[carlb]

Bruce, the thing is, the low end market is pretty much dead in the water. A couple of more broadsides from the good ship Smartphone and the bottom of the market is going to sink deeper than the Bismarck. There is no point in going after a market that effectively no longer exists. The midrange market is being bought and paid for by Sony, though I do wonder how long they are going to be willing to throw money at the wall when it stops sticking, Nikon and Canon are now in a perpetual game of playing catch up.
The midrange is almost as dependant on volume sales as the low end market, and let's face it, Pentax doesn't have, and never will have, the volume required to be profitable in that market.

That leave the high end market. It's a small volume niche market suited to a small volume company. It's an expensive market to get into, and the quality absolutely has to be there. This is where Pentax is going. The D FA* 50/1.4 is pretty close to flawless, the D FA* 85/1.4 appears to be close to perfection.

In a way, Ricoh is going right back to the roots of the Pentax way. Pentax glass has always been very good, at one time it was well nigh impossible to buy a better lens than what Pentax was producing.
We are seeing a return to that Golden Age when Pentax was the standard that everyone chased.
They aren't going for volume, they aren't going for the Pro, they are going for the discerning amateur. They are going for the customer who wants the very best and who is willing to pay a premium for it.

They are going after the same customer that kept Leica in business for so many decades when they were completely out of step making rangefinders in an SLR world.
I believe, in a few years, that we are going to see three lens lines from Pentax, there will always be the cheap and cheerful zooms, they aren't going anywhere, and I anticipate they are going to be co-brands and rebrands, such as we are seeing with the new 70-210.

There will be the Limiteds, quirky little lenses with odd maximum apertures and very unique and pleasing imaging character. The just teased 21mm lens being the first of a new generation of Limited lenses for the digital age. Expect the 31, 43 and 77 to be revisited, with redesigns keeping what we love about those lenses intact while minimizing the weaknesses that are inherent to their pre digital designs.

And finally, there will be the D FA* lenses. These will be the optical beasts. No compromises. Lenses that are what they have to be to be as close to perfect as a lens can be. Big, heavy, expensive and exquisite. Once in a lifetime lenses that can and will be appreciated by advanced photographic aficionados.

Ricoh knows that they are in a market unto themselves. I'm quite certain that they have people on staff who can read English and can translate the idiocy that is DPReview into something meaningful.
Well, maybe not, that is a pretty tall order, but they have to know that they aren't going to get any respect from the mass market morons that post on websites such as that.

They are going to market to people that actually have lives, that aren't trolls living in their parent's basement who sneak upstairs and fire up mommies computer to throw shade at whomever they have decided the bandwagon is telling them to.

They are, as Pentax has always done, marketing to real photographers who appreciate the benefits of the very best lenses money can buy.

Aaaarrrggghhh..........why can I only like this post once!!!!!!!! We need a multiple likes button Adam.

[noelpolar]

I'm just curious as to how many of us will own a DFA 85...

My thoughts (which are normally pretty simple)..... is that this lens is just a system "building block" that is needed if one takes a 10 year'ish future view for the brand..... especially if one thinks more premium niche brand positioning.... maybe pentax eventually owning the DSLR space like Leica owns the rangefinder space.

I will admit, I somewhat struggle at some of the pricing of the more recently released stuff (DFA 150-450 etc)..... but, in the end did buy it where my interest/needs meet.... so maybe Pentax have their pricing set about right for people like me (I have money to some degree.... but only because I'm somewhat thrifty in a lot of ways... ie a bit of a tight arse).

Anyway, I really can imagine it being a difficult position to be in to be Pentax based as one transitions to being a proffesional photographer..... especially if ones hobby or interest has taken them down the road where the equipment you love begins to be wanting for the new place you find yourself in. I would not hesitate to transition to other tools as funds permitted if this was the case.... and I think you are probally right regarding the Knew being one of the last hopes in this case for you.

Anyway, pentax managed to get me past the $1,000 mark for a prime (FA31) and the $2,000 mark for a zoom (150-450).... so who knows where they will take me next.... however.... they can't sell me an 85/1.4 pretty well much at any price because I just don't have any use for one... but that is to be expected for a lot of us as it is a bit of a niche lens.

Anyway, I enjoy your contributions and appreciate your position.

[edri]

..........

