D FA 21 Limited is one of the three.

Smolk · 04-20-2021, 07:11 AM

I've mentioned in a separate thread how the Nikon Z 14-30mm suffers from barrel distortion, but it's completely corrected by software. There were suggestions by people who understand this far better than I that this may have consequences for colour. In practice, I don't think the differences will be huge.
Perhaps it should be possible to turn correction on or off according to the demands of the situation.

**c.a.m** · 04-20-2021, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Smolk

I've mentioned in a separate thread how the Nikon Z 14-30mm suffers from barrel distortion, but it's completely corrected by software.

Having an EVF, do the Nikon Z cameras display the correction in real time while viewing? That function would be useful, I would think.

- Craig

Wheatfield · 04-20-2021, 07:27 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by robbiec

Imagine you have a group of 10 people, get them to stand in a close curve around you. You'll get them all in and if you do it well, no distortion

When I was shooting weddings, that was one of the things I did with the group pictures. While other shooters would just line them up and shoot them down, I was running a string from tripod to B&G, and then ensuring the group was lined up in an arc around the field curvature distance.
This was especially important with very large groups. The biggest group I shot was over 200 people. We used three portable bleachers for the people to sit on, and put the outer two at an angle to compensate for the field curvature on the Pentax 6x7 75/4.5 lens.

reh321 · 04-20-2021, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Having an EVF, do the Nikon Z cameras display the correction in real time while viewing? That function would be useful, I would think.

- Craig

Based on the blinking light, my KP takes several seconds to ‘develop’ an image, including lens correction.
I would think that “pin-cushion” correction would take too much time to be done in real time.

house · 04-20-2021, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

That’s not unique to mirrorless. Ricoh could implement that in SLRs and take that approach. They already offer some level of lens correction in-camera. They just haven’t taken the Sony approach to aggressive correction...

-Eric

No it's not possible with dslr's because your framing will be wrong. The evf corrects the view so that you won't be surprised when bit's of the frame is chopped off.

**TwoUptons** · 04-20-2021, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by house

No it's not possible with dslr's because your framing will be wrong. The evf corrects the view so that you won't be surprised when bit's of the frame is chopped off.

That doesn’t make it impossible. Assuming a 100% viewfinder (like the K1), the framing should be very close since the sensor can’t capture something the viewfinder isn’t seeing.

Obviously, things could look different in the final image in ways we wouldn’t all be happy with. It would also depend on how that’s implemented. Vignette correction would seem to be pretty easy, though.

My 16-50 has pretty significant correction. Obviously, I don’t get to watch it through the OVF, and it’s mild enough to not bother me, but I can sure see it happen when using live view, especially at 16mm.

-Eric

house · 04-20-2021, 09:51 AM

Distortion corrections pushes things out of the frame unless you want an image with curved sides. I don't think many photographers would be happy about being able to frame accurately.

Small amounts is fine for casual work but some mirrorless lenses show a lot of distortion. See Leica Q2 for instance.

**TwoUptons** · 04-20-2021, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by house

Distortion corrections pushes things out of the frame unless you want an image with curved sides. I don't think many photographers would be happy about being able to frame accurately.

Small amounts is fine for casual work but some mirrorless lenses show a lot of distortion. See Leica Q2 for instance.

No doubt, though I think back to my early days with the K1000 or Super Program with what, a 93% viewfinder? I’d miss tight framing a lot with those...and have to crop in later in the darkroom. We’re so spoiled these days...

And there’s always a threshold. I guess at some point the distortion becomes really hard to correct and unacceptable no matter how fancy the algorithm.

-Eric

reh321 · 04-20-2021, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

No doubt, though I think back to my early days with the K1000 or Super Program with what, a 93% viewfinder? I’d miss tight framing a lot with those...and have to crop in later in the darkroom. We’re so spoiled these days...

