I don't think they have the R&D power to tackle that when the bulk of the sales will come from more "mainstream" offerings. By saying that the D FA 21 Ltd will be an UWA focused on subject separation and bokeh they are already going against the grain - which I love.


*They would have to sell them very cheap to compete with the actual vintage second hand copies, and making them WR to have added appeal would certainly need a barrel redesign - some of those old models are practically see-through.

[ThorSanchez]

Of course, it's a baseline expectation today ... to me it doesn't make it the best and only expectation. Everyone is on the same band wagon.

Take my K-1 ... because it's a "pro" class FF DSLR, there's no on-board flash like all others in its class ... which is quite stupid to me since I often need a handy lil' flash to fill in, etc. The KP (ASP-C) ain't "pro" class, so it gets an on-board flash. Will the new APS-C flagship get a flash ? ... I am afraid that the marketing people drive that decision more than photographers.

To me, most manufacturers bend to this (these) "unwritten rule(s)" and please do state that there's no room for a flash. My PZ-1 has a very handy flash (1/250) with 1/8000 ... I wish that K-1 had this flash feature. But no ... it's not allowed in today's product marketing straight-jacket norms.

This is lock-set, herd-like thinking which predominates a lot of modern photography thinking and product offers IMHO. All major manufacturer lenses must have AF ... otherwise it's "third rate". I would be really happy if Pentax would go more "retro" with its glass and re-edit some of its killer MF lenses ... with WR and more modern elements plus coatings. Forgot the new D-FA 85/1.4 which will cost an arm & leg ... just "modernize" my killer SMC K 85/1.8 MF and add a better focus point indicator system in the viewfinder for MF lens use.

And there's no secret to work digital with MF lenses ... since one can take many, many images at no extra cost (unlike film), just pan throw the focus a bit in front and a bit behind ... nearly impossible not to get the one you want ... and maybe see something other than what an AF system could lock you into seeing initially.

Just my deux centimes of a € ...

There's a fine line between "herd mentality" and catering to so small of a niche that no one is going to buy your product.

It's like my Audi S4. I bought it in part because I could get it with a manual transmission. Since then Audi has dropped all manuals in the US because the overall take rate was less than 10%, and quite small even on their more performance-oriented cars. They don't break out the S4 from the A4 in sales numbers but I assume they sell a few thousand S4s in the US a year. If just 100 or 200 people want the manual, it wasn't financially reasonable to qualify and certify and sell that in the US.

Similar with Pentax. I'm sure they're run the surveys and done the math and decided that only a small percentage of their already small user base would buy a high-end manual focus lens, so they don't build one. They're not Zeiss, they're not Leica, it's not financially viable. Or that's my take on it.

[Wheatfield]

Nice to see some traction "chez" Ricoh/Pentax ... they were worrying me a bit.

I have not read all here, but an f/4 is not something to write home about.

We'll see when it comes out, but I will bet dollars (or euros) to doughnuts that my Soligor 20mm 2.8 (which is wider and a full stop faster) will hold its own against this Limited ... plus the Soligor (mine is a re-badged Spiratone) makes some fun, funky bokeh at MFD.

I still do not understand why someone would really need autofocus on an ultra-wide angle lens, especially if you plan to shoot it at about f/8 ... hyper-focal, anyone ?!

F/4 is pure speculation, not something you have any direct knowledge about.
Your Spiratone lens will do well against the new 21mm if the glass is removed from the Pentax lens and replaced by the bottom of a Coke bottle, which is pretty much what the Spiratone lens is.
When you get right down to it, all we need is food, water and a roof over our heads. All of this camera stuff isn't about need.

[savoche]

Take my K-1 ... because it's a "pro" class FF DSLR, there's no on-board flash like all others in its class

I'd think it has more to do with the GPS than being a "pro" class camera, same as the difference between the K-3 and K-3II - flash vs GPS. Besides, if the K-new indeed is intended to be a high fps, quick focusing action oriented camera I'd think an onboard flash isn't a priority.

As for herd mentality, I think that's a witness to the (real or imagined) power of the online reviewers - who tend to very much run in the same herd. Cameras must have blazingly fast autofocus, lenses must have insane corner sharpness, no matter what. Because that's "pro".

