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05-16-2020, 10:14 AM - 3 Likes   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Maybe frozen body parts though.
Something about Pentax system and compact packages...

I'll show myself out

05-16-2020, 10:17 AM - 1 Like   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
I suppose that we will have to wait and see about that flippyness. Who knows? There might be not something to pull, but rather push, and it will flip up 45 degree.
There's those who don't know what they don't know.
There's those who think they know things that aren't true.
There are those who think they know something based on the probability that something is true.

Those three positions are indistinguishable until you know, 100%
The smart position, is "I'm not committing one way or the other until I know."

Schrödinger's cat and all that.
We don't know anything 100% until we can look in the box, despite all the people who claim other wise.
Many seem to confuse the probable, with the real.
05-16-2020, 10:24 AM - 2 Likes   #198
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I am excited about this camera and appreciate the thought and effort they are putting into it.
05-16-2020, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
K-newII will have GPS and Tilt screen. I can feel it.

It always takes them until the II version to get it right.


05-16-2020, 10:26 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There's those who don't know what they don't know.
There's those who think they know things that aren't true.
There are those who think they know something based on the probability that something is true.

Those three positions are indistinguishable until you know, 100%
The smart position, is "I'm not committing one way or the other until I know."

Schrödinger's cat and all that.
We don't know anything 100% until we can look in the box, despite all the people who claim other wise.
Many seem to confuse the probable, with the real.
And then there is the guy who has had everything all the time, but just did not know that there was ’that thing’ too, before someone pointed it out. My bet is that it is fixed screen and that is that. They wanted to keep the fixed screen from successor. They seem to be really excited about overal performance, so none of the team even thought about that screen to be more than to be something to check your capture, or adjust functions...because they where just shooting, all day.
05-16-2020, 10:32 AM - 7 Likes   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
They seem to be really excited about overal performance, so none of the team even thought about that screen to be more than to be something to check your capture, or adjust functions...because they where just shooting, all day.
I don't believe there's a single feature we could think of that Ricoh hasn't carefully considered. Every design aspect, every feature, every control, button, line, curve... it's all 100% deliberate. Whether the screen is fixed or flippy, it will have been a conscious decision with a good reason behind it. Some of us may agree with the decision and some may not, but Ricoh will have its reasons. Nothing is by accident...
05-16-2020, 10:36 AM - 5 Likes   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
K-newII will have GPS and Tilt screen. I can feel it.

It always takes them until the II version to get it right.
The original K-1 was a home run.

05-16-2020, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
It can. An F1 car running circles around a high-end commercial car is irrelevant if the user doesn't want to go faster than a bike. If you never use AF.C, or if you don't run into the buffer/framerate limits, the K-new won't have compelling improvements.
Failure to get this point is common on this site.

Judging from other apsc releases the K-new is unlikely to have anything but minor IQ improvements over the K-7/KP. Improvements will be in other areas. We know about the viewfinder and quite a few suspect that words like 'dynamism' suggest a deep buffer and perhaps some improvements to AF-C tracking. Most are also guessing that it will be a reasonably expensive camera.

I've sort of posted this before:

1. Own a flip screen camera (k-70, KP, K-1) need flip ---> Don't purchase K-new. Your style of photography is better suited to one of the cameras you own.
2. Own a flip screen camera (k-70, KP, K-1) need speed + flip ---> Add the K-new to your kit for those dynamic photo sessions
3. Own a flip screen camera (k-70, KP, K-1) need mainly speed ---> Sell your old bodies and purchase K-new
4. Don't own any Pentax camera ---> Pick the one that fit's your use case. Field camera, everyday and travel companion, enthusiast generalist, dynamic camera
5. Own all sorts of gear is a collector or has shopping as a hobby ---> Purchase K-new regardless of what it does as a camera
6. Own all sorts of gear need new camera that has all features ---> Reconsider, you're doing it wrong

Last edited by house; 05-16-2020 at 11:44 AM. Reason: 70 no 7
05-16-2020, 10:56 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
For Pete's sake, there is no notch for pulling out any sort of a flippy screen! And no amount of twisting the camera around would make one appear!
We saw the camera from pretty much every angle. Yes, it's the protruding viewfinder, the eye sensor - those can't reasonably be mistaken for an articulated mechanism.


Don't!
Flogging a dead horse won't give results, ever. Find another camera, or even another brand if you must - this one's screen is fixed.
Just debunking the idea that there IS a flippy screen, as some are still hoping for. As my hope was FOR a flippy screen, and I see that there is NONE, I'm just showing that a preference does not automatically induce grasping at the straws of hope.

So, to be clear, I'm NOT pushing for a fantasy that this camera has a flippy screen. You are over-reacting to my analysis that I find that there is NO FLIPPY SCREEN on this camera, even though I would prefer that there was one. I support your position against those who are still grasping at those straws.

Clear?
05-16-2020, 11:17 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Failure to get this point is common on this site.