In a way, Ricoh is going right back to the roots of the Pentax way. Pentax glass has always been very good, at one time it was well nigh impossible to buy a better lens than what Pentax was producing.
We are seeing a return to that Golden Age when Pentax was the standard that everyone chased.
They aren't going for volume, they aren't going for the Pro, they are going for the discerning amateur. They are going for the customer who wants the very best and who is willing to pay a premium for it.

Your analysis is very relevant. Indeed, Pentax is for discerning enthusiasts who want high-quality traditional photo equipment right now. Although the lenses are made to a high professional level, we cannot say that they are intended for the pro market, because there are very, very few professional photographers who use Pentax equipment in general. However, the general trend is to switch to ML systems, for those who have remained on the ILC photo market, so the Pentax niche is becoming even narrower.

[repaap]

Your analysis is very relevant. Indeed, Pentax is for discerning enthusiasts who want high-quality traditional photo equipment right now. Although the lenses are made to a high professional level, we cannot say that they are intended for the pro market, because there are very, very few professional photographers who use Pentax equipment in general. However, the general trend is to switch to ML systems, for those who have remained on the ILC photo market, so the Pentax niche is becoming even narrower.

Actually that is not true either. Giving professional grade gear will open that door, regardless of what gear one is now using. This might not be a loads of professionals coming, but it does still open that possibility. And that is what is important. And also it is important for Pentax fans. Some might even return for these lenses, and if Ricoh throws a nice updated camera models on top. And that is about that.

[BruceBanner]

My cousin used to make $5000 in a single wedding and that was 1980 money. I guess it depends on what type of wedding photographer you are.

Haha, yeah... I am most definitely not that kinda wedding photographer. I do ok work, but I'm in my second year of paid work, 4 weddings (would have done 6 by now if not for stupid Covid), but I am pricing myself based on experience of the event itself and in line with my equipment and capability.

This guy I am not ; London Wedding Photographer | Brett Harkness

If you're thinking of getting the 85 to use as you say in a professional capacity (wedding photographer) , can't you just write it off as a business expense tax wise? Even more of a reason to buy in I would have thought

Not that successful yet, still early days for me. I haven't even actually decided on weddings as my genre I should pursue, just doing the odd one that comes up (without direct advertising). In fact, I think the AIPP considers a professional photographer to being someone that derives a sole income over $60k from photography, so that's me out

1980 was before the mobile phone era, not to mention digital photography, when your uncle might have had an SLR, but most other people felt constrained about taking a camera into a wedding (and most weddings were still in churches), except perhaps for the bride and groom emerging from the venue.

Now that we seem to have stop piling onto Eddy, every such question that arises about the pricing of new Pentax lenses is, I think, really about Ricoh’s overall marketing strategy, and particularly about who and where their target buyers are for the Star lenses. You could include the D FA150-450 in that, too, but only because it’s a specialised lens with a high price.

If we really knew the answer to that, we’d be under an NDA, so we’re just guessing. Saying that Pentax is being moved into the premium segment is fairly obvious, but not helpful in answering the “who and where” question.

Then again, even twelve months ago I wouldn’t have thought myself to be a buyer for the D FA*50, but it turns out I was, and it turns out that Ricoh’s marketing people were probably smarter than many of us gave them credit for. I watch the Australian dealer’s website, which shows the changing number of those lenses in stock and sold after each new batch arrives, and that confirms it.

I am Pentax Forum's punching bag, and I'm ok with that

In the short time I have been with Pentax (5yrs or so), I have definitely felt a shift from being budget orientated to now shifting towards this kinda top tier uber premium thing. And that's all I am really enquiring about, are Pentax now trying to set themselves up as the Rolls Royce of dslrs/lenses? Hard to say that is true with their camera bodies but when it comes to glass I can believe that! But that's part of my point and the points that all the other brands have, nice glass, but I wouldn't shoot with Pentax.
Makes me wonder if Pentax should just stop body development and focus on their awesome glass and getting it out on various other mounts than just K? Is this suicide or a good short term solution to getting back on track?

And were you are located - lenses don't change price but weddings do. AFAIK anything over 2000€ in Germany is in the realm of "very expensive" for a wedding photographer. Ditto for Spain, it's mostly under 1000€ over there, but then again a $20000 wedding would be considered preposterous .

