HD Pentax DA * 16-50mm F2.8ED PLM AW is the second one.

**shardulm** · 11-22-2020, 06:08 AM

$1296 at launch.
Pentax should offer a pre-order discount of $400 to get a superb headstart into the sale of this lens. $896 and I will jump in on a pre-order.

**pres589** · 11-22-2020, 06:40 AM - **1 Like**

Ricoh has no reason to give a 30% or greater discount at the start. It will cause issues with customer expectations as well as reduce margins. I don't like the idea of spending that much on a lens but I'm not really the target market for that lens either. Don't like it, go get a Sigma.

**shardulm** · 11-22-2020, 08:24 AM - **2 Likes**

I have 2 DA*s and I like Pentax's rendering so much it is just not easy to justify switching over to a Sigma tbh.

Ricoh is changing as far as I can see. They are showing up more often than before with their product updates and roadmaps and progress.
Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run. It is a 24-70FF equivalent so most pentax da* fan base will want to own it at $896 almost sooner than later.
Pentax marketing if they are reading this should utilize this standard and very successful marketing practice. I hope their marketing department is changing and moving into these successful and proven strategies.
DA*s aren't for people who are seeking equivalents in other brands for the obvious reasons. But they are for people who are already sold on to the DA* standards and IQ. I do not believe Sigma/Tamron customers should think of switching out unless they are convinced. For a lot of people price remains a priority (including me) but their * lenses are best in class. I expect no less on this DA* either.

**pres589** · 11-22-2020, 08:44 AM

If it's what you want, you'll probably find the money, eventually. I understand wanting a Pentax lens over a Sigma (although Sigma has made some great glass for k-mount in the past, along with a number of duds). Ricoh will figure out if they want higher margins and fewer sales vs. greater volume and lower margins for early adopters. I doubt that many more people would buy at $900 vs $1300, honestly.

thibs · 11-22-2020, 10:01 AM

If this new DA* is of comparable quality to DFA*... It should be very good. And quite expensive.

Do they consider DA* equals quality-wise to DFA*, I dunno.

MMVIII · 11-22-2020, 10:18 AM - **1 Like**

Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version.

thibs · 11-22-2020, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version.

Seems reasonable thinking to me.

**TwoUptons** · 11-22-2020, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version.

Exactly, and as a refresh entering into a market very different from the one when the original 16-50 was introduced, I expect it will begin a good deal higher than that.

Not to say there won’t be some good deals on its predecessor, though...

-Eric

superdave · 11-22-2020, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by STARHUNTER94

Is there any real speculation on what the launch price will be?

Trying to figure out how bad it will be in CAD$...

I would say about the same price as fuji 16-55 and Sony 16-55 which are both modern excellent quality lenses. In euros 1150€ while the 11-18 is priced 1400€. Or it can cost less, as DFA16-35 is more expensive than 11-18, we can expect that 16-50 to be less expensive than DFA24-70. I only hope that it is top quality and it is released in 2021...

**jatrax** · 11-22-2020, 01:34 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by shardulm

Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run. It is a 24-70FF equivalent so most pentax da* fan base will want to own it at $896 almost sooner than later.Pentax marketing if they are reading this should utilize this standard and very successful marketing practice. I hope their marketing department is changing and moving into these successful and proven strategies.

I doubt it. Those "strategies" work in a competitive market, especially when trying to drum up reviews. But Pentax is (almost) a monopoly. They don't care about reviews. The strategy that Ricoh will use is to start with a very high price to get the early adopters and then slowly adjust the price to get to the expected sales volume. If the list price is the $1,296 you state then that will be the price until the initial purchase surge has completed. After that they will adjust if needed to move the production run during the expected time frame.
Any expectation of a pre-order discount is just wishful thinking.

**sbh** · 11-22-2020, 03:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by thibs

If this new DA* is of comparable quality to DFA*... It should be very good. And quite expensive.

Do they consider DA* equals quality-wise to DFA*, I dunno.