At some point I found myself shooting too tightly with my "Super Program" - I give more of a 'cushion' these days ..... I had enough film - now I have enough pixels.

jct us101 · 04-20-2021, 10:25 AM

What I don't get with mirrorless cameras is that with such a huge reliance on software correction - you'd think they could keep the size down a bit. The Fuji 90mm is so absurdly large it's upsetting. Sure it's sharp but it negates the purpose of having a smaller camera in the first place.

reh321 · 04-20-2021, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by jct us101

What I don't get with mirrorless cameras is that with such a huge reliance on software correction - you'd think they could keep the size down a bit. The Fuji 90mm is so absurdly large it's upsetting. Sure it's sharp but it negates the purpose of having a smaller camera in the first place.

True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF.

**ThorSanchez** · 04-20-2021, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by reh321

True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF.

I don't know how you define "true" but there are a lot of people who shoot mirrorless cameras like the smaller Fujis who do so explicitly because the system can be far smaller than almost any DSLR+lens combination.

reh321 · 04-20-2021, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

I don't know how you define "true" but there are a lot of people who shoot mirrorless cameras like the smaller Fujis who do so explicitly because the system can be far smaller than almost any DSLR+lens combination.

Lenses are smaller only for those close to the flange distance - some ignorant people don't know that, but the knowledgeable people do.

jct us101 · 04-20-2021, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by reh321

True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF.

I don't really know if the EVF is an advantage having used both. Sure you can kinda see the end result in manual mode before you take the photo, but I don't think a lot of people even use their Fuji cameras that way (dials for every setting but I always see basically what is aperture priority activated)

house · 04-20-2021, 10:39 AM

It's obviously still an advantage to be able to choose what size/performance ratio you want. The FA43 to DFA*85 range of size is generally available for milcs as well.

Speaking of milcs the Sony 20mm F1.8 is $900 what aperture and price do you expect of the DFA21? The FA31 is about $1k.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
DA 21 or HD DA 21 What's the right price?	brightseal	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	16	08-13-2019 05:58 AM
I just bought three lenses, I should really sell one, but which one...	dmbaile2	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	21	01-27-2015 06:42 PM
Wanted - Acquired: FA 43 Limited, DA 21 Limited, DA 15 Limited	jgmankos	Sold Items	0	05-14-2011 10:13 AM
DA 21 LE vs CARL ZEISS DISTAGON T* 21/2.8 ZF	yipchunyu	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	4	10-06-2009 06:51 PM
One dog. Three portraits. Three different emotions.	Mindaugas	Post Your Photos!	2	05-05-2009 08:33 PM

04-20-2021, 07:11 AM	#1381
Smolk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eerbeek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	I've mentioned in a separate thread how the Nikon Z 14-30mm suffers from barrel distortion, but it's completely corrected by software. There were suggestions by people who understand this far better than I that this may have consequences for colour. In practice, I don't think the differences will be huge. Perhaps it should be possible to turn correction on or off according to the demands of the situation.

04-20-2021, 07:24 AM	#1382
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	Originally posted by Smolk I've mentioned in a separate thread how the Nikon Z 14-30mm suffers from barrel distortion, but it's completely corrected by software. Having an EVF, do the Nikon Z cameras display the correction in real time while viewing? That function would be useful, I would think. - Craig

04-20-2021, 07:27 AM - 2 Likes	#1383
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by robbiec Imagine you have a group of 10 people, get them to stand in a close curve around you. You'll get them all in and if you do it well, no distortion When I was shooting weddings, that was one of the things I did with the group pictures. While other shooters would just line them up and shoot them down, I was running a string from tripod to B&G, and then ensuring the group was lined up in an arc around the field curvature distance. This was especially important with very large groups. The biggest group I shot was over 200 people. We used three portable bleachers for the people to sit on, and put the outer two at an angle to compensate for the field curvature on the Pentax 6x7 75/4.5 lens.

04-20-2021, 08:22 AM	#1384
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by c.a.m Having an EVF, do the Nikon Z cameras display the correction in real time while viewing? That function would be useful, I would think. - Craig Based on the blinking light, my KP takes several seconds to ‘develop’ an image, including lens correction. I would think that “pin-cushion” correction would take too much time to be done in real time.

04-20-2021, 08:29 AM	#1385
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by TwoUptons That’s not unique to mirrorless. Ricoh could implement that in SLRs and take that approach. They already offer some level of lens correction in-camera. They just haven’t taken the Sony approach to aggressive correction... -Eric No it's not possible with dslr's because your framing will be wrong. The evf corrects the view so that you won't be surprised when bit's of the frame is chopped off.