Yeah look, it varies. I knew a wedding photographer that charged $10kAUD per wedding, I have friends around $3.5kAUD, like with all things this profession varies immensely. For the $10k/wedding tog the 85 wouldn't bother then in the slightest, for some others its like working 2 weddings to afford the lens (and they might only do 12 weddings a year...
What I feel a lot of people don't fully realise with wedding (or professionals) in general, is that when doing paid work it also often means buying double of everything, and often more gear than the enthusiast. The reason I don't have an FA31 yet is because I also have to have;

- x2 camera bodies
- x2 lenses (or at least a decent overlap of many focal lengths should a lens die on the day/accidental break)
- x2 triggers
- x2 AD200 pros
- x2 V1's
- x2 softboxes
- x3 7ft umbrellas
- tripods x2
- lightstands x3
etc.

It all adds up and spreads revenue thinly.

UWA starts at 23mm downwards.
The Crop Factor Unmasked - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com



It's just the second most expensive 85/1.4 modern brand lens.

It can be used on every Pentax APS-C camera as well as on the K-1 and the 2018 K-1 II.

Your list is kind of incomplete and lacks all zooms, some primes and several bodies. I do count thre times more lenses than you in the last decade:
2009 - D FA 100 WR
2013 - DA 560
2015 - D FA 24-70
2015 - D FA 150-450
2016 - K-1
2016 - D FA 15-30
2016 - D FA 28-105
2016 - D FA* 70-200
2017 - KP
2018 - K-1 II
2018 - D FA* 50
2019 - FA 35
2020 - D FA 70-210
2020 - D FA* 85
2021 - D FA 21
2021 - APS-C Flagship
2022 - D FA 24
2023 - K-2 ?

Yeah, I skipped alot and just highlighted the main stuff, but I would not at all relate the K-new/crop with the DFA 85, like.. at all. You would be throwing thousands of dollars away on optical brilliance that the crop sensor doesn't even reach/utilise. It echo's back to my point, if the DFA 85 was on the back (or front) of a new K-2, that makes more sense and might actually get some new Pentaxians or get some old supporters back. I don't think many nonPentaxians right now would actually argue that this new DFA 85 is probably the very best 85 on the market, period. What turns them off is having to use a K-1 with it. They just need to pick up the pace, strike while the iron is hot, K-2, 2021 along side the K-new

Bruce, the thing is, the low end market is pretty much dead in the water. A couple of more broadsides from the good ship Smartphone and the bottom of the market is going to sink deeper than the Bismarck. There is no point in going after a market that effectively no longer exists. The midrange market is being bought and paid for by Sony, though I do wonder how long they are going to be willing to throw money at the wall when it stops sticking, Nikon and Canon are now in a perpetual game of playing catch up.
The midrange is almost as dependant on volume sales as the low end market, and let's face it, Pentax doesn't have, and never will have, the volume required to be profitable in that market.

That leave the high end market. It's a small volume niche market suited to a small volume company. It's an expensive market to get into, and the quality absolutely has to be there. This is where Pentax is going. The D FA* 50/1.4 is pretty close to flawless, the D FA* 85/1.4 appears to be close to perfection.

In a way, Ricoh is going right back to the roots of the Pentax way. Pentax glass has always been very good, at one time it was well nigh impossible to buy a better lens than what Pentax was producing.
We are seeing a return to that Golden Age when Pentax was the standard that everyone chased.
They aren't going for volume, they aren't going for the Pro, they are going for the discerning amateur. They are going for the customer who wants the very best and who is willing to pay a premium for it.

They are going after the same customer that kept Leica in business for so many decades when they were completely out of step making rangefinders in an SLR world.
I believe, in a few years, that we are going to see three lens lines from Pentax, there will always be the cheap and cheerful zooms, they aren't going anywhere, and I anticipate they are going to be co-brands and rebrands, such as we are seeing with the new 70-210.

There will be the Limiteds, quirky little lenses with odd maximum apertures and very unique and pleasing imaging character. The just teased 21mm lens being the first of a new generation of Limited lenses for the digital age. Expect the 31, 43 and 77 to be revisited, with redesigns keeping what we love about those lenses intact while minimizing the weaknesses that are inherent to their pre digital designs.

