[monochrome]

I think it will come in closer to what a 90D looks like and pricing. Which is still really really nice but not quite D500 or 7dII level.


I wonder if we'll see the return of mechanical IBIS on video? That seemed to draw some ire in past years with the K-3 and the Ricoh rep's mention of it coming to the KP and K-1 in the form of a firmware that never materialized (please correct if they finally did).

They could fix a lot of things in this camera and turn the tide for the brand.. at least those still in the market. I am interested in seeing optically how the updated 16-50 performs. Nikon and Canon opted not to update their models, neither did Sigma or Tamron.. as they all shifted their focus to Full Frame. Just Sony has one thats very recent but that's mirrorless.

I feel strangely (for me, historically) patient this time. I might keep KP and wait for the inevitable FF upgrade or I might replace the KP if K-new is closer to an Action-spec camera, I used to laugh when DPR said KP isn’t suitable for tracking running children, but that actually is a chore.

[clackers]

Pentaxians won't be able to help themselves after drooling for so long. They will take the bait!

I think it will be somewhere between the Nikon D7200 and D500. if it has the same Sony sensor as the Fujifilm X-T4 then it may be surprisingly good.

I think you're just speaking for yourself, mate!

Pentaxians did not all buy the K-1, 645Z, DA*560, DFA*50, DA*11-18 ... most are price sensitive!

We have many members here who shoot just fine with their K-10D or K-7 or whatever, it will be difficult for you to sell them a $2000 or even $1500 APS-C body.

[BROO]

Pentaxians did not all buy the K-1, 645Z, DA*560, DFA*50, DA*11-18 ... most are price sensitive!

Ricoh can't just rely on Pentaxians Clackers. That would be a bad business model. They will eventually die out!
They have to come up with products that new entry customers will consider and purchase.
A K-new plus D FA150-450 would be a good combination for a lot of birding/sports enthusiasts.

[clackers]

Pentaxians aren't unique in this respect, there's just fewer of us to make filling the niches viable for the company.

I think we are, TS. We value old Taks, for instance.

We are a different breed, and Ricoh will have to acknowledge that.

Remember the Nikon shooter Kenspo who became for a while an ambassador for the Scandinavian Ricoh dealer? He talked about how difficult it was for Pentaxians to want to purchase anything new, and yet it was his job to sit in forums and try to be an influencer.

We simply aren't as restless and dissatisfied as Canon and Nikon owners, we're smaller but more loyal. A side effect is, we appreciate the rich tradition of Pentax products, and don't see the need to buy what's advertised as the 'latest and greatest'.

And that's a real problem for a Ricoh product manager. Each time someone bought a second hand 60-250 and removed the baffle, that's a sale of the new DFA 70-210 f4 that never happens! The DFA*85 will have to compete with the existing FA77 Ltd, something the Sigma 85mm f1.4 completely failed to do.

[clackers]

Ricoh can't just rely on Pentaxians Clackers. That would be a bad business model. They will eventually die out!
They have to come up with products that new entry customers will consider and purchase.
A K-new plus D FA150-450 would be a good combination for a lot of birding/sports enthusiasts.

You will need to come up with a better model than the executives have in this dying industry.

Canon do not agree with you, Broo. There will be not be this wave of new customers to anyone, only less of them.

They think the market will never 'bounce back'. I'm not making this up.

It will decline even further to a few hardcore prosumers.

Canon, Sony, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji and Panasonic will have tremendous pain becoming niche camera companies.

But Leica, Hassy, Pentax, Phase One, etc are already there.

If you really want to 'grow the market', it will not be with a flagship APS-C, it would be some kind of doomed plan to convince phone owners to transfer cheaply to digital photography.

And low margin, high quantity camera products are no longer possible. Sony has abandoned that field (the 3000, 5000 series bodies) completely. You won't get your money back.

[BruceBanner]

Tbh this camera is pretty important, and may signal the end of my relationship with Pentax :S

[BROO]

I think you're just speaking for yourself, mate!

So if it is very good but expensive, your not buying?

[ffking]

It's better to have more camera than you need than not enough.

True in general, but ithere has to be a cost to benefit calculation for the extra performance for each user.

[thibs]

I don't think I have any great need or utility for a bigger viewfinder. But maybe I don't understand what the benefits are. The K-3 and K-3ii have a 0.95 magnification viewfinder, the K-new a 1.05. To me that means the magnification is 10% better. Is that going to make manual focusing easier? Framing and viewing your subject 10% better?


Better autofocus along the lines of other systems would (hopefully) make a significant impact on my keeper rate. I don't know that the viewfinder does. Personally, unless I'm missing something, the viewfinder is just a nice incremental improvement. While autofocus and the associated processing and frame rate improvements could make a clear impact on quality of my photography.

I would do that if I had a K-1 handy. I rented one a couple years ago and while I remember some differences in viewfinder I don't recall thinking anything in particular about the advantages of it. Perhaps I should have paid more attention to it.

