D FA 21 Limited is one of the three.

reh321 · 04-10-2021, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

Tougher for the recent joiners to the Pentax fold but if you've been dabbling for the last 10yrs or so like me, then you can pick and choose. The 21 fills a gap for me so I'll get it

The tough life of an artist!

I shoot at f/5.6 or smaller {physically} aperture because context is important to me.

I already had an 18-135mm lens - but recently added a 20-40mm Ltd lens - so I already have two lenses that can cover 21mm for my KP {and I don’t own a “FF” digital camera}.

**robbiec** · 04-10-2021, 02:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

The tough life of an artist!

I shoot at f/5.6 or smaller {physically} aperture because context is important to me.

I already had an 18-135mm lens - but recently added a 20-40mm Ltd lens - so I already have two lenses that can cover 21mm for my KP {and I don’t own a “FF” digital camera}.

Yep its very tough. I go to bed at night wondering what my next lens will be

, i'm down to my last 10 or so to get or try out.

Wheatfield · 04-11-2021, 10:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by thibs

I don't think they'd do that.
Premium maybe but not Leica-like either.

I think premium definitely, since that is pretty much going to be the entire camera market in a few years.

reh321 · 04-11-2021, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I think premium definitely, since that is pretty much going to be the entire camera market in a few years.

We won't even know what that means until they release a few more lenses and a "entry level" body.

Last edited by reh321; 04-11-2021 at 11:50 AM. Reason: correct tags for "premium"

**robbiec** · 04-11-2021, 12:45 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

We won't even know what that means until they release a few more lenses and a "entry level" body.

Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks.

mtkeller · 04-11-2021, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks.

So what does Pentax think of me? I came in via the K-50, which I upgraded to a K-70 in Kyoto when my K-50 had aperture block failure and I had zero time to get it fixed during the trip. Last fall, I bought a used 645D off Facebook Marketplace locally. I just pre-ordered a K-3 iii. I have zero interest in full-frame. The 645D is built like a tank. I might buy a used 645Z Mk i when the 645Z Mk iii comes out 10–15 years from now…or maybe I won’t, because I have a bit of a soft spot for that CCD sensor.

**robbiec** · 04-11-2021, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by mtkeller

So what does Pentax think of me? I came in via the K-50, which I upgraded to a K-70 in Kyoto when my K-50 had aperture block failure and I had zero time to get it fixed during the trip. Last fall, I bought a used 645D off Facebook Marketplace locally. I just pre-ordered a K-3 iii. I have zero interest in full-frame. The 645D is built like a tank. I might buy a used 645Z Mk i when the 645Z Mk iii comes out 10–15 years from now…or maybe I won’t, because I have a bit of a soft spot for that CCD sensor.

You're a valued customer who has just pre ordered a K3 iii, stepping up from a Kx0 series. K3iii is incredibly important as a ways of baselining the APSC customer base and bringing them back onboard or keeping current. Say you started off with a K50, you've learned the system, picked up a few lens along the way, decided that FF is not for you - well here is the K-3 iii, keep your lens and everything is improved. Same for the K-5, K-3, K-P, K-500, K-70 users.

reh321 · 04-11-2021, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks.

The new "entry-level" will give us a better idea of where Pentax is handling.
Presumably it will be "APS-C" .... but we don't know even that yet - they could even keep the K-1ii or release a lower version to "introduce" folk to the brand.
If it is "APS-C', what will it inherit from the K-3iii?
I expect it will have a better focusing system - I expect that the prism would drive the price 'too high' - but we don't know even that yet.
I have a KP right now - we don't even know whether the new "introductory" camera will be a clear 'step up' from it.

**jatrax** · 04-11-2021, 02:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by robbiec

Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series,

I'm not sure that is the case. Based on the price of the K-3III I suspect Pentax is basing pricing on the performance of the camera, not the sensor. For some time now we have been conditioned to expect a price curve based on sensor size. But I think that is going to fade. There is no reason why a high performance enthusiast APS-C camera should not cost more than an entry level FF camera. Going forward I expect to see two levels of APS-C cameras similar to what we have now (K-70 family and K-3 family) and two levels of FF cameras possibly with significantly different megapixel size. Perhaps a 36MP upgrade of the K-1II and 60MP or more bigger brother.

I also suspect that with a 60MP FF camera that 645 will be allowed to fade away.

**robbiec** · 04-11-2021, 02:57 PM

@reh321 @jatrax

Time will tell as it invariably does

So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25?

reh321 · 04-11-2021, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

@reh321 @jatrax

Time will tell as it invariably does

So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25?

Be patient.
Pentax will tell us those things at their convenience.
Our guessing will tell us nothing.

noelpolar · 04-11-2021, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

@reh321 @jatrax

Time will tell as it invariably does

So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25?

It would have to be in the 15 to 20cm range wouldn't it? .... foodie lens

**robbiec** · 04-14-2021, 10:02 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by noelpolar

It would have to be in the 15 to 20cm range wouldn't it? .... foodie lens

I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth"

Wheatfield · 04-14-2021, 10:10 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by robbiec

I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth"

That tells me, given the focal length, that it will be on the faster side. It's pretty hard to get bokeh out of a 21mm f/4 lens.

LennyBloke · 04-14-2021, 10:13 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by robbiec

I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth"

...and that's precisely what I'm looking for - a bit like the Flektogon 35mm f2.4 or f2.8 but significantly wider

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04-10-2021, 02:06 PM	#1291
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by robbiec Tougher for the recent joiners to the Pentax fold but if you've been dabbling for the last 10yrs or so like me, then you can pick and choose. The 21 fills a gap for me so I'll get it The tough life of an artist! I shoot at f/5.6 or smaller {physically} aperture because context is important to me. I already had an 18-135mm lens - but recently added a 20-40mm Ltd lens - so I already have two lenses that can cover 21mm for my KP {and I don’t own a “FF” digital camera}.

