[Chris Mak]

True the Dynamic Range and malleability of RAWs out of a sony sensored' camera is indeed spoiling.


I'm sure there will be improved crop Z bodies sooner than later too. The Z 50 was more a consumer entry stepping point into deeper waters.



Either way, we have lots of options.

I have the Z7, and after the latest firmware update is a véry nice birding camera, much better than I expected. It has a 21mp DX crop mode, so essentially is FF and APS-C in one body.

[Zygonyx]

OK, but useless powerless ... the main of the many reasons ML are a NoGo for me.

[c.a.m]

Unfortunately keeping within a design philosophy and end price tiers requires compromises. If Ricoh were to design a camera that has every single feature that people "want/need" it would so cumbersome and expensive no PENTAX aficionado would want to use it or afford to buy it or would constantly be in the design phase as more and more features are added.

Great point.

This is a classic design problem. Sometimes, the overall design trades can boil down to the popular triad of cost/price, performance, and development timeline ("pick two"). For the design team, the many competing design and market drivers -- each having their own weights of importance -- often need to be 'scrubbed' to arrive at an optimal overall design solution.

In this instance, the 'ideal' hypothetical new camera that fully satisfies all potential users would need to include every pet function and level of performance, an almost instantaneous development and launch timeline, and a modest price point. As we've seen, online comments suggest that to keep everyone happy, almost every conceivable feature found in other brands would need to be included in the new Pentax. Clearly, an impossibility for the designers.

So, the team negotiates with their managers and internal customers to arrive at an agreed set of requirements. In the case of this new camera, I would think that the designers have considered almost every possible requirement, feature, and performance level. They are well aware of the other brands and models. They've worked through numerous development meetings, requirements reviews, design reviews, etc to arrive at the final design.

The quality of the design will depend on the overall strategy and philosophy; the imagination, skill, and expertise of the developers; and the readiness of certain technologies.


- Craig

[jacamar]

I focus on trying to make the most of my own equipment and not spending too much time debating the merits of multiple cameras and lenses. I have been using my K-3 since 2015 and my DA*300mm and DA 1.4xTC since before that time (previously on a K-r), and I have a limited range of macro and other lenses. I do primarily birding, nature and the odd incidental landscapes and building shots. These are the practical, day-to-day things I would like to see from a K-3 successor:
Would form part of a good, compact and intuitive/user-friendly birding outfit that can go in carry-on luggage without attracting attention (though I won't be needing that for a while!)
Rock solid in terms of reliability - no mirror flipping or mysterious outages. I don't want to think about having to carry a backup DSLR when I travel.
The outfit has produced a lot of very satisfying bird pics taken in difficult conditions but there are times when I miss shots due to slow focusing - warblers especially - that can be very frustrating so I would like to see improvement there using my current lenses.
I'm often working in low light conditions and end up with noisy images that are not ideal even after PP so better performance at higher ISOs would be appreciated.
I have taken some very satisfying bird in flight shots with the K-3, but I believe I would have a higher success rate with better tracking.
I don't do as much macro as I used to but I want the capability to be there. I'm moving into my less flexible years so a flip or flex-tilt screen would be appreciated. In-camera stacking would be even better.
I like the image quality of my current outfit, and the ability to get away with heavy crops. If that can be improved further, so much the better.
I may be impressed with a new viewfinder when I see it, but for me I haven't thought about it as a priority.
I'll be excited to handle the new camera and see what it can do.

---

Last edited by jacamar; 05-15-2020 at 01:23 PM.

[Chris Mak]

But aren't you thrilled with the relatively petite 500PF vs the monstrous DA560?

Absolutely! The 500PF is a little masterpiece. Just throw it in a small backpack on the Z7, and you will hardly notice it's there. To me, it is a grounbreaking product, and an absolute joy to shoot with. It even has good distance performance.

But it does not take a tc very well, and for dedicated birding trips I would want something a bit longer with more distance power. I don't mind if it is heavier, just as long as it is not (much) above 3 kg.


When I switched from the DA560 to the Canon 400DOII with 1.4tc and 2.0tc, I was shocked at how weak the perfomance was in bright spring daylight over distance, but also closer up. I am not a person that always goes out in the golden light of morning or dusk, but also like the brutal clarity of full midday sunlight. I only realized how well the DA560 performed all along in these "brutal" circumstances after I made the switch to Canon. It is really a lens that you can use in all types of light and all circumstances, and at all distances. The Canon 400DOII for sure was handicapped by the obligatory use of a tc, but still, I was shocked at how severely the images were affected by atmospherics or just plain harsh light. In gentle evening or autumn light though, the images were very good.

