[Rondec]

We could not disagree more here ... being a demanding consumer of a brand that you cherish is not being unreasonable.

As for your "0" for Canon and Nikon, here's a DPR page containing some of the new items from Canon, Nikon & company ... Reviews and previews: Digital Photography Review

Example:
- Canon R5 & R6
- Nikon Z7ii, Z6ii & Z5
- Panasonic - Lumix DC-S5
- plus Leica & Zeiss offerings

So, chalk up a "big fat zero" for them as of late ... and please know that none of these cameras are sitting in the display cases and my local B&M photo shop.

It is clear the sensor fire affected a lot of different companies. That isn't the only reason that Pentax has been slow to release new gear. I do think they have been a bit lost in the wilderness, but I also see some new things on the horizon that indicate that there has been benefit from this fallow period.

The biggest thing to me is that they have finally upgraded their processing engine. This is something that was in the works for a long time, but the K-3 III includes 4K video (a first for Pentax), much higher number of auto focus points, and seems to significantly improve tracking auto focus -- even for older (slow) lenses, like the DA *50-135. The PLM technology really seems to ramp up auto focus speed from the lens side of things and is going to be included in the DA *16-50 II which is just around the corner.

Perhaps I am just too optimistic, but I think that with some to of these issues out of the way, moving forward should be easier for other cameras built with the same processing engine.

[Pål Jensen]

Perhaps I am just too optimistic, but I think that with some to of these issues out of the way, moving forward should be easier for other cameras built with the same processing engine.

You are not too optimistic. They don't develop a new finder, mirror mechanism, new AF system and new metering system in order to make a last splash in APS DSLR before the whole world is going mirrorless. This is a complete new basis for DSLR development. Pentax obviously have fate in the future of DSLR's.....

[Rondec]

You are not too optimistic. They don't develop a new finder, mirror mechanism, new AF system and new metering system in order to make a last splash in APS DSLR before the whole world is going mirrorless. This is a complete new basis for DSLR development. Pentax obviously have fate in the future of DSLR's.....

I agree -- they have clearly decided to continue working within the "confines" that SLRs put on them. I guess the question is how long till we see the next camera body after the K-3 III?

I would guess about a year for a K-1 II sequel, but I have no particular reason for thinking that.

[Serkevan]

I agree -- they have clearly decided to continue working within the "confines" that SLRs put on them. I guess the question is how long till we see the next camera body after the K-3 III?

I would guess about a year for a K-1 II sequel, but I have no particular reason for thinking that.

Well, Mr. Ferrang from RI Europe had said it was typical to take 14-18 months to develop a DSLR, with MILCs needing about half a year less. If we assume that the K-1iii will reuse most (if not all) of the electronics present in the K-3iii we might indeed be looking at the shorter end of the range (so late-ish 2022?).

[Rondec]

Well, Mr. Ferrang from RI Europe had said it was typical to take 14-18 months to develop a DSLR, with MILCs needing about half a year less. If we assume that the K-1iii will reuse most (if not all) of the electronics present in the K-3iii we might indeed be looking at the shorter end of the range (so late-ish 2022?).

Maybe so, but my impression is that the K-3 III has actually been done for a little while and is waiting on parts so, hopefully they have actually been working on the K-1 III already.

[Mike.P®]

I got my spotmatic after my KP tyvm.

And the K-01 and ME super?

KP as your first camera ... cool.

Just playing but harping back at the old days when someone want's new technology is just a bad comparison.

[Jean Poitiers]

It is clear the sensor fire affected a lot of different companies. That isn't the only reason that Pentax has been slow to release new gear. I do think they have been a bit lost in the wilderness, but I also see some new things on the horizon that indicate that there has been benefit from this fallow period.

The biggest thing to me is that they have finally upgraded their processing engine. This is something that was in the works for a long time, but the K-3 III includes 4K video (a first for Pentax), much higher number of auto focus points, and seems to significantly improve tracking auto focus -- even for older (slow) lenses, like the DA *50-135. The PLM technology really seems to ramp up auto focus speed from the lens side of things and is going to be included in the DA *16-50 II which is just around the corner.

Perhaps I am just too optimistic, but I think that with some to of these issues out of the way, moving forward should be easier for other cameras built with the same processing engine.

Points well taken ... and I am afraid that my optimism for the future of Pentax has taken a hard and consistent beating over these past few years. Enough said.

[Jean Poitiers]

You mean the ones that were planned for much earlier than the K-3iii (the Rs were announced for spring 2020), therefore unaffected by the factory fire?

Ah, no, they are affected - more than half a year of delivery time for some early adopters. People can't buy the cameras because Canikon are also plagued by production issues.

