[luftfluss]

That's about all I'm going to say on this, and indeed, in the thread...

Good idea. This thread has devolved. I'm out, too.

[Mike.P®]

My point is perhaps our users here have low expectations, if their new k-new camera costs $1500AUD, and its only on par with a 2016 Nikon D500... might be wise to cut the losses and choose another 2019/2020 brand crop sensor camera that out performs it (significantly so)

I would be interested to know which crop DSLR's that have been released within the last 12 months you think are significantly better than the D500 (especially regarding AF performance which is what this thread has more or less concentated on). I sold my K-3II & swapped over to a D500 about 18 months ago and IMO the autofocus is still better than anything out there at the moment bar maybe the newest of the Sony mirrorless bodies (but then we are talking crop DSLR's here as you are comparing to the Pentax K-new) and if Pentax can get anywhere near it then IMO then people wanting faster AF will be more than happy.

I also have to add (before I get shot down for being a Nikon user posting in a Pentax forum) that although the K-new is still a non starter for me due to long lens choice, I still use my K-1 and 15-30/24-70/70-200/150-450mm 99% of the time and the Nikon really only comes out at airshows and for BIF.

[bladerunner6]

Can I ask what those obvious reasons are? When I first started out with photography, I came across the K-50 when looking for a camera. For the same price as the Canikon entry level offerings, I got much more for my money - a much more capable camera that I am still happy enough using six years later...

Exactly the same case for me.

Unless someone has an awful lot of money to buy very expensive lenses I really don’t see the need to recommend Canikon.

People do make the valid claim that Canikon can be better for action but you definitely need a level of camera and lens that the typical beginner probably won’t buy.

So unless action/sports is definitely going to be your gig Pentax is at least as valid a choice and for some things like macro, still life, landscape, astrophotography and architecture it can be a better choice.

Not all of us, myself included are obsessed with photographing swerving bicycles.

[bladerunner6]

I would be interested to know which crop DSLR's that have been released within the last 12 months you think are significantly better than the D500 (especially regarding AF performance which is what this thread has more or less concentated on). I sold my K-3II & swapped over to a D500 about 18 months ago and IMO the autofocus is still better than anything out there at the moment bar maybe the newest of the Sony mirrorless bodies (but then we are talking crop DSLR's here as you are comparing to the Pentax K-new) and if Pentax can get anywhere near it then IMO then people wanting faster AF will be more than happy.

I also have to add (before I get shot down for being a Nikon user posting in a Pentax forum) that although the K-new is still a non starter for me due to long lens choice, I still use my K-1 and 15-30/24-70/70-200/150-450mm 99% of the time and the Nikon really only comes out at airshows.

What sort of long lens do you use with the Nikon, please?

Thanks.

[Mike.P®]

What sort of long lens do you use with the Nikon, please?

Thanks.

I was using the Sigma 150-600mm Sport, I recently sold that as I am about to buy the 200-500mm f/5.6 but my main lens is the Sigma 500mm f/4 sport with 1.4x and 2x converters.

[Serkevan]

The vast majority of folks still shoot with either Nikon or Canon. There's a huge choice of AF lenses, flashes and other accessories, with something for every application and budget. If you book a workshop or attend a local evening class, chances are the tutor - and most of the attendees - are shooting one of those two brands, and fully able to cover both. There's no brand snobbery, smirking and ribbing, no chance of having someone look down their nose at your choice, if you shoot with Nikon or Canon. Both brands do all of the fundamental things well.

There's quite some responsibility in recommending a camera system to someone, as it can be pretty expensive. Recommending Nikon or Canon is low-risk. The beginner is highly unlikely to be disappointed with their purchase. If they are, they'd probably be disappointed with any ILC, and might be better off sticking with their phone. There are good reasons why I prefer to shoot with Pentax, but they're unique to me and probably don't matter to most beginners. By the time they do, those folks should be perfectly capable of making their own decisions, and switching to Pentax if and when they feel it's suitable. If they do, I'd rather that decision lies with them rather than me.

There used to be a saying in business, way back when, "Nobody got fired for buying IBM". This is similar. You'll never go far wrong in buying Nikon or Canon. Pentax might be better for some, but I think folks need some experience to understand if it's the right system for them

From the perspective of someone who has been into photography for less than two years: for a beginner, the brand doesn't matter too much. If someone goes into photography knowing what they want to do it's one thing but then they will probably be already equipped to do the research themselves - and if they don't (like myself) then the initial investment for a second-hand system with some cheap lenses won't be a lot of money and it won't be a huge hassle to change later. I turned out to like landscapes and city/travel photography which don't require a gajillion AF points, while ergonomics are a huge point for me and Pentaxes are the best there bar none (for my hands at least). The loads of second hand vintage lenses at very reasonable prices to try out also played a part, since I like tinkering with stuff .