Sure, why not? On the new ones the iq is even higher. Star lenses are the top end what’s possible in this price range.

thibs · 11-22-2020, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by sbh

Sure, why not? On the new ones the iq is even higher. Star lenses are the top end what’s possible in this price range.

I hope so (quality-wise) but hope not (price-wise).
We'll know soon enough...

angerdan · 11-22-2020, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by shardulm

$1296 at launch.

I expect a similar price tag.
Keep in mind that comparable APS-C lenses with silent motor mostly are more expensive than the old DA* 16-50mm now and 2007.
Produktvergleich Nikon AF-S DX 17-55mm 2.8G IF-ED schwarz (JAA788DA), Sony E 16-55mm 2.8 G (SEL1655G), Fujifilm Fujinon XF 16-55mm 2.8 R LM WR (16443072), Samsung NX 16-50mm 2.0-2.8 S ED OIS i-Function schwarz (EX-S1650ASB), Pentax smc DA 16-50mm 2.8
Pentax DA* 16-50 ebay | In der Grafik - in the chart: UVP= o? | Flickr

**clackers** · 11-22-2020, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by shardulm

Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run.

It runs counter to normal pricing strategies, which is to sell at one price point to the early adopters who *must* have the lens, then another price point later on to those who'd like one.

Because this is a premium lens, not a T-shirt or a soft drink, each person who buys at the second price instead of the first is lost income for little Ricoh imaging - and a lot.

**mlt** · 11-22-2020, 09:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

It runs counter to normal pricing strategies, which is to sell at one price point to the early adopters who *must* have the lens, then another price point later on to those who'd like one.

Because this is a premium lens, not a T-shirt or a soft drink, each person who buys at the second price instead of the first is lost income for little Ricoh imaging - and a lot.

No deep discounts on the D FA* 50 and 85, so that pattern will probably continue on any future * lens releases.

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11-22-2020, 06:08 AM	#61
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793 Original Poster	$1296 at launch. Pentax should offer a pre-order discount of $400 to get a superb headstart into the sale of this lens. $896 and I will jump in on a pre-order.

11-22-2020, 06:40 AM - 1 Like	#62
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Ricoh has no reason to give a 30% or greater discount at the start. It will cause issues with customer expectations as well as reduce margins. I don't like the idea of spending that much on a lens but I'm not really the target market for that lens either. Don't like it, go get a Sigma.

11-22-2020, 08:24 AM - 2 Likes	#63
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793 Original Poster	I have 2 DAs and I like Pentax's rendering so much it is just not easy to justify switching over to a Sigma tbh. Ricoh is changing as far as I can see. They are showing up more often than before with their product updates and roadmaps and progress. Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run. It is a 24-70FF equivalent so most pentax da fan base will want to own it at $896 almost sooner than later. Pentax marketing if they are reading this should utilize this standard and very successful marketing practice. I hope their marketing department is changing and moving into these successful and proven strategies. DAs aren't for people who are seeking equivalents in other brands for the obvious reasons. But they are for people who are already sold on to the DA standards and IQ. I do not believe Sigma/Tamron customers should think of switching out unless they are convinced. For a lot of people price remains a priority (including me) but their * lenses are best in class. I expect no less on this DA* either.

11-22-2020, 08:44 AM	#64
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	If it's what you want, you'll probably find the money, eventually. I understand wanting a Pentax lens over a Sigma (although Sigma has made some great glass for k-mount in the past, along with a number of duds). Ricoh will figure out if they want higher margins and fewer sales vs. greater volume and lower margins for early adopters. I doubt that many more people would buy at $900 vs $1300, honestly.

11-22-2020, 10:01 AM	#65
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	If this new DA* is of comparable quality to DFA... It should be very good. And quite expensive. Do they consider DA equals quality-wise to DFA*, I dunno.

11-22-2020, 10:18 AM - 1 Like	#66
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version.

11-22-2020, 10:19 AM	#67
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by MMVIII Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version. Seems reasonable thinking to me.