I like how you count the R5 and R6 but conveniently ignore the DFA* 85 which is from the same time frame. At least be consistent

Point well taken ... and another poster did not count the DFA* 85 either.

The issue is that Pentax has been almost dead in the water on R&D and new product development for years as compared to the average of the industry.

When was the last time one ever saw Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus, Leica, Sigma or Tamron, (etc.) announce a new lens (like our arguably vaporware 21mm) or any product and TEN PLUS MONTHS LATER there is NOTHING. No new or more information and certainly no new product. Please educate me if this has ever happened previously.

Same "dead in the water" scenario goes for the flagship Pentax APS-C, the K3iii ... since when does it take any of the camera manufacturers above over 7.5 years to come out with a major upgrade.

DPR announcement = again of May 15, 2020 ... Ricoh reveals D FA 21mm Limited, DA 16-50mm F2.8 and details D FA* 85mm F1.4: Digital Photography Review

And just curious, where are we on the announced DA* 16-50/2.8 ... PF indicates a release in 2021.

[Serkevan]

Point well taken ... and another poster did not count the DFA* 85 either.

The issue is that Pentax has been almost dead in the water on R&D and new product development for years as compared to the average of the industry.

When was the last time one ever saw Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus, Leica, Sigma or Tamron, (etc.) announce a new lens (like our arguably vaporware 21mm) or any product and TEN PLUS MONTHS LATER there is NOTHING. No new or more information and certainly no new product. Please educate me if this has ever happened previously.

Same "dead in the water" scenario goes for the flagship Pentax APS-C, the K3iii ... since when does it take any of the camera manufacturers above over 7.5 years to come out with a major upgrade.

DPR announcement = again of May 15, 2020 ... Ricoh reveals D FA 21mm Limited, DA 16-50mm F2.8 and details D FA* 85mm F1.4: Digital Photography Review

And just curious, where are we on the announced DA* 16-50/2.8 ... PF indicates a release in 2021.

Kunzite didn't bring up the DFA* 85 because he mentioned the time period between October (when the fire happened) and now - stuff released a bit earlier has had production issues and several products seem to have been pushed back a fair bit.

The time without news *is* frustrating for me as well, but as someone whose work has been impacted a fair bit through the pandemic... I can understand that hiccups happen, particularly if you're a smaller company where any disturbance will be magnified. Going from 3 to 1 products looks much worse than going from 15 to 4 (to say some random numbers).

It seems the 16-50/2.8 is almost ready to go judging by CP+ so hopefully they will manage to bring it out together with the K-3iii...

[Mistral75]

(...)

When was the last time one ever saw Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus, Leica, Sigma or Tamron, (etc.) announce a new lens (like our arguably vaporware 21mm) or any product and TEN PLUS MONTHS LATER there is NOTHING. No new or more information and certainly no new product. Please educate me if this has ever happened previously.

(...)

An example: Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 150-400mm f/4.5 TC1.25x IS Pro.

• Development announcement on 24 January 2019, tentative release date 2020.
• Mock-up showcased under glass during CP+ 2019 (February) and The Photography Show 2019 (March).
• Prototypes spotted in the field in March 2019.
• then nothing for a long while
• July 2020: release postponed to winter 2020, additional pictures published.
• November 2020: announcement with full specifications and tentative release date (22 January 2021).

The first deliveries were eventually postponed to February 2021 for a general availability in March.

[Kunzite]

We could not disagree more here ... being a demanding consumer of a brand that you cherish is not being unreasonable.

As for your "0" for Canon and Nikon, here's a DPR page containing some of the new items from Canon, Nikon & company ... Reviews and previews: Digital Photography Review

Example:
- Canon R5 & R6
- Nikon Z7ii, Z6ii & Z5
- Panasonic - Lumix DC-S5
- plus Leica & Zeiss offerings

So, chalk up a "big fat zero" for them as of late ... and please know that none of these cameras are sitting in the display cases and my local B&M photo shop.

I was very specific in choosing the period where the AKM factory fire would be an issue. Because without that, the K-3iii might've been already on the market - and then, Pentax would no longer be at 0.
You're going as far as 8 months in the past (+ what's needed for starting production).

[MMVIII]

Point well taken ... and another poster did not count the DFA* 85 either.

The issue is that Pentax has been almost dead in the water on R&D and new product development for years as compared to the average of the industry.

When was the last time one ever saw Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus, Leica, Sigma or Tamron, (etc.) announce a new lens (like our arguably vaporware 21mm) or any product and TEN PLUS MONTHS LATER there is NOTHING. No new or more information and certainly no new product. Please educate me if this has ever happened previously.

