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05-28-2020, 07:08 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
No such point system here
Yes, but they do have two or three 15% off sales each year, if you're patient.

05-28-2020, 07:40 PM   #17
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Reading the overview of this lens has me drooling in all the right ways. If I didn't want the K-new so badly, this might be at the top of the list.
05-28-2020, 09:32 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Reading the overview of this lens has me drooling in all the right ways. If I didn't want the K-new so badly, this might be at the top of the list.
Tough choice, isn’t it?
  • DFA85?
  • K-new?
  • DFA85?
  • K-new?
HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F1.4 ED SDM AW - 2020
HD PENTAX-D FA 21mm 1:2.4 Limited ED DC WR - 2021
K-l new - 2022

Last edited by monochrome; 05-28-2020 at 09:40 PM.
05-28-2020, 09:48 PM - 5 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Tough choice, isn’t it?
  • DFA85?
  • K-new?
  • DFA85?
  • K-new?
HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F1.4 ED SDM AW - 2020
HD PENTAX-D FA 21mm 1:2.4 Limited ED DC WR - 2021
K-l new - 2022
I don't plan that far ahead.

The hip pocket pain of the DFA* 85 will be long forgotten by the time the DFA 21 Limited is released

05-28-2020, 10:47 PM - 3 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
Got to love DPR....
Fact-checking doesn’t seem to be a strong point there.
05-28-2020, 10:56 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Yes, but they do have two or three 15% off sales each year, if you're patient.
...and occasionally 20%, though usually with a maximum dollar figure. I bought my last three Pentax lenses that way (D FA28-105, D FA*50 and D*FA70-210). The new 85 looks good, but I think I’ll hold my next investment for the D FA21, which means my FA20/2.8 will be on the market shortly. To justify (even to myself, which isn’t normally that difficult for a life-long rationaliser) buying the 85 would mean selling my FA77, and that’s something I’d be extremely loathe to do.

If I’d never bought the 77, that might have been another matter, but it is one of three, after all.
05-28-2020, 11:26 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I'm going with $2599AUD
i think it 'll break the 3,000 aud........ 645 territory pricing.. our dollar is just c^^&*^ now

05-28-2020, 11:37 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Yes, but they do have two or three 15% off sales each year, if you're patient.
Wouldn't those stores have sales also? Can you not perhaps use your points in a sale?

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Fact-checking doesn’t seem to be a strong point there.
Maybe the 2 that had it are the reviewers?

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
...and occasionally 20%, though usually with a maximum dollar figure. I bought my last three Pentax lenses that way (D FA28-105, D FA*50 and D*FA70-210). The new 85 looks good, but I think I’ll hold my next investment for the D FA21, which means my FA20/2.8 will be on the market shortly. To justify (even to myself, which isn’t normally that difficult for a life-long rationaliser) buying the 85 would mean selling my FA77, and that’s something I’d be extremely loathe to do.

If I’d never bought the 77, that might have been another matter, but it is one of three, after all.
I won't ever own that 85/1.4. Too expensive and like you I'm quite content with the FA77. DFA21 is what I am saving for too.
05-29-2020, 12:44 AM - 3 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by dbs Quote
i think it 'll break the 3,000 aud........ 645 territory pricing.. our dollar is just c^^&*^ now
Yeah, it could, which is worrying.

I'm a little worried for Pentax in some ways. Whilst we're happy progress and production is happening I am a little concerned over their strategy direction.

Let's all be honest about Pentax for a minute. Pentax is not marketed for Professionals, yet look at some of these recent price tags. Before you all go crazy and shout at me, hear me out. If I grab 100 professional event shooters (weddings etc), I guarantee Pentax will be right at the bottom in terms of amount of users. A large proportion of those shooters will be Canikonyji. The fact that Canon and Nikon offer professional membership/service in case you are needing equipment in a hurry due to failure shows how much these brands can support their customer base. If my K-1 dies the day before an event I can't even go into a store nearby for a replacement (let alone be part of a service that will replace my camera then and there with another model to use whilst mine is being repaired etc).
Pentax don't market towards that arena, you won't see any of their marketing content geared towards wedding shooters.
They don' do sport or action, which again is dominated by Canikony. They are not strong in photo journalism either (when's the last time you saw a paparazzi with a Pentax?).

So Pentax don't compete or try to in three major professional revenues;

- Events/Weddings
- Sport/Action
- Photojournalism

Now, I'm not finished yet, so hold your hatred and breath just for a second...

Where the K-1 has been marketed often is the landscape realm, no doubt about it, when the K-1 was released in 2016 they produced a really impressive landscape FF camera. You will see landscape images mostly associated with the Pentax brand in what little marketing material they produce.

Wildlife, yeah ok, a little, but many wildlife togs have left Pentax and went Canikony for AF/Buffer issues. The K-new is exciting because it does suggest an improvement in those areas and a comeback to the wildlife genre.