Honestly, for most "beginner" budgets a Pentax is IMO one of -if not the- best bangs for buck. If I hadn't moved to FF* I'd have bought the 55-300 in addition to the Tamron 17-50/2.8, at some point I'd have added a DA 15 and I'd have been a super happy camper. I would probably have been happy with a Canon or a Nikon in the same price range, but honestly I regret nothing.


*For which starting out with a K-7 was a major point - if I had a K-5 I wouldn't have been nearly as disappointed with the noise and would have spent the money on lenses

[bladerunner6]

I was using the Sigma 150-600mm Sport, I recently sold that as I am about to buy the 200-500mm f/5.6 but my main lens is the Sigma 500mm f/4 sport with 1.4x and 2x converters.

If Pentax rebadged the Tamron 150-600 that would probably not be enough for you, if I am reading you correctly?

Thanks.

[ThorSanchez]

So I'm really curious, what are these features that make Canons and Nikon better for beginners, beside's their place in pop culture?

There is some benefit to having a product that's available in stores. That you can get fixed without sending to Precision. That other folks near you have experience with. For me, I'm an engineer who's confident and capable around technology, I was just fine ordering an $800 Pentax for my first ILC without ever having held or seen one in person. For others that's a leap too far. Where I live an hour or so from DC there's one camera shop that stocks some Pentax, and that's almost two hours away so it might as well not even be there. 2nd closest is 5+ hours away in NYC.

I recommended Pentax to my sister, and she bought a K-50 and likes it. Every time I see her I cross my fingers that the aperture block is still working. But I'd be a little iffy recommending something to a beginner where the purchasing and support will all be remote and I'll be the only person they know with that brand's products. I'd have to have a conversation on how comfortable they are with that, and whether I'll become their de facto tech support.

[reh321]

I know this is off topic, but of course IBM is out of the PC biz because they didn't want to deal with the low margins. However, IBM IP is still in every personal computer (they own a ton of IP patents and make big bucks from it), IBM still makes and services mainframes and offers a lot of high-level technology solutions. They are profitable and selling off their PC & portable units to Lenovo wound up being a smart move.

Personal computers were never a big part of IBM's business.

When I entered the computing field, IBM was split between "big iron" and "little iron" supporters. "Little iron" {mini-computers the size of a filing cabinet} seemed to lose out over time. After they and Microsoft went their separate ways, they did announce that OS/2 was going to be the basis of all future systems, but I never saw any evidence of that. In 1994, a year before Microsoft entered real multi-tasking with their Win95 system, I tried to buy an OS/2 system for our home, but I couldn't find anyone at IBM willing to sell one to me. At the time, I had a friend in industry whose company developed software for several operating systems, but their developers all used OS/2 systems, so I knew it was in use, but the company was not willing to sell one to me. They were at least a year ahead of Microsoft in software, but way behind them in marketing. So, IBM's small computers are more complicated than represented here.

[AggieDad]

I guess I am excluded then.

My KP provides all I want, for both action and landscape-type scenes.
At my current age of 72, I have no expectations of purchasing another camera.

Well, at 77 I am looking forward to at least considering the new camera. There's still a little bit of "Oooh! Shiny!" left in me, I suppose.

On the other hand, life-time warranties aren't such a big deal any more.

[Dartmoor Dave]

No, here silly billy, in this forum from our users People hoping it matches D500 etc. I'm saying that this is quite low expectations and I hope Pentax smash that out of the water. But if our demograph would be content with the next flagship having AF on par with a D500... that's not great imo.

And as for Pentax not being competitive, that's bs. They sell cameras and lenses, so does everyone else. That's competition! The fact they may not have gone to mirrorless does not mean anything, it could mean they'd love to but have short pockets and are making a gamble to stay with dslr. You interpret that as not trying to compete, others can see it as struggling to stay in the market, always playing catch up. Only time will tell and the success of their cameras/brand/lenses etc and whatever side of tech they decide to stay with. But make no mistake, they are competing. It's business.

My point is perhaps our users here have low expectations, if their new k-new camera costs $1500AUD, and its only on par with a 2016 Nikon D500... might be wise to cut the losses and choose another 2019/2020 brand crop sensor camera that out performs it (significantly so)

For me I can only stay loyal for so long before logic kicks in.

But I live in hope, I really hope it blows a lot of the competition out of the water and ends up being a really competitive choice. I hope to show my recently acquired Nikon D500 bird shooter friend that Pentax can really keep up with the competition in this genre.