Same "dead in the water" scenario goes for the flagship Pentax APS-C, the K3iii ... since when does it take any of the camera manufacturers above over 7.5 years to come out with a major upgrade.

DPR announcement = again of May 15, 2020 ... Ricoh reveals D FA 21mm Limited, DA 16-50mm F2.8 and details D FA* 85mm F1.4: Digital Photography Review

And just curious, where are we on the announced DA* 16-50/2.8 ... PF indicates a release in 2021.

First, as always, repeated complaints in this forum are a waste of time. This is a forum of users of a certain system, not a management board meeting nor product planners forum. Chances are higher some people are getting annoyed and some harsh reactions may follow than anything of a personal complaint being noticed by anyone who would have the power to change anything. Period, but sure YMMV.

Second, Canon and Nikon started a completely new system from the scratch. There is some basic compatibility with old lenses, but the old system was really old (modern Nikon fast 50 for DSLRs?...) and modern lenses overdue. They had to bring out a complete lineup of new mirrorless lenses and cameras to convince anyone that they mean to stay competitive also in this field. Sony is an electronics company and they started to produce cameras as electronic goods, like the 1600$ smartphone that looks old after three years because two generations of new phones have been released, with minor upgrades, but still. Same for Fuji, minor upgrades or just a diversification of the same base elements. Betting on the future of Olympus might be a risky business in it's own.
No question, especially wideangle primes would be a long awaited desiderate for the Pentax system, especially if landscape, architecture and astro are important domains for the K-1 line. And the more lenses are coming the better, but it's not that there are too many gaps to make the system unusable.
If only the sheer quantity of new products is something that might give you a better sleep I don't see many choices.
If an early announcement of products to come provokes "vaporware" accusations I also don't know what advice I would give Ricoh management. Stay tight lipped until things are ready was not the most appreciated tactics either.

[BarneyL]

I was very specific in choosing the period where the AKM factory fire would be an issue. Because without that, the K-3iii might've been already on the market - and then, Pentax would no longer be at 0.
You're going as far as 8 months in the past (+ what's needed for starting production).

K-3 III had a tournee over the world during celebrations of 100th anniversary of Asahi Opt. Co. That was autumn 2019.
I mean, sure, in 2020 Covid happened and all that stuff that made things complicated; but it still eludes me why the camera needed (at least) 1,5 year since then for a market launch. Especially since Pentax doesn't make that many cameras in terms of volume (the last data I've seen indicates Ricoh/Pentax made around 30 000 SLRs in 2020, Canon 1,7 milion and Nikon 650 000).

Anyway, I agree that complaining about the pace of introducing new products by Ricoh/Pentax isn't really getting us anywhere. I honestly don't think they pay much attention to their userbase outside Japan, as evidenced by their marketing efforts.


Thankfully, that does not mean I can't enjoy using the gear I already have. Will I invest more in the brand? If they come up with something that interests me, sure. If not, I'm not in a rush to spend even more money on already stupidly expensive hobby...

[mtkeller]

K-3 III had a tournee over the world during celebrations of 100th anniversary of Asahi Opt. Co. That was autumn 2019.
I mean, sure, in 2020 Covid happened and all that stuff that made things complicated; but it still eludes me why the camera needed (at least) 1,5 year since then for a market launch. Especially since Pentax doesn't make that many cameras in terms of volume (the last data I've seen indicates Ricoh/Pentax made around 30 000 SLRs in 2020, Canon 1,7 milion and Nikon 650 000).

This camera is bringing us two major new developments: new pentaprism to enlarge the viewfinder and tracking AF technology in the OVF. It sounds like the new pentaprism required new materials, and there likely were a number of quality control issues to sort out so that they could produce what was required. (Pentax can’t afford a recall.) The AF can be fixed with firmware updates, but if it’s not excellent upon release, they won’t sell enough camera for anyone to care if they fix glitches with firmware updates.

Wakashiro-san looks a bit like he’s filming hostage videos when he appears on camera nowadays. I suspect he wants to get this camera into photographers’ hands just as much as we want to have it.

[ThorSanchez]

If an early announcement of products to come provokes "vaporware" accusations I also don't know what advice I would give Ricoh management. Stay tight lipped until things are ready was not the most appreciated tactics either.

Ricoh has to decide if it's better to go a year, year-and-a-half, two years from announcement to release on products, or even longer with no news whatsoever and then announce only when it's about to hit the streets. In either case you're a consumer electronics company that takes year(s) to release products, and nature abhors a vacuum. Rumors will crop up in the extremely long pauses between facts.