The Nikon 500PF for sure is better, but still does not perform like the DA560 when things get "tough", larger distance or more difficult light.
I could save up for the Nikon 500mm f4FL, the lightest f4 500mm prime around, the same weight as the DA560 (but smaller). But then it would need the 1.4TC to get beyond 500mm, and I might run into the same issues again.
All in all, 60mm extra may not seem much, but it is. My preferred lens would be a high quality 600mm f5.6, but we all know nobody makes such a lens....

[Pål Jensen]

Flip screens are essentially standard on cameras now beyond specialist gear and really tiny stuff. I've found the KP's flip screen to be incredibly useful and I actually prefer this format to the fully articulating screen on my Panasonic G85. Well, not for video, I guess, but for stills.

I honestly wouldn't buy a camera in 2020 without a flip screen. Not trying to offend anyone with a different opinion, but it makes so many things so much easier. Waist level shots of my kids is the biggest thing, but it makes everything easier.

I wonder how we managed in the film days...

[Rondec]

I guess I'm not surprised by the negativity, but honestly, it feels a bit overblown. I don't know why Pentax chose not to include a flippy screen. Maybe to hit a cost point, maybe to hold size down, but it isn't the end of the world to use a combination of a (really nice) OVF and a rear LCD that doesn't flip. My K-1 has one, but honestly, I forget most of the time that I am using it and even when I am using the rear LCD I don't flip it.

The big message to me is that Pentax has been working on a number of K mount items -- some full frame and some APS-C and they aren't abandoning the mount, despite constant nay-sayers here and elsewhere predicting their demise.

[mee]

I have the Z7, and after the latest firmware update is a véry nice birding camera, much better than I expected. It has a 21mp DX crop mode, so essentially is FF and APS-C in one body.

The plus with that is the viewfinder is filled with the image regardless of mode. It is a nice feature.

[repaap]

The problem with using a smartphone is that you need an accessory (an articulating arm) to hold the phone unless the camera is tripod-mounted.

Yes, or bend down to actually look where you are pointing that thing. I'm not saying that it(tilting screen) is not handy. It is. But that is what it is. I believe what I mean is that still even that tilting screen it is still cumbersome at the times and not ideal, for me. For me if everything else would be great, it would not be a dealbreaker. But for some it seems to be. I'm still waiting for what the next FF will be like. But if this K-new is sporting some really nice features, it might be hard to pass it by. . . that is if I have still money left after 85 and that 21 . . .

[Henrico]

Having a K1 this camera is it's small version on steroids (I hope, waiting for specs). All buttons are right on the same place.

A fixed back screen will not be a strong selling point, maybe the relative big top screen could be used for live view also? All we can do is sit and wait...

Ricoh's philosophy I think is to support the Pentax user base with only real neccesary updates from time to time for K-mount without loosing money. Doing so they stay connected to imaging devellopments. They have no ambitions to compete with the market leaders. Interesting is what future 645 has, I guess it will disappear just like Q.

I still use my K1ii and K01 frequently with modern and old manual lenses. I like both cameras a lot and they produce state of the art pictures. I like the robustness of the bodies, they never let me down.

Besides my smartphone I often also take my old Sony R1 with me during travelling abroad. It is slow and clumsy but with the fixed CZ 24-120 it makes beautifull 10 Mp pictures in normal circumstances. The EVF and articulating screen at the top of the camera are clever designed. It's a quiet mirrorless sneaky tool that takes nice pictures of your children without they are noticing it. That's not gonna happen with this K-new...

[mee]

I guess I'm not surprised by the negativity, but honestly, it feels a bit overblown. I don't know why Pentax chose not to include a flippy screen. Maybe to hit a cost point, maybe to hold size down, but it isn't the end of the world to use a combination of a (really nice) OVF and a rear LCD that doesn't flip. My K-1 has one, but honestly, I forget most of the time that I am using it and even when I am using the rear LCD I don't flip it.

The big message to me is that Pentax has been working on a number of K mount items -- some full frame and some APS-C and they aren't abandoning the mount, despite constant nay-sayers here and elsewhere predicting their demise.