11-22-2020, 11:07 AM	#68
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Originally posted by MMVIII Well, in contrast to the DFA 21limited, this is a lens that is replacing a n already existing standard zoom for APS-C cameras that is sold from Ricoh for 1100€ in their webshop. With this we have the lowest limit for the range of the introductory price for the new version. Exactly, and as a refresh entering into a market very different from the one when the original 16-50 was introduced, I expect it will begin a good deal higher than that. Not to say there won’t be some good deals on its predecessor, though... -Eric

11-22-2020, 12:22 PM	#69
superdave Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 228	Originally posted by STARHUNTER94 Is there any real speculation on what the launch price will be? Trying to figure out how bad it will be in CAD$... I would say about the same price as fuji 16-55 and Sony 16-55 which are both modern excellent quality lenses. In euros 1150€ while the 11-18 is priced 1400€. Or it can cost less, as DFA16-35 is more expensive than 11-18, we can expect that 16-50 to be less expensive than DFA24-70. I only hope that it is top quality and it is released in 2021...

11-22-2020, 01:34 PM - 1 Like	#70
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by shardulm Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run. It is a 24-70FF equivalent so most pentax da* fan base will want to own it at $896 almost sooner than later.Pentax marketing if they are reading this should utilize this standard and very successful marketing practice. I hope their marketing department is changing and moving into these successful and proven strategies. I doubt it. Those "strategies" work in a competitive market, especially when trying to drum up reviews. But Pentax is (almost) a monopoly. They don't care about reviews. The strategy that Ricoh will use is to start with a very high price to get the early adopters and then slowly adjust the price to get to the expected sales volume. If the list price is the $1,296 you state then that will be the price until the initial purchase surge has completed. After that they will adjust if needed to move the production run during the expected time frame. Any expectation of a pre-order discount is just wishful thinking.

11-22-2020, 03:32 PM - 1 Like	#71
sbh Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Black Forest, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 849	Originally posted by thibs If this new DA* is of comparable quality to DFA... It should be very good. And quite expensive. Do they consider DA equals quality-wise to DFA*, I dunno. Sure, why not? On the new ones the iq is even higher. Star lenses are the top end what’s possible in this price range.

11-22-2020, 04:00 PM	#72
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by sbh Sure, why not? On the new ones the iq is even higher. Star lenses are the top end what’s possible in this price range. I hope so (quality-wise) but hope not (price-wise). We'll know soon enough...

11-22-2020, 04:28 PM	#73
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by shardulm $1296 at launch. I expect a similar price tag. Keep in mind that comparable APS-C lenses with silent motor mostly are more expensive than the old DA* 16-50mm now and 2007. Produktvergleich Nikon AF-S DX 17-55mm 2.8G IF-ED schwarz (JAA788DA), Sony E 16-55mm 2.8 G (SEL1655G), Fujifilm Fujinon XF 16-55mm 2.8 R LM WR (16443072), Samsung NX 16-50mm 2.0-2.8 S ED OIS i-Function schwarz (EX-S1650ASB), Pentax smc DA 16-50mm 2.8 Pentax DA* 16-50 ebay \| In der Grafik - in the chart: UVP= o? \| Flickr

11-22-2020, 05:51 PM	#74
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by shardulm Pre-order pricing is a marketing strategy to get a bunch of people in to have the lens sell well in the short/long run. It runs counter to normal pricing strategies, which is to sell at one price point to the early adopters who must have the lens, then another price point later on to those who'd like one. Because this is a premium lens, not a T-shirt or a soft drink, each person who buys at the second price instead of the first is lost income for little Ricoh imaging - and a lot.

11-22-2020, 09:14 PM - 1 Like	#75
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Originally posted by clackers It runs counter to normal pricing strategies, which is to sell at one price point to the early adopters who must have the lens, then another price point later on to those who'd like one. Because this is a premium lens, not a T-shirt or a soft drink, each person who buys at the second price instead of the first is lost income for little Ricoh imaging - and a lot. No deep discounts on the D FA* 50 and 85, so that pattern will probably continue on any future * lens releases.