And finally, there will be the D FA* lenses. These will be the optical beasts. No compromises. Lenses that are what they have to be to be as close to perfect as a lens can be. Big, heavy, expensive and exquisite. Once in a lifetime lenses that can and will be appreciated by advanced photographic aficionados.

Ricoh knows that they are in a market unto themselves. I'm quite certain that they have people on staff who can read English and can translate the idiocy that is DPReview into something meaningful.
Well, maybe not, that is a pretty tall order, but they have to know that they aren't going to get any respect from the mass market morons that post on websites such as that.

They are going to market to people that actually have lives, that aren't trolls living in their parent's basement who sneak upstairs and fire up mommies computer to throw shade at whomever they have decided the bandwagon is telling them to.

They are, as Pentax has always done, marketing to real photographers who appreciate the benefits of the very best lenses money can buy.

Yes! I think this is what they are doing, my only hope is such clientele still exists. I've always been impressed with Pentax lenses, in some ways I wonder why they are not just making these lenses for all brand bodies and just be a glass maker? Would that be better for them or company suicide?

My thoughts (which are normally pretty simple)..... is that this lens is just a system "building block" that is needed if one takes a 10 year'ish future view for the brand..... especially if one thinks more premium niche brand positioning.... maybe pentax eventually owning the DSLR space like Leica owns the rangefinder space.

I will admit, I somewhat struggle at some of the pricing of the more recently released stuff (DFA 150-450 etc)..... but, in the end did buy it where my interest/needs meet.... so maybe Pentax have their pricing set about right for people like me (I have money to some degree.... but only because I'm somewhat thrifty in a lot of ways... ie a bit of a tight arse).

Anyway, I really can imagine it being a difficult position to be in to be Pentax based as one transitions to being a proffesional photographer..... especially if ones hobby or interest has taken them down the road where the equipment you love begins to be wanting for the new place you find yourself in. I would not hesitate to transition to other tools as funds permitted if this was the case.... and I think you are probally right regarding the Knew being one of the last hopes in this case for you.

Anyway, pentax managed to get me past the $1,000 mark for a prime (FA31) and the $2,000 mark for a zoom (150-450).... so who knows where they will take me next.... however.... they can't sell me an 85/1.4 pretty well much at any price because I just don't have any use for one... but that is to be expected for a lot of us as it is a bit of a niche lens.

Anyway, I enjoy your contributions and appreciate your position.

Thank you.

Actually that is not true either. Giving professional grade gear will open that door, regardless of what gear one is now using. This might not be a loads of professionals coming, but it does still open that possibility. And that is what is important. And also it is important for Pentax fans. Some might even return for these lenses, and if Ricoh throws a nice updated camera models on top. And that is about that.

That's my point, 'if'... I worry that by the time the cogs of Pentax revolve and there is now a K-2, it too will be old tech compared to other brands and worse... maybe even better 85's on the market. Time doesn't stand still, and I see this as Pentax's major foe.

[zapp]

Now that all the specs are known, price becomes an issue. Wait some time for rebates. The price at introduction is justified judging by virtual material and specs.
The lens diagram shows a close relation to the Otus. Concavity of the front lens is more pronounced, a design feature we know from Leica and Zeiss. This is not a derivative of the FA85, it really marks a new and serious design.
Pay the full price now, wait 6-12 months for a rebate, go for the 77....

[Class A]

Anyone care to suggest why the lens might better the FA 77mm Limited, especially for portraits - on FF?

42% more background blur.

Higher resolution, better CA control, less PF, better consistency across the frame.

Weather-sealing and quiet operation will be important to some.

[repaap]

That's my point, 'if'... I worry that by the time the cogs of Pentax revolve and there is now a K-2, it too will be old tech compared to other brands and worse... maybe even better 85's on the market. Time doesn't stand still, and I see this as Pentax's major foe.

Time does not stand still, and what they(Pen/coh) is doing, I'd say is pretty much putting on he table the things, what they have and what is there with competition. That has been said for DFA*85 and I'd believe that it is the case with the rest what is on the table right now. Problem with Pentax has always been that they get the tech latest, and they tune it to match. But they have just used old tech and updated it. They said couple of yrs. a go that this(K-1 & K-P) is the best AF what we can do with the system what we have. It did came to it's end. They had to really do what they did with *85. This is what they said that they are going to do now(back then) and now we hope to see a new system, which they could then update a bit by bit to keep up with tech.