04-20-2021, 09:24 AM	#1386
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,223	Originally posted by house No it's not possible with dslr's because your framing will be wrong. The evf corrects the view so that you won't be surprised when bit's of the frame is chopped off. That doesn’t make it impossible. Assuming a 100% viewfinder (like the K1), the framing should be very close since the sensor can’t capture something the viewfinder isn’t seeing. Obviously, things could look different in the final image in ways we wouldn’t all be happy with. It would also depend on how that’s implemented. Vignette correction would seem to be pretty easy, though. My 16-50 has pretty significant correction. Obviously, I don’t get to watch it through the OVF, and it’s mild enough to not bother me, but I can sure see it happen when using live view, especially at 16mm. -Eric

04-20-2021, 09:51 AM	#1387
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Distortion corrections pushes things out of the frame unless you want an image with curved sides. I don't think many photographers would be happy about being able to frame accurately. Small amounts is fine for casual work but some mirrorless lenses show a lot of distortion. See Leica Q2 for instance.

04-20-2021, 10:18 AM	#1388
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,223	Originally posted by house Distortion corrections pushes things out of the frame unless you want an image with curved sides. I don't think many photographers would be happy about being able to frame accurately. Small amounts is fine for casual work but some mirrorless lenses show a lot of distortion. See Leica Q2 for instance. No doubt, though I think back to my early days with the K1000 or Super Program with what, a 93% viewfinder? I’d miss tight framing a lot with those...and have to crop in later in the darkroom. We’re so spoiled these days... And there’s always a threshold. I guess at some point the distortion becomes really hard to correct and unacceptable no matter how fancy the algorithm. -Eric

04-20-2021, 10:24 AM	#1389
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by TwoUptons No doubt, though I think back to my early days with the K1000 or Super Program with what, a 93% viewfinder? I’d miss tight framing a lot with those...and have to crop in later in the darkroom. We’re so spoiled these days... At some point I found myself shooting too tightly with my "Super Program" - I give more of a 'cushion' these days ..... I had enough film - now I have enough pixels.

04-20-2021, 10:25 AM	#1390
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	What I don't get with mirrorless cameras is that with such a huge reliance on software correction - you'd think they could keep the size down a bit. The Fuji 90mm is so absurdly large it's upsetting. Sure it's sharp but it negates the purpose of having a smaller camera in the first place.

04-20-2021, 10:26 AM	#1391
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by jct us101 What I don't get with mirrorless cameras is that with such a huge reliance on software correction - you'd think they could keep the size down a bit. The Fuji 90mm is so absurdly large it's upsetting. Sure it's sharp but it negates the purpose of having a smaller camera in the first place. True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF.

04-20-2021, 10:29 AM	#1392
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,807	Originally posted by reh321 True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF. I don't know how you define "true" but there are a lot of people who shoot mirrorless cameras like the smaller Fujis who do so explicitly because the system can be far smaller than almost any DSLR+lens combination.

04-20-2021, 10:33 AM	#1393
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by ThorSanchez I don't know how you define "true" but there are a lot of people who shoot mirrorless cameras like the smaller Fujis who do so explicitly because the system can be far smaller than almost any DSLR+lens combination. Lenses are smaller only for those close to the flange distance - some ignorant people don't know that, but the knowledgeable people do.

04-20-2021, 10:35 AM	#1394
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	Originally posted by reh321 True MILC devotees don't claim any size advantage - they say the advantage is in the EVF. I don't really know if the EVF is an advantage having used both. Sure you can kinda see the end result in manual mode before you take the photo, but I don't think a lot of people even use their Fuji cameras that way (dials for every setting but I always see basically what is aperture priority activated)

04-20-2021, 10:39 AM	#1395
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	It's obviously still an advantage to be able to choose what size/performance ratio you want. The FA43 to DFA*85 range of size is generally available for milcs as well. Speaking of milcs the Sony 20mm F1.8 is $900 what aperture and price do you expect of the DFA21? The FA31 is about $1k.