04-10-2021, 02:36 PM - 1 Like	#1292
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by reh321 The tough life of an artist! I shoot at f/5.6 or smaller {physically} aperture because context is important to me. I already had an 18-135mm lens - but recently added a 20-40mm Ltd lens - so I already have two lenses that can cover 21mm for my KP {and I don’t own a “FF” digital camera}. Yep its very tough. I go to bed at night wondering what my next lens will be , i'm down to my last 10 or so to get or try out.

04-11-2021, 10:51 AM - 1 Like	#1293
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by thibs I don't think they'd do that. Premium maybe but not Leica-like either. I think premium definitely, since that is pretty much going to be the entire camera market in a few years.

04-11-2021, 11:05 AM	#1294
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by Wheatfield I think premium definitely, since that is pretty much going to be the entire camera market in a few years. We won't even know what that means until they release a few more lenses and a "entry level" body. Last edited by reh321; 04-11-2021 at 11:50 AM. Reason: correct tags for "premium"

04-11-2021, 12:45 PM - 2 Likes	#1295
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by reh321 We won't even know what that means until they release a few more lenses and a "entry level" body. Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks.

04-11-2021, 12:50 PM	#1296
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by robbiec Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks. So what does Pentax think of me? I came in via the K-50, which I upgraded to a K-70 in Kyoto when my K-50 had aperture block failure and I had zero time to get it fixed during the trip. Last fall, I bought a used 645D off Facebook Marketplace locally. I just pre-ordered a K-3 iii. I have zero interest in full-frame. The 645D is built like a tank. I might buy a used 645Z Mk i when the 645Z Mk iii comes out 10–15 years from now…or maybe I won’t, because I have a bit of a soft spot for that CCD sensor.

04-11-2021, 01:26 PM	#1297
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by mtkeller So what does Pentax think of me? I came in via the K-50, which I upgraded to a K-70 in Kyoto when my K-50 had aperture block failure and I had zero time to get it fixed during the trip. Last fall, I bought a used 645D off Facebook Marketplace locally. I just pre-ordered a K-3 iii. I have zero interest in full-frame. The 645D is built like a tank. I might buy a used 645Z Mk i when the 645Z Mk iii comes out 10–15 years from now…or maybe I won’t, because I have a bit of a soft spot for that CCD sensor. You're a valued customer who has just pre ordered a K3 iii, stepping up from a Kx0 series. K3iii is incredibly important as a ways of baselining the APSC customer base and bringing them back onboard or keeping current. Say you started off with a K50, you've learned the system, picked up a few lens along the way, decided that FF is not for you - well here is the K-3 iii, keep your lens and everything is improved. Same for the K-5, K-3, K-P, K-500, K-70 users.

04-11-2021, 02:17 PM	#1298
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by robbiec Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, 645 is where Pentax reckons you're getting serious and the new "entry level"? it's coming out in a few weeks. The new "entry-level" will give us a better idea of where Pentax is handling. Presumably it will be "APS-C" .... but we don't know even that yet - they could even keep the K-1ii or release a lower version to "introduce" folk to the brand. If it is "APS-C', what will it inherit from the K-3iii? I expect it will have a better focusing system - I expect that the prism would drive the price 'too high' - but we don't know even that yet. I have a KP right now - we don't even know whether the new "introductory" camera will be a clear 'step up' from it.

04-11-2021, 02:29 PM - 1 Like	#1299
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by robbiec Entry to Pentax is APSC, Stepping up to Enthusiast is the K-1 series, I'm not sure that is the case. Based on the price of the K-3III I suspect Pentax is basing pricing on the performance of the camera, not the sensor. For some time now we have been conditioned to expect a price curve based on sensor size. But I think that is going to fade. There is no reason why a high performance enthusiast APS-C camera should not cost more than an entry level FF camera. Going forward I expect to see two levels of APS-C cameras similar to what we have now (K-70 family and K-3 family) and two levels of FF cameras possibly with significantly different megapixel size. Perhaps a 36MP upgrade of the K-1II and 60MP or more bigger brother. I also suspect that with a 60MP FF camera that 645 will be allowed to fade away.

04-11-2021, 02:57 PM	#1300
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	@reh321 @jatrax Time will tell as it invariably does So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25?

04-11-2021, 03:07 PM	#1301
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by robbiec @reh321 @jatrax Time will tell as it invariably does So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25? Be patient. Pentax will tell us those things at their convenience. Our guessing will tell us nothing.

04-11-2021, 04:46 PM	#1302
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by robbiec @reh321 @jatrax Time will tell as it invariably does So let's get back chatting about the 21. We still don't know it's aperture, any hint if it does a bit of close focusing ala the Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/25? It would have to be in the 15 to 20cm range wouldn't it? .... foodie lens

04-14-2021, 10:02 AM - 2 Likes	#1303
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by noelpolar It would have to be in the 15 to 20cm range wouldn't it? .... foodie lens I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth"

04-14-2021, 10:10 AM - 3 Likes	#1304
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by robbiec I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth" That tells me, given the focal length, that it will be on the faster side. It's pretty hard to get bokeh out of a 21mm f/4 lens.

04-14-2021, 10:13 AM - 2 Likes	#1305
LennyBloke Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Worcestershire, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 677	Originally posted by robbiec I rewatched the video where they showcased the CP+2020 stuff and where the D FA21 Limited was first shown. "But its real value lies in its ability to highlight subjects in close while creating a beautiful bokeh in the background and capturing the true-to-life sense of depth" ...and that's precisely what I'm looking for - a bit like the Flektogon 35mm f2.4 or f2.8 but significantly wider