I'd be really happy if they do come up with that. I have been shooting events too. And I have good understanding of my gear, but sometimes I had trouble to concentrate, because I was thinking of IF my gear will be able to help me in demanding situations to get the AF right. Lot of event phototgraphy is not that demanding, but some brief moments, you have to nail(like having he guy who pays your invoice to be presented well at the right moment(Say that you nailed that shot) has made me thinking of change my gear. To something with a great video too, while I'm at it. This is what I have been going through as well. I'v bought video cameras now so that is off my shoulders and that is completelly different beast to handle, or actually learn, be careful what you ask for ... Now there is this thing of event photography still. I know that DFA*70-200 will serve me well in the future too. I'm closely looking of what will happen with K-New(heck if it is great I'might even buy it fo fast pace shooting at events, travel camera, ... ). This DFA*85 is going to be one more of 'those' things what can get me sorted in many ways, not just my taking creamy sharp, and perfect family photos.


This will be however kind a lens where great AF is going to be appriciated. I'm not going to need Eye AF, great if it is there, but more reliable AF with smaller AF points would be great.

[BarryE]

Thanks for the 77 v 85 comparison comments. In summary, then expect a more clinical, "accurate", modern lens. Maybe the 85 will have less "character" = "flaws".

Personally, I'm pleased that Ricoh are producing this expensive lens as it shows commitment to the brand, and confidence. Ricoh's marketing seem to be thinking long term and not jumping around chasing trends.

We've an extensive range of lenses of varying, quality and performance anyway, though perhaps a bit weak in the wider, primes at the moment. (Yes, I know this is to come). Many of the "weaker" lenses are only slightly weaker when measured against, test charts - in normal use, these weaknesses are not apparent. Knowing, this and knowing how to handle them is key. However, sometimes perfection is desired and it seems Pentax is aiming for that too, with these new, expensive pieces of glass.

[angerdan]

Incorrect actually. It's a KAF4 mount so can only be used on K-3/K-50 and newer.

I'm correct, you're the one who's wrong. I said it can be used on every PK-mount camera.
You mean something different, the support of all functions. With very few cameras aperture control isn't possible.

[Sandy Hancock]

I'm correct, you're the one who's wrong. I said it can be used on every PK-mount camera.
You mean something different, the support of all functions. With very few cameras aperture control isn't possible.

Come on Chris, now you're arguing just for the sake of it.

"Can be used" (but only at one aperture) hardly counts as useful.

No one in their right mind would buy a KAF4 lens to use on an older body (of which there are many thousands, not "very few").

[Serkevan]

I'm correct, you're the one who's wrong. I said it can be used on every PK-mount camera.
You mean something different, the support of all functions. With very few cameras aperture control isn't possible.

Technically correct but it's also practically incorrect. Using an f/1.4 lens in broad daylight is a guarantee of blown highlights.
And considering the history of PK-mount cameras, you are absolutely wrong: with very few cameras is aperture control possible

[Kunzite]

And considering the history of PK-mount cameras, you are absolutely wrong: with very few cameras is aperture control possible

I cannot see many people buying this lens for an APS-C camera.
From those who would, I cannot see many of them would afford it yet be unable to upgrade from K-5IIs or older cameras.
And I don't think there will be a single person wishing to buy it for an *istD-series camera.

[Coiseam]

Please note this is not a Pentax is doomed piece, just curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for your analysis! Your way of thinking here is close to mine.

To start with, each of us can answer these 3 questions:

1. How have I bought Pentax
2. Why (on Earth) am I still using it?
3. If I was given tons of money, would I stay with Pentax or switch the system?

6 years ago in May I got my first "serious" camera, and that was Pentax K-5 ii s + DA 18-135. For money I had I could buy either new APS-C offerings from Canon / Nikon or may be even a used full-frame like 6D with some used prime, but I was young still with hair on my head, afraid of buying a second-hand camera and did't understand using primes. My main reasons for Pentax were:

• Durability. Mechanical things don't live long and prosper in my hands and Pentax is forgiving.
• Colour science. Pentax has that natural and neutral colours many of us like so much.
• Lenses rendering. I love that Pentax kind of rendering and just can't make myself love some other kinds that look different (sorry, Fuji).