I actually think Pentax is marketing itself towards Landscape and Wildlife, K-1 was Landscape, this will be Wildlife (all about the AF baby!)

Eddy, you know I admire your work, but can we just be clear about something:

Pentax isn't trying to compete with Canon, Nikon or Sony. It doesn't need to compete with them, and it would be commercial suicide for it to try to. All Pentax needs to do is sell enough cameras, mostly in Japan, to keep Ricoh happy.

When people talk about the digital camera market in general, they almost never lump Pentax in with SoCaNikon. If the Pentax name comes up, it's usually in the same context as Leica and Hasselblad -- a niche product for a niche market. Cameras for people who want to use legacy lenses on the brand of bodies and the native mount that they were designed for. And for people who want modern lenses that are a bit different from the norm, designed to have a uniquely Pentaxian character in the same way that Leica lenses are made to have that special Leica character.

Long term survival for Pentax depends on carving out its own niche in the market, and creating products for the sort of photographers who enjoy inhabiting that niche. If you think the grass on the other side of the fence will be more nutritious for you, that's great. But don't tell me that I've got low expectations because I happen to like the taste of the grass on this side.

[bladerunner6]

There is some benefit to having a product that's available in stores. That you can get fixed without sending to Precision. That other folks near you have experience with. For me, I'm an engineer who's confident and capable around technology, I was just fine ordering an $800 Pentax for my first ILC without ever having held or seen one in person. For others that's a leap too far. Where I live an hour or so from DC there's one camera shop that stocks some Pentax, and that's almost two hours away so it might as well not even be there. 2nd closest is 5+ hours away in NYC.

I recommended Pentax to my sister, and she bought a K-50 and likes it. Every time I see her I cross my fingers that the aperture block is still working. But I'd be a little iffy recommending something to a beginner where the purchasing eand support will all be remote and I'll be the only person they know with that brand's products. I'd have to have a conversation on how comfortable they are with that, and whether I'll become their de facto tech support.

I will admit that if you have a local camera store that can be of benefit. But those are getting scarcer and between tax increases on imported goods and Covid 19 they are likely to get even more uncommon.

Buying from a Big Box retailer really only offers the after purchase support of easy returns. Repair for all these cameras are done by repair centers that you send them out to.

As for Precision they repaired my K-70, cleaned it and updated the firmware all in one day and then sent it out the next. Service does not get any better than that.

As for tech support, I know no other Pentax users although there are some in the area. I get all my tech support from the manual, the third party user guides and here at Pentaxforums.

[Kunzite]

The new AF sensor will also be used in the next FF body and the next 645 body (if there is one). Ricoh could conceivably order (or contract for term-delivery of) a multi-year batch of that component to lower unit costs.

I hope they will enlarge the coverage (assuming OoKU's right about "more than 99" AF points) a bit, so we won't have many AF points clustered in the center.
They should be able to do that through optics.

[Mike.P®]

If Pentax rebadged the Tamron 150-600 that would probably not be enough for you, if I am reading you correctly?

Thanks.

I have never used the Tamron but if Pentax rebadged it I would probably buy one anyway just to try on my K-1. The K-new AF/tracking speed is also going to depend on the lenses we have available so I will be interested to see how it pairs up with the 150-450mm, especially with the 1.4x.

as far as I am concerned Pentax autofocus is already useable for almost anything but the present bodies are seriously lacking in decent tracking performance which is what sports/sirshow,wildlife shooters are mostly looking for, put something that resembles the D500 system in a slightly beefed up K-3II and IMO Pentax would keep the last of those shooters thinking of moving on.

However (and I hate to say this) I still feel it's too late to think 99% of Canikon/Sony shooters would ever look at Pentax as a viable alternative to their present systems, they are too heavily into the tech side of cameras and Pentax just isn't interesting enough for them.

[StiffLegged]

My point is perhaps our users here have low expectations, if their new k-new camera costs $1500AUD, and its only on par with a 2016 Nikon D500... might be wise to cut the losses and choose another 2019/2020 brand crop sensor camera that out performs it (significantly so)For me I can only stay loyal for so long before logic kicks in.

Just where in Australia are you going to buy a new D500 for that money? Body only the online prices are rather north of $2300 AUS. The last Pentax APS-C flagship was launched at $1100 US, the D500 launched around $2000 US – almost twice the price. Pricing has dropped the D500 to around $1500 US now, but do you know the price of the K-new at launch? I sure don't.


I don't understand this thread at all. Shall we next moan and groan about how the K-new doesn't have the frame rate of Canon's 1DX MkIII? The connectivity of the A9 MkII? The lack of information on frame rates or connectivity shouldn't hinder y'all, eh? Take it away...