At the end of the day I see the Pentax brand as being heavily geared towards landscapers, which is fair enough. Sadly however, they are little used in the landscape realm. You won't find many (to any!) users shooting a K-1 in the 'Easy Way Photograhy group or the Nightscape Photographers Australia group. It's quite saddening, even when we get a newbie asking for suggestions, K-1 is never mentioned. When I bring it up many users are surprised by the spec sheet and it's the first time they have even heard of the camera...
For some that are aware of the K-1, the points they bring up is lack of Astro suitable lenses. Now I'm not an expert in this genre, but when chatting with these chaps they seem to understand the Pentax landscape lenses on offer (15-30, Samyang options etc) but are still adamant that certain key focal lengths are omitted which prompted their own decisions to not buy into Pentax. They brought up the point that really after the K-1 they needed to concentrate all their efforts on UWA FF lenses and push for dominance in the landscape/astro genre, but they didn't. Again, not saying this is my opinion, just those I have heard from others who are really into this genre.
Always when I hear of a Canikony coming across to the Pentax platform with great enthusiasm, it's for landscape use (some are still pleased so it seems). Always those that leave Pentax and go to Canikony is typically due to AF/fps/buffer issues and are professionals in studio, weddings, photojournalism etc. Eventually they have enough... the market moves forward and more choices are available to them.

So here we have Pentax, still alive and kicking, but a small market share and an even smaller professional market share (users whom use Pentax and generate a solid living from JUST Pentax products). I'm not saying it isn't done, always there are exceptions. Please don't spam me with Pentax studio, sport, weddings or whatever sample shots, I get it..., I'm just saying how things are in the industry in general.

So if Pentax are not appealing heavily to professionals, then they must be appealing to enthusiasts.

So, here's the point. What enthusiast is gonna pay **2000quid for a portrait lens? How well did the DFA 50/1.4 sell? Who bought that lens? Two pretty expensive primes there... Are only rich loyal Pentaxians their market interest now? Maybe it is! Maybe it will work, maybe they become the Leica of Japan... I just dunno.
A lot of chitchat about this lens currently but not many people saying they will jump on it. When reading comments from other non Pentaxians they droll over the lens but then sigh what would be connected to the other end of it lol.

I'm not getting into the FF vs Mirrorless thing, it just feels about their pace in moving alongside other brands. Now if this 85/1.4 was released with a new FF (K-2) that had made significant improvements, that might actually have been really compelling and entice some ex Pentaxians to come back. Honestly... I just dunno whose gonna buy this lens, with that price tag, not because its not a justified price tag, the lens will be probably be the best 85/1.4 in the market period, but whose buying it?

Please note this is not a Pentax is doomed piece, just curious to hear your thoughts.
05-29-2020, 01:16 AM - 1 Like   #25
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It will boost second hand market for FA* 85 and Sigma 85 EX !
05-29-2020, 01:25 AM - 10 Likes   #26
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Pentax doesn't want to be big. Pentax wants to be profitable.

Joining the "big players" in a race to the bottom would be a disaster. They are a niche player, playing to discerning enthusiasts. Low volume, high margin - like Leica. And don't think for a minute that only professionals buy Leica, or Zeiss Otus lenses.

If it isn't your niche, look elsewhere. The company will survive the disappointment.
05-29-2020, 02:18 AM - 1 Like   #27
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I see the new line of lenses as three point strategy:
1. offer product that Pentaxians and potential customers can aspire to
2. move as far as possible from what today's and future mobile phone photography can offer. Because it will grab larger and larger groups of users
3. offer quality that can satisfy the MF users because there is no R&D in the MF line

I should also add, that a the products practically copy results of the massive user survey that Ricoh/Pentax did a couple of years ago. So they are fulfilling our wishes - which other company can say this?!
05-29-2020, 02:43 AM - 2 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Pentax doesn't want to be big. Pentax wants to be profitable.

Joining the "big players" in a race to the bottom would be a disaster. They are a niche player, playing to discerning enthusiasts. Low volume, high margin - like Leica. And don't think for a minute that only professionals buy Leica, or Zeiss Otus lenses.

If it isn't your niche, look elsewhere. The company will survive the disappointment.

Leica is primarily bought by rich dentists...
05-29-2020, 02:44 AM - 3 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Pentax doesn't want to be big. Pentax wants to be profitable.

Joining the "big players" in a race to the bottom would be a disaster. They are a niche player, playing to discerning enthusiasts. Low volume, high margin - like Leica. And don't think for a minute that only professionals buy Leica, or Zeiss Otus lenses.

If it isn't your niche, look elsewhere. The company will survive the disappointment.
I actually think Ricoh might be on to something with their stewardship of Pentax. In the end it's profits that will keep Pentax alive, not selling the most cameras and lenses. If they can sell fewer units and make more profit than by selling tons of items for less profit then they will stay in business. In a shrinking market that seems like a sensible approach.
05-29-2020, 02:57 AM - 2 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Leica is primarily bought by rich dentists...
Exactly. Hasselblad cameras and lenses are primarily bought by amateurs too, not by professionals or rental companies. There was an interview of the CEO of Hasselblad a couple of years ago, during which he stated they were surprised by the proportion of amateurs among their clients.

There are very few wealthy professional photographers who can afford to buy or rent pieces of equipment, the unit price of which is equal to or more than €/$2,000. Most professional photographers are struggling and it won't get any better.

Similarly, Porches and Ferraris are mostly bought by wealthy individuals, not professional pilots.

Ricoh are moving the Pentax brand upmarket. It might be sad for some Pentaxians who will feel left aside but, if this is the price to pay (no pun intended) for the Pentax brand to survive, so be it.
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