After 6 years I'm still there, with K-1, 3 Zeiss lenses and 2 of 3 FA lims in direct access (thanks to an ex-colleague who gives me his 77 when I need it). I don't think it's an unique story, guess many of us think and feel more or less similar.

Trying to think like Pentax reps, I guess their main goals were (at the time of K-1 entering the market) these:

• Keep current Pentax users in the camp. In order to succeed they had to offer the same basic functionality that could be found with other brands, so we got 3 new "holy trinity" zooms and a 150-450. D FA * series lies within the same strategy: to offer modern, technically perfect, clinical lenses sharp as... something not always associated with sharpness wide open. Something like Sigma Art (buy the way, is there anything artistic about them?) but with Pentax weather sealing and coating. So we have a really perfect lens (by the way, DPReview sample gallery with D FA * 50 was one of their best that year) that now costs less than many of competitors (look at Canon R 50 1.2 and Panasonic 50 1.4 prices). And the fact that shots with it are a bit dull and practically indistinguishable with its rivals - well, we live in tough times. From the other hand, I don't think these modern lenses will attract many new users to Pentax camp because they can be found just everywhere, they just don't have to buy Pentax to shoot with them.
• Attract new users. As I see it, Pentax should offer something unique, which cannot be found elsewhere. Here we have that mix of durability and Pentax colours I wrote about which are still there, and one of the components of this are FA lims which give that look and rendering so many of us love so much. Here we have an announcement of D FA 21 lim, I hope new versions of 3 current lims will follow plus something like D FA 115 (+- 20) lim. I'm just very glad that they understand the need of lims development.

And in the end here are some critical thoughts on Pentax strategy and opinions of fellow forum members:

• I see Pentax audience to be primary enthusiasts like me fallen in love with Pentax colours and rendering, landscape / astro photographers and travel photographers (both camera and lenses can survive jungles, salty water drops, sands and so on). But 1 new dedicated landscape lens for the last 5 years (a 15-30 zoom) is not a nice marketing move. In a year or 2 we will have a D FA 21 lim, thanks for that. But for wider primes you need to buy something from 3rd party manufacturers like Samyang of Irix... With Canon, Nikon and Sony you have more native options and / or high quality primes from Sigma (autofocus), Zeiss and modern Samyangs. And also now there's Panasonic on the market with practically Pentax philosophy (robust built, high quality cameras and lenses, natural colours, weird autofocus system) pared with Sigma lenses for L mount.
• Lens lines. It's an interesting situation here, with any other manufacturer there's a choice between modern 1.2-1.4 primes and modern 1.8 primes. With Pentax there's a choice between modern 1.4 primes and film era like 1.8 primes (lims), and I don't think there will be a line of (relatively) cheap modern 1.8 prime offerings from Pentax in near future. Personally I don't see any problems here.
• K-1 as an all-around camera. In my opinion, one is not. You can shot everything with K-1 including sport, flying birds and so on, but there are other offering on the market at more or less the same price point that have better autofocus, buffer, video and in general make life easier than with K-1. I would rather name Sony A7 iii and Nikon Z6 as all around cameras.
• Lens selection. Sony is the best, Canon and (may be) Nikon will follow soon with modern Sigmas and Samyangs available for them, also you can mount practically everything with manual focus on mirrirless cameras (there's even Sony E to Nikon Z adapter to mount loxias and Voigtländers on Nikons). From the other hand, no adapter to mount Pentax lenses to something else with autofocus.
• Price point. With Pentax - practically no 3rd party offerings and no cheap (like 1.8 primes) native lenses. On the other hand, now D FA * 50 costs less than competitors, hope in a year after D FA * 85 enters the market it will be the same with it, too. But man, for something like 1000 USD you can buy 3 modern Samyang primes for Sony E (75, 45 and something like 24) altogether. Full frame and autofocus. These lenses resembles greatly DA lims for Pentax APS-C - compact, modern and nice (and not with the widest apperture possible). So Pentax are either for these for like lenses with character like lims or these who need and can afford the best figh quality modern optics. For these who need modern but not pricy lenses like 1.8 primes - they'd better go with Sony or Canon or Nikon. That's the reality.

[Sandy Hancock]

Can I remind those wishing to contribute to this thread that it is about the DFA* 85/1.4, not about the merits of switching to other brands?

It's getting tiresome, and thread bans and other infractions will ensue.