Judging from other apsc releases the K-new is unlikely to have anything but minor IQ improvements over the K-7/KP. Improvements will be in other areas. We know about the viewfinder and quite a few suspect that words like 'dynamism' suggest a deep buffer and perhaps some improvements to AF-C tracking. Most are also guessing that it will be a reasonably expensive camera.

I've sort of posted this before:

1. Own a flip screen camera (k-7, KP, K-1) need flip ---> Don't purchase K-new. Your style of photography is better suited to one of the cameras you own.
2. Own a flip screen camera (k-7, KP, K-1) need speed + flip ---> Add the K-new to your kit for those dynamic photo sessions
2. Own a flip screen camera (k-7, KP, K-1) need mainly speed ---> Sell your old bodies and purchase K-new
3. Don't own any Pentax camera ---> Pick the one that fit's your use case. Field camera, everyday and travel companion, enthusiast generalist, dynamic camera
4. Own all sort of gear need new camera that has all features ---> Reconsider, you're doing it wrong
Exactly. I feel like most of the disconnect comes because some people don't mind having specialist cameras and switching according to what's needed (the right tool for the right job) while others have their reasons for wanting all-terrain bodies that can handle everything even if they aren't the best at anything specific. Personally, I'm on the second camp, but there's no right or wrong here - and Ricoh has clearly positioned the K-new as a specialist camera. We will see which sensor it uses, but it certainly won't be much better than the KP... because there's no APS-C sensor on the market that is
05-16-2020, 11:32 AM - 1 Like   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Exactly. I feel like most of the disconnect comes because some people don't mind having specialist cameras and switching according to what's needed (the right tool for the right job) while others have their reasons for wanting all-terrain bodies that can handle everything even if they aren't the best at anything specific. Personally, I'm on the second camp, but there's no right or wrong here - and Ricoh has clearly positioned the K-new as a specialist camera. We will see which sensor it uses, but it certainly won't be much better than the KP... because there's no APS-C sensor on the market that is
At the root this dissonance between purpose and general cameras in the minds of Pentax’ customer base is the result of not spending the money to properly market the cameras. Ricoh designers can have all the logical reasons in the world for product design decisions but if the marketing doesn’t present them well and repeatedly, users and reviewers are prone to evaluate the camera against their projections and preconceptions rather than against the design brief.
05-16-2020, 11:37 AM - 2 Likes   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Own a flip screen camera (k-7, KP, K-1) need flip
The K-7 doesn't have a flip/tilt screen. You must mean the K-70

K-7


K-70


What makes me shake my head are the K-3/5/7 owners that say lack of a movable screen is a deal breaker. Why is it a deal breaker now and when you purchased the K-3/5/7? Does the lack of the feature keep you from taking pictures with your current APS-C? What made you choose Pentax in the first place?

If you don't own Pentax my guess is it is better to focus on perceived or real negatives because if you focus on positives like image quality and performance and features per price most of the competition comes out behind.
05-16-2020, 11:44 AM - 2 Likes   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
The K-7 doesn't have a flip/tilt screen. You must mean the K-70
Indeed! I copy pasta the typo multiple times.
05-16-2020, 11:50 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I don't believe there's a single feature we could think of that Ricoh hasn't carefully considered. Every design aspect, every feature, every control, button, line, curve... it's all 100% deliberate. Whether the screen is fixed or flippy, it will have been a conscious decision with a good reason behind it. Some of us may agree with the decision and some may not, but Ricoh will have its reasons. Nothing is by accident...
Yes, I agree. I had my tongue little a bit in my cheek While I was writing that. It is just because all of this debate on that screen. I see where people are coming from, just fine. What is little a bit getting me and I believe some others too, is that there is something really good coming up(atleast I want to believe so) and this is what people is looking at. Yes, it is a display too.
05-16-2020, 11:51 AM - 1 Like   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
What makes me shake my head are the K-3/5/7 owners that say lack of a movable screen is a deal breaker. Why is it a deal breaker now and when you purchased the K-3/5/7? Does the lack of the feature keep you from taking pictures with your current APS-C? What made you choose Pentax in the first place?
There were exactly 0 Pentax cameras with movable screens until the entry level K-S2* (2015), which released immediately before the K-3ii and is not comparable being very much entry level. So someone who bought the K-7/5/3 on release maybe went into Pentax because they offered enough of other things to offset the lack of screen (it did for me, for example, when I bought the K-7 despite not having a movable screen. It wasn't enough of a deal breaker at that moment but it would have been one today**), but that doesn't mean they didn't want a movable screen. The thing is that, in 2020, the K-new will be the only Pentax DSLR without a movable screen. And that's fine, but there are people who would like to see this feature added to the APS-C flagship line - although if it's enough of a deal breaker, the KP exists and is a fine camera in its own right.

* Okay, the 645Z came earlier but let's ignore that one for obvious reasons
**I bought it used and figured that I wouldn't really need it. Since I got the K-1 I use the flippy screen almost every session for a bunch of photos.

Last edited by Serkevan; 05-16-2020 at 12:01 PM.
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