I see foremost a lot of people excited by the new camera body and the new lenses being announced (did you miss the D-FA 21mm Limited ??) . And some not pleased with the lack of a flip screen (that they seemingly would use). I haven't actually seen any demise posts here, unless I missed them.


But complaining about the complainers makes one also a complainer..

[mee]

Having a K1 this camera is it's small version on steroids (I hope, waiting for specs). All buttons are right on the same place.

A fixed back screen will not be a strong selling point, maybe the relative big top screen could be used for live view also? All we can do is sit and wait...

Yes I wonder if the flip screen is absent because they have a smartphone app to 'replace' it? Still another device to carry around, but at least it could be some form of a solution. That or strapping a pocket mirror to the rear screen

[Wheatfield]

Seconded. I rarely ever use it. Next topic is video. I NEVER use it.



That's why I'm glad that I bought DA560 and regret that I didn't buy Sigma 500 f/4.5 at the right time. I hate to say it but tele seems to be no priority for Ricoh/Pentax anymore.

Video is something I couldn't care less about, but I recognize that others do, and that Pentax lags in this area. Well, lets face it, its another area that Pentax lags in. My understanding is that Ricoh is fleshing out the lens line based on customer surveys, though I could be wrong and they are throwing darts at a board while blindfolded.
When they released the K1, they made sure to have focal lengths from 15mm to 450mm covered with the three zooms. They are taking their sweet time about it, but are now fleshing out the primes based on, I guess, the wants of some focus group.
The 50mm was most wanted, I know it was the lens I was waiting for. The 85 coming next is another highly desirable focal length, again, I'm lucky enough to be very happy about it. For me it's a high desirability focal length. I'm not so big on the 21, but I'll buy it for the cachet value and the fact I do like ultrawides. I would have preferred a fast 24, and who knows that might be next. I'd expect them to come out with a wide, then a tele, then a wide, then a tele, etc, extending the range out in steps from 50mm. We have the 50, we are getting the 85, the Limited is kind of a one off, so I'm guessing a 28, then a 135, another wide, probably a 24, then a 200, and on and on. You will probably get your 600, but if you are past 60 years old, you might not live long enough to see it unless Ricoh really kicks things up a few notches.

---------- Post added May 15th, 2020 at 02:49 PM ----------

Yes I wonder if the flip screen is absent because they have a smartphone app to 'replace' it? Still another device to carry around, but at least it could be some form of a solution. That or strapping a pocket mirror to the rear screen

Lets face it, we all have a cell phone tied to us now, and if we don't, they are really cheap to buy.

[mee]

Video is something I couldn't care less about, but I recognize that others do, and that Pentax lags in this area. Well, lets face it, its another area that Pentax lags in. My understanding is that Ricoh is fleshing out the lens line based on customer surveys, though I could be wrong and they are throwing darts at a board while blindfolded.
When they released the K1, they made sure to have focal lengths from 15mm to 450mm covered with the three zooms. They are taking their sweet time about it, but are now fleshing out the primes based on, I guess, the wants of some focus group.
The 50mm was most wanted, I know it was the lens I was waiting for. The 85 coming next is another highly desirable focal length, again, I'm lucky enough to be very happy about it. For me it's a high desirability focal length. I'm not so big on the 21, but I'll buy it for the cachet value and the fact I do like ultrawides. I would have preferred a fast 24, and who knows that might be next. I'd expect them to come out with a wide, then a tele, then a wide, then a tele, etc, extending the range out in steps from 50mm. We have the 50, we are getting the 85, the Limited is kind of a one off, so I'm guessing a 28, then a 135, another wide, probably a 24, then a 200, and on and on. You will probably get your 600, but if you are past 60 years old, you might not live long enough to see it unless Ricoh really kicks things up a few notches.

I remember seeing Pentax surveys on desired lenses some 3 years ago that I participated in (I know at least one of them was offered by Ricoh). Near the top was a 24-104 f/4, 70-200mm f/4 and updated primes, though the exact ones are foggy right now. So it does seem plausible that they are working based off of those surveys.

They're just really slowwww.

[mee]

Lets face it, we all have a cell phone tied to us now, and if we don't, they are really cheap to buy.

True. Yet it was more functional to have the screen attached to the camera body. Especially when hand holding the camera in an awkward angle. It seems like it would be a bit more difficult to do with a smartphone in one hand and a camera in the other.