Me, I want a camera with good manual controls, tactile buttons and wheels so I don't have to look at what my fingers are doing. I like aufofocus, but one focus point is plenty. And the AF doesn't have to be quick, just accurate. And I want a good viewfinder.

I have a Panasonic GX80 - which is a good example of how not to do it. While it has enough programmable buttons for most things, most of them are too flush to be easily felt. What's the point? And a touch screen. Which is nice for menu diving or reviewing images, but useless when shooting. It also has a pretty bad EVF. Not quite useless, but certainly no pleasure to use. But least the AF is plenty slow

Umm, I guess I've wandered far enough off topic now

[Digitalis]

The Ricoh people mentioned that subject separation and bokeh were important design goals for this lens so it will either be fast or have ridiculously close MFD.

Having an incredibly short MFD can be a bit of a hazard on an ultra-wide lens, the front element being so close to the subject that there is a potential for damage. I would rather have a faster lens than the novelty of a short MFD.

[Jean Poitiers]

F/4 is pure speculation, not something you have any direct knowledge about.
Your Spiratone lens will do well against the new 21mm if the glass is removed from the Pentax lens and replaced by the bottom of a Coke bottle, which is pretty much what the Spiratone lens is.
When you get right down to it, all we need is food, water and a roof over our heads. All of this camera stuff isn't about need.

Examples of a "Coke bottle bottom" Spiratone lens ... we'll see if the Pentax 21mm will be worth 5x or 6x times more as per price ... just FYI, it's a re-badged Soligor lens.

[BarneyL]

Some pretty nice pictures, Jean. This lens might not be a sharpness monster, but as you have proven, it's plenty capable of delivering good results.

[Jean Poitiers]

More Coke bottle in B&W ...

[sculptor666]

And there's Irix also ... and Laowa, too ... but that's all third rate except for their price points.

i've seen plenty of images from several laowa lenses and they're great. same with the irix 150 macro.. just as sharp as any pentax macro with less ca.

[Jean Poitiers]

Some pretty nice pictures, Jean. This lens might not be a sharpness monster, but as you have proven, it's plenty capable of delivering good results.

Thanks.

Those color images were shot wide open @ f/2.8 and @ or near MFD for the bokeh effect of this lens. Stopped down (for landscape, etc.), it's pretty darn good overall.

[Mistral75]

(...)
When you get right down to it, all we need is food, water and a roof over our heads. (...)

Please throw a few clothes or blankets in the basket. I'm a bit sensitive to cold.

[texandrews]

Take my K-1 ... because it's a "pro" class FF DSLR, there's no on-board flash like all others in its class ... which is quite stupid to me since I often need a handy lil' flash to fill in, etc. The KP (ASP-C) ain't "pro" class, so it gets an on-board flash. Will the new APS-C flagship get a flash ? ... I am afraid that the marketing people drive that decision more than photographers.

To me, most manufacturers bend to this (these) "unwritten rule(s)" and please do state that there's no room for a flash. My PZ-1 has a very handy flash (1/250) with 1/8000 ... I wish that K-1 had this flash feature. But no ... it's not allowed in today's product marketing straight-jacket norms.

Well, as someone who is now a working pro, let me address this genre of "pro/not pro" directly. The decision not to put things like pop up flashes or articulating screens (arguably far more important) on pro models I think has much more to do with lessening bits that can more easily break on a camera. I think one answer to this is the way the K1's screen is weirdly strong but not a flip out screen. On the 645Z, the screen only flips up or slightly down, and I think it's a response to medium format user traditions of looking down into a viewfinder.

For pop up flashes---they have always been a little flimsy, and create another point in the camera that would require sealing. They are also not very powerful or flexible for pro level strobe situations---all pros would work with a flash or strobe unit that is more capable.

So, that's I think a key answer.

[Kunzite]

Examples of a "Coke bottle bottom" Spiratone lens ... we'll see if the Pentax 21mm will be worth 5x or 6x times more as per price ... just FYI, it's a re-badged Soligor lens.

I'm sure the Pentax 21mm will be well worth its money (that's not the same as everyone being easily able to afford it).

Those images... we're seeing the photographer being able to compensate for the equipment's shortcomings.