For reference:
M-Series Film Bodies | The K-Mount Page

Same difference between MX/ME Super/ME-F and other M bodies. It seems low (just 0.10x difference) but those who know what the VF of an MX is, it is well... HUGE (yep, with capitals).
Really, the difference is enormous.
Kx/Kr/Km vs K3 should feel about the same difference.
My wife's K100D VF (0.85x) looks ridiculously small compared to my K5 VF (0.95x)

[BROO]

Pentaxians did not all buy the K-1, 645Z, DA*560, DFA*50, DA*11-18 ... most are price sensitive!

Well Clackers who did? New customers?

---------- Post added 05-23-20 at 02:15 AM ----------

If you really want to 'grow the market', it will not be with a flagship APS-C, it would be some kind of doomed plan to convince phone owners to transfer cheaply to digital photography.

That is why I think they need to make this camera better than a D7200 or a K-3 meh. They need to find a market segment that is impossible for smart phone owners. i.e sports and wildlife (birding). Plus they already have the lenses.

[Serkevan]

For reference:
M-Series Film Bodies | The K-Mount Page

Same difference between MX/ME Super/ME-F and other M bodies. It seems low (just 0.10x difference) but those who know what the VF of an MX is, it is well... HUGE (yep, with capitals).
Really, the difference is enormous.
Kx/Kr/Km vs K3 should feel about the same difference.
My wife's K100D VF (0.85x) looks ridiculously small compared to my K5 VF (0.95x)

The ME viewfinder is like going to a movie theatre. By the way, the Nikon and Canon cheaper APS-C bodies also have 95% coverage, 0.85x pentamirror finders. There's indeed a huge difference from 0.85x to 0.95x, and from 0.95x to 1.05x there is also a world of difference (K-7 to K-1 in my case).

[BROO]

Tbh this camera is pretty important, and may signal the end of my relationship with Pentax :S

Just wondering Bruce, what criteria do Pentax need to satisfy for you to continue with them?

[BruceBanner]

Just wondering what criteria do Pentax need to satisfy for you to continue with them?

Quite specific requirements tbh, professional work in a studio sense to working with kids and involves real time track with Face/Eye recognition, burst shooting and having the AF continue tracking throughout the burst. Imagine for example, FA77, f2.5 (shallow DoF)>Live View>Remote camera firing>Face Detection>Start the burst firing>the kid moves back and forth thus the frames in focus are only the ones that started at the beginning of the shot and not throughout. If AF.C and Face Detection worked in LV mode, and burst fired and had a deep enough buffer to cope as well, tracked throughout the 'giggle fits', that would be ideal (which I know other brands can manage). The Pentax workaround would be OVF only, which is risky if not behind the OVF, which might be hard to get the subject to perform when the child is looking towards the camera (and might not be the intent I want).

It's early days however, I am still undecided on that specific pursuit, I just really wanted to see Pentax step into 2020 tech, and not as I fear play catch up to other brands such as Nikon's D500 from 2016...

The way I see it, Pentax has IQ covered, it's files supreme, and lenses wise they are tight up at the top. However for some shooting needs that's not always enough, and practicalities come into play. Look at our beloved resident LeRolls, no longer shoots Pentax (because his 85mm died) and instead is with Fuji now. He enjoys all the focusing aids and perks that Fuji have and make his shooting experience so much more pleasant and fluid. Yes there could be a drop off in IQ, but perhaps its 5-10%? But the shooting experience is 50-80% improved. Of course he is not daft enough to sell the K-1 or his Ltd glass, but as photographers we must choose the right tool for the right job. Sometimes ease of capturing moments is more important than awesome RAW files and IQ.

So I'm judging Pentax pretty harshly here... no excuses, this next camera they release has to be more than 'so so' improvements, they really need to be showing they are moving forward at an acceptable pace. I'm not asking for much, fps, buffer and some decent LV shooting improvements, something that tells me they recognise the decade they are in, something that could hint that they are on the right path for the K-1 successor.

[BROO]

Quite specific requirements tbh, professional work in a studio sense to working with kids and involves real time track with Face/Eye recognition, burst shooting and having the AF continue tracking throughout the burst.

I am surprised you haven't jumped ship already to be honest. You need to have something in the studio that gets the job done. The brand doesn't matter. What is important is it's functionality.

When I worked as a photographer for CSIRO I used Nikon. When I went outback I took my Pentax.

I hope the K-new meets your needs.

[ffking]

Sometimes ease of capturing moments is more important than awesome RAW files and IQ.

I'm not defending Pentax's shortcomings, which we all know, and I'm not criticizing any specific brnad here, just making a general point, but the ease of taking pictures has perhaps become too dominant over the results in a lot of people's minds - 20 noisy off-colour fps which are all perfectly sharp doesn't beat 5 beautiful fps of which one is sharp except when you